Hearts' arrogance Mk II

[147lothian]

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I find that this is the narrative that people who come to Edinburgh to live latch on to because they are wooed by its simplicity. As someone who grew up in Edinburgh and attended an “establishment” school, I can say that the true establishment looked down on football regardless of what team you supported. However there were plenty of Hibs fans from very well to do families and plenty of Hearts fans who were there through charitable free places, especially those from out in the Jambo hotbeds of the former mining villages in Midlothian. I would never say I have an idea that Hibs fans are better off than hearts fans because of that though, because it’s completely anecdotal. I’d say that it’s a weird thing to make a point about.

A more likely explanation for hearts’ fans yearning for superiority is that they are projecting a deep felt, burning sense of inferiority from having not won a trophy for 30+ years prior to 98, and then having the delusions of grandeur of the Romanov years being overlaid upon that, only for that to be whipped away again with the final insult of us having the most memorable Scottish cup win in recent history, all but negating their jaded cup win in 2012.

A good post, this thread was going on a wayward trajectory due to some attaching too much meaning to things IMO, its worth remembering that 'in your Glasgow slums' was sung to both Rangers and Celtic fans in the 70's because there really was slums in these days, ironically there were also slums in Edinburgh at that time but thats football fans for you.

[Tobias Funke]

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I read your OP last night and I must confess I was expecting to see an apology to your fellow HIBS supporters on these threads this morning but obviously you have not sobered up yet?

Calling us undernourished and poor ?

I started following HIBS in the sixties and my memory of that era is that no one had a great deal of money but I would like to think through time we have all prospered and benefited through improvements in society, advances in technology, health, income and as a consequence standards of living and disposable income have improved dramatically.

I am not conscious of the average Hearts fan being any better or worse off than the average HIBS fan and I certainly do not remember standing beside any peasants in the HIBS end at Murrayfield versus Barcelona As another poster pointed out it was mostly neutral fans which I am sure would have been the same at Hearts v Barca

One of the most profoundly bizarre posts I’ve read on here, came from absolutely nowhere and totally irrelevant to the topic in my opinion. Quite right to call them out 👍🏼

[Hibs4185]

I always laugh at hearts and the big team establishment crap.

Drive through Gorgie and Dalry, it’s an absolute dump nowadays. My mum lived in Gorgie for years and she can’t believe how bad it is.

Compare to leith with vibrant pubs, Michelin star restaurants, ocean terminal etc.

I know which part of the city is the place to be and it ain’t that *hithole.

[EdinMike]

I saw the original thread this morning and not to restart that whole debacle. Growing up in the west of Edinburgh In the 90s most of my Hearts friends were (to bring back a 90s term) council house scaffs.

Did I care then ?! Nope. Do I care now ?! Nope. People are people.

[theonlywayisup]

I always recall that in the early 90s, the Hertz fans were always smug about "22 in a row", wee Robbo etc. However, you could always throw back comments that they hadn't won anything since 1962.

That all changed in 1996.

On the day prior to the cup final, I recall the DR printed a list of all the teams that had won trophies since Hertz had won their last one.

Celtic
Rangers
Aberdeen
Dundee United
Hibernian
Raith Rovers
Partick thistle
Dunfermline
Dundee
St Mirren
Kilmarnock

However, once they beat Rangers suddenly their supremacy seemed to take on new levels.

[nonshinyfinish]

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I always recall that in the early 90s, the Hertz fans were always smug about "22 in a row", wee Robbo etc. However, you could always throw back comments that they hadn't won anything since 1962.

That all changed in 1996.

You mean when Oldco "killed them as a club"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Scottish_Cup_Final

[Jones28]

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I always laugh at hearts and the big team establishment crap.

Drive through Gorgie and Dalry, it’s an absolute dump nowadays. My mum lived in Gorgie for years and she can’t believe how bad it is.

Compare to leith with vibrant pubs, Michelin star restaurants, ocean terminal etc.

