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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
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    Thierry Henry wasnít shunted out to the left. He was signed as a winger and shunted into the middle. He was also 10 years younger than Aubameyang is now. Not even remotely comparable
    He was famous for drifting to the left and cutting inside. Obv. He played in a different system but Auba is not being played as an orthodox winger either.

    You seem determined to play down the mans qualities, which of course is your right, but I think you are doing him a dis-service suggesting heís been punted to the left wing to try and some how accommodate his flaws. To me itís a gross mis representation of how heís being played and why. His goal scoring record speaks for itself in terms of his quality.

    But we can agree on one thing, Henry was better!


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member Winston Ingram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    He was famous for drifting to the left and cutting inside. Obv. He played in a different system but Auba is not being played as an orthodox winger either.

    You seem determined to play down the mans qualities, which of course is your right, but I think you are doing him a dis-service suggesting he’s been punted to the left wing to try and some how accommodate his flaws. To me it’s a gross mis representation of how he’s being played and why. His goal scoring record speaks for itself in terms of his quality.

    But we can agree on one thing, Henry was better!
    He may have drifted to the left but again, not even remotely comparable. He was their sole striker. He also drifted over to the right plenty and allowed Ljungberg to come in. His hold up play was fantastic.

    As for playing as an orthodox winger, he absolutely is. One thing he’s doing brilliantly in that position is tracking his fullback and protecting Tierney.

    As for playing down his qualities, I’m acknowledging them but highlighting a major flaw he has in his game. He can’t possibly be seen as a being in the top 3 no 9’s when he isn’t very good at arguably the most important part of the role outside goalscoring.
    Last edited by Winston Ingram; 04-08-2020 at 06:13 AM.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
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    He may have drifted to the left but again, not even remotely comparable. He was their sole striker. He also drifted over to the right plenty and allowed Ljungberg to come in. His hold up play was fantastic.

    As for playing as an orthodox winger, he absolutely is. One thing heís doing brilliantly in that position is tracking his fullback and protecting Tierney.

    As for playing down his qualities, Iím acknowledging them but highlighting a major flaw he has in his game. He canít possibly be seen as a being in the top 3 no 9ís when he isnít very good at arguably the most important part of the role outside goalscoring.
    Honestly Iím confused that you think heís playing an orthodox left winger...and even if you do think his current position is as a left winger you are also just focussing in his recent position. Have a look at the following and tell me heís playing / played as an orthodox left winger during his Arsenal career.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xXBgaS-ORoM

    But it does seem you want your number 9 to excel at hold up play as well as goal scoring...Iím not sure you find that in many players to be honest. But maybe we are arguing over nothing as Iím not really trying to put him in a top 3 of anything.

    The fact is though he would be able to play for almost any top team in Europe and thatís good enough for me to convince me of his qualities, hold up play ability or not!

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
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    He may have drifted to the left but again, not even remotely comparable. He was their sole striker. He also drifted over to the right plenty and allowed Ljungberg to come in. His hold up play was fantastic.

    As for playing as an orthodox winger, he absolutely is. One thing heís doing brilliantly in that position is tracking his fullback and protecting Tierney.

    As for playing down his qualities, Iím acknowledging them but highlighting a major flaw he has in his game. He canít possibly be seen as a being in the top 3 no 9ís when he isnít very good at arguably the most important part of the role outside goalscoring.
    You don't seem to understand that a player can make up for flaws in his game by having other vital strenths. Not being able to hold up the ball doesn't automatically mean he can never be one of the best players. His pace and versatility are things that very few other players have.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
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    He may have drifted to the left but again, not even remotely comparable. He was their sole striker. He also drifted over to the right plenty and allowed Ljungberg to come in. His hold up play was fantastic.

    As for playing as an orthodox winger, he absolutely is. One thing heís doing brilliantly in that position is tracking his fullback and protecting Tierney.

    As for playing down his qualities, Iím acknowledging them but highlighting a major flaw he has in his game. He canít possibly be seen as a being in the top 3 no 9ís when he isnít very good at arguably the most important part of the role outside goalscoring.
    A certain No 9 at Liverpool is one of the best in the business 😉

  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member Winston Ingram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Honestly Iím confused that you think heís playing an orthodox left winger...and even if you do think his current position is as a left winger you are also just focussing in his recent position. Have a look at the following and tell me heís playing / played as an orthodox left winger during his Arsenal career.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xXBgaS-ORoM

    But it does seem you want your number 9 to excel at hold up play as well as goal scoring...Iím not sure you find that in many players to be honest. But maybe we are arguing over nothing as Iím not really trying to put him in a top 3 of anything.

    The fact is though he would be able to play for almost any top team in Europe and thatís good enough for me to convince me of his qualities, hold up play ability or not!
    He's undoubtedly playing as winger and has done for the vast majority of this season and for almost the entirety of the second half of the season. He did play CF prior to that but have moved him because he can't carry out a key aspect of the role to a decent standard.

    I absolutely agree you won't find it in many players but you can when you're talking about the creme de la creme

  8. #67
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    This is one of the most interesting threads I've read on the main board in a long time. Genuinely engaging to read how different people can view the same players, aspects of the game, the importance of certain attributes etc.

    The "left-winger" point is particularly interesting. I would never have described the position PEA has been playing recently as left-wing; however, the more I think about the more I think it might be an accurate tag to give it. Out of interest, what position would folk on here say Mane plays for Liverpool?

    Everyone seems to be in agreement that PEA is a quality player, but I think the original question which sparked the debate is whether he's in the "top three strikers in the World at the moment". I suppose that's still open to personal interpretation but, for me, he's clearly top 10, possibly top 5 but not top 3. Again, it would be interesting to read who folk on here would have in their top 5?

  9. #68
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
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    He's undoubtedly playing as winger and has done for the vast majority of this season and for almost the entirety of the second half of the season. He did play CF prior to that but have moved him because he can't carry out a key aspect of the role to a decent standard.

    I absolutely agree you won't find it in many players but you can when you're talking about the creme de la creme
    Isnít he playing in a similar role to Mane at Liverpool? Not a winger as such but a striker deployed to the left of an attacking three?

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Isn’t he playing in a similar role to Mane at Liverpool? Not a winger as such but a striker deployed to the left of an attacking three?
    Great minds.

    I was going to describe Mane as a left-sided forward, but I think that misrepresents the work he does when Liverpool aren't in possession.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    Great minds.

    I was going to describe Mane as a left-sided forward, but I think that misrepresents the work he does when Liverpool aren't in possession.
    Whoops, busted for not reading all contributions I do think itís a relevant distinction though. The Mane or Aubamayeng role is totally removed from your Chris Waddle/Davie Cooper tied to the touch line kind of winger to be unrecognizable.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    This is one of the most interesting threads I've read on the main board in a long time. Genuinely engaging to read how different people can view the same players, aspects of the game, the importance of certain attributes etc.

    The "left-winger" point is particularly interesting. I would never have described the position PEA has been playing recently as left-wing; however, the more I think about the more I think it might be an accurate tag to give it. Out of interest, what position would folk on here say Mane plays for Liverpool?

    Everyone seems to be in agreement that PEA is a quality player, but I think the original question which sparked the debate is whether he's in the "top three strikers in the World at the moment". I suppose that's still open to personal interpretation but, for me, he's clearly top 10, possibly top 5 but not top 3. Again, it would be interesting to read who folk on here would have in their top 5?
    Lewandowski Mbappť for definite as my top two. If you want proven demonstrable ability over 10 years, Iíd say Benzema at #3, but Haaland also in the discussion for what he was doing prior to Covid. I tend to agree Aubameyang is probably top 5 in the world but part of a closely packed group.

  13. #72
    I donít think heís played left wing once for arsenal, as I donít think arsenal (or many other teams these days) play with wingers.

    But thatís based on my interpretation of the term winger... maybe itís moved on and so should I!