I know which part of the city is the place to be and it ain’t that *hithole.

It’s a hovel. It’s like Leith 40 years ago.

[theonlywayisup]

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You mean when Oldco "killed them as a club"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Scottish_Cup_Final

Ooops! Did I get the year wrong? Was it 1998?

[Since452]

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You mean when Oldco "killed them as a club"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Scottish_Cup_Final

37k crowd. What was that all about? Hampden renovation?

[Hibees1973]

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I find that this is the narrative that people who come to Edinburgh to live latch on to because they are wooed by its simplicity. As someone who grew up in Edinburgh and attended an “establishment” school, I can say that the true establishment looked down on football regardless of what team you supported. However there were plenty of Hibs fans from very well to do families and plenty of Hearts fans who were there through charitable free places, especially those from out in the Jambo hotbeds of the former mining villages in Midlothian. I would never say I have an idea that Hibs fans are better off than hearts fans because of that though, because it’s completely anecdotal. I’d say that it’s a weird thing to make a point about.

A more likely explanation for hearts’ fans yearning for superiority is that they are projecting a deep felt, burning sense of inferiority from having not won a trophy for 30+ years prior to 98, and then having the delusions of grandeur of the Romanov years being overlaid upon that, only for that to be whipped away again with the final insult of us having the most memorable Scottish cup win in recent history, all but negating their jaded cup win in 2012.

Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head for their misguided arrogance. Prior to 1998 they won nothing for almost 30 years. Within this time they spent around a decade yo-young between divisions.

Then the pieman took over from Mercer in the mid 90s and started to rack up massive debts, which increased further when the Lithuanian crook took over. The SFA/SPFLs governance then was even worse than now allowing Hearts to launder money from abroad and miss salary payments to players. As I said, they won nothing for around 30 years prior to 1998, then 3 Scottish Cups appear during the time massive debts increased.

Surely even the most dyed in the wool Yam would accept these cups would never have been won with expensive players paid by laundered money.

These recent cup wins are the source of this new found arrogance. Also, they have sailed so close to being defunct they probably believe they could survive anything. For example, using this pandemic to bin underperforming players and avoid relegation.

[Since452]

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I always recall that in the early 90s, the Hertz fans were always smug about "22 in a row", wee Robbo etc. However, you could always throw back comments that they hadn't won anything since 1962.

That all changed in 1996.

On the day prior to the cup final, I recall the DR printed a list of all the teams that had won trophies since Hertz had won their last one.

Celtic
Rangers
Aberdeen
Dundee United
Hibernian
Raith Rovers
Partick thistle
Dunfermline
Dundee
St Mirren
Kilmarnock

However, once they beat Rangers suddenly their supremacy seemed to take on new levels.

Still haven't won the league cup since 1962 though. How embarrassing.

[Eyrie]

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Still haven't won the league cup since 1962 though. How embarrassing.

That's unfair - they're a lower league club

[Iggy Pope]

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It’s a hovel. It’s like Leith 40 years ago.

Leith wasn’t a hovel at anytime never mind 1980.

[Islington Hibs]

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I find that this is the narrative that people who come to Edinburgh to live latch on to because they are wooed by its simplicity. As someone who grew up in Edinburgh and attended an “establishment” school, I can say that the true establishment looked down on football regardless of what team you supported. However there were plenty of Hibs fans from very well to do families and plenty of Hearts fans who were there through charitable free places, especially those from out in the Jambo hotbeds of the former mining villages in Midlothian. I would never say I have an idea that Hibs fans are better off than hearts fans because of that though, because it’s completely anecdotal. I’d say that it’s a weird thing to make a point about.

A more likely explanation for hearts’ fans yearning for superiority is that they are projecting a deep felt, burning sense of inferiority from having not won a trophy for 30+ years prior to 98, and then having the delusions of grandeur of the Romanov years being overlaid upon that, only for that to be whipped away again with the final insult of us having the most memorable Scottish cup win in recent history, all but negating their jaded cup win in 2012.

I went to a similar school by the sounds of it and your comments are similar to my observations. Football was looked down on but in the 70’s Hibs fans outnumbered Hearts fans by probably 3-1 of those interested in football, which was a minority.

I think there may be a perception that Hearts are the establishment team y no football types but I don’t think it is true. Seems to me both clubs have the full spectrum of society. Clearly there are some geographic biases and family ties but I would say Hibs have probably slightly grown their ‘share’ of the market over the last decade or so..

There is no doubt Hears consider themselves top dogs which to be honest is pretty delusional.. The gap is between Celtic and Rangers not between Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen.

[Iggy Pope]

If anyone has the time or the inclination, there is an old book out there, ‘The Hearts’ written by Albert Mackie.
It was a book produced during their late 50s / very early 60s pomp and is very informative and well illustrated. I used to own a copy but I gave it to a Hearts **** mate of mine during my teens. He’s still my mate.

However, in it Mackie acknowledges that while Hibs and Hearts are alliterative and rivalrous, Hibs were very much the men of pints of porter and Hearts were the sort of pink gins.
Navvies and the polis you might think. White collars and nae collar.

It was the way people thought before these enlightened times and factually, it was probably accurate for most of last century and some of the one before. I for one remain proud about that. Not sure if the auld Hearts worthies of the working class schemes and environs of Broomhouse, Stenhouse, Saughton Mains, Oxgangs and the like thought they were much better than anyone though.

These modern times? I am incredulous that anyone at all would entertain the notion that Hearts are “better dressed”.

[James Stephen]

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If anyone has the time or the inclination, there is an old book out there, ‘The Hearts’ written by Albert Mackie.
It was a book produced during their late 50s / very early 60s pomp and is very informative and well illustrated. I used to own a copy but I gave it to a Hearts **** mate of mine during my teens. He’s still my mate.

However, in it Mackie acknowledges that while Hibs and Hearts are alliterative and rivalrous, Hibs were very much the men of pints of porter and Hearts were the sort of pink gins.
Navvies and the polis you might think. White collars and nae collar.

It was the way people thought before these enlightened times and factually, it was probably accurate for most of last century and some of the one before. I for one remain proud about that. Not sure if the auld Hearts worthies of the working class schemes and environs of Broomhouse, Stenhouse, Saughton Mains, Oxgangs and the like thought they were much better than anyone though.

These modern times? I am incredulous that anyone at all would entertain the notion that Hearts are “better dressed”.

Bizarrely, i have just finished reading my faither in law's copy of this.

Its a fascinating read, and it really does give a brilliant insight into both the time it was written (late 50s) and the times prior.

There is no doubt Hearts did, and do, see themselves as the edinburgh club. There is even a line in the book about (and i paraphrase) that few, even hibs fans, would argue that hearts are Edinburgh's darlings.

Its almost certainly rooted in religion, ethnicity, and social class, and when you throw in the Leith / Edinburgh angle, its easy to see how Hibs were the outsiders.

[HoboHarry]

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I’ve been around a while, so Filipino Hibs’ comments, although bollox didn’t offend me.

However next time I visit Easter Road though, I’ll make sure that my Butler
has my dinner suit laid out��

Mind and get it back to the pawn shop when you're done 😜

[Brizo]

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If anyone has the time or the inclination, there is an old book out there, ‘The Hearts’ written by Albert Mackie.
It was a book produced during their late 50s / very early 60s pomp and is very informative and well illustrated. I used to own a copy but I gave it to a Hearts **** mate of mine during my teens. He’s still my mate.

However, in it Mackie acknowledges that while Hibs and Hearts are alliterative and rivalrous, Hibs were very much the men of pints of porter and Hearts were the sort of pink gins.
Navvies and the polis you might think. White collars and nae