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    You donít have to play for the top teams to be world class of course but I do wonder why (so far) Dortmund & Arsenal are the biggest teams he has played for. Two big clubs, but probably a level slightly below the likes of Bayern, Barcelona or Real and I wonder why they have never bought him before. He is world class, but thereís probably sub categories within that definition and Iíd probably put him in the category slightly below the one Lewandowski, for example, is in.

  15. #74
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    You donít have to play for the top teams to be world class of course but I do wonder why (so far) Dortmund & Arsenal are the biggest teams he has played for. Two big clubs, but probably a level slightly below the likes of Bayern, Barcelona or Real and I wonder why they have never bought him before. He is world class, but thereís probably sub categories within that definition and Iíd probably put him in the category slightly below the one Lewandowski, for example, is in.
    There was definite chat that he liked his late nights in Germany.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    You donít have to play for the top teams to be world class of course but I do wonder why (so far) Dortmund & Arsenal are the biggest teams he has played for. Two big clubs, but probably a level slightly below the likes of Bayern, Barcelona or Real and I wonder why they have never bought him before. He is world class, but thereís probably sub categories within that definition and Iíd probably put him in the category slightly below the one Lewandowski, for example, is in.
    Thing is, it really can be just as simple as those 3 having had quality strikers for years now, basically Aubameyangs entire career. Benzema is the perfect striker for Real, is an absolutely wonderful football and has won everything there. Lewandowski cost Bayern nothing and has just scored over 40 goals for the 5th season running. Barcelona have Suarez and as well as being a brilliant player, he is Messis best mate.

    That is really the reason he hasn't quite reached those clubs. None of them needed a striker for at least 6 years.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Thing is, it really can be just as simple as those 3 having had quality strikers for years now, basically Aubameyangs entire career. Benzema is the perfect striker for Real, is an absolutely wonderful football and has won everything there. Lewandowski cost Bayern nothing and has just scored over 40 goals for the 5th season running. Barcelona have Suarez and as well as being a brilliant player, he is Messis best mate.

    That is really the reason he hasn't quite reached those clubs. None of them needed a striker for at least 6 years.
    In the last few seasons Real have signed Hazard & Jovic, & Barcelona have signed Dembele & Griezman. So itís not like those clubs havenít been in the market for strikers in recent times.

    Anyway, as I said above not having played for those clubs doesnít mean someone canít be world class.

  18. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    In the last few seasons Real have signed Hazard & Jovic, & Barcelona have signed Dembele & Griezman. So itís not like those clubs havenít been in the market for strikers in recent times.

    Anyway, as I said above not having played for those clubs doesnít mean someone canít be world class.
    Hazard and Dembele are totally different players to Aubameyang. Not really comparable at all. Jovic is nearly 10 years younger, obvious that Real wanted a long term replacement for Benzema. Griezmann has been a pretty awful signing for Barcelona, they would actually have been better getting Aubameyang (who was linked)

    I know that of course, its just that none of those clubs signing him made sense over the last 6/7 years.

  19. #78
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Whoops, busted for not reading all contributions I do think it’s a relevant distinction though. The Mane or Aubamayeng role is totally removed from your Chris Waddle/Davie Cooper tied to the touch line kind of winger to be unrecognizable.

    Man City, Liverpool Man U all play with 3 up top with no recognised wingers, they're all inside forwards cutting in onto their stronger foot, that's not to say they don't ever go past their man but all these teams have attacking wingbacks to play the wide role, just look at the number of assists from Robertson and Alexander-Arnold. Wolves use the attacking wingbacks but play with a back 3.

  20. #79
    PEA is good but its not even an argument who the best striker in the world is. Lewandoski by a country mile

  21. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameronw-hfc View Post
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    PEA is good but its not even an argument who the best striker in the world is. Lewandoski by a country mile
    Madness he missed out on the Ballon Díor, his numbers this past season were crazy.

    Brilliant player.

  22. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip View Post
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    Madness he missed out on the Ballon Díor, his numbers this past season were crazy.

    Brilliant player.
    Messis are just as crazy tbh.

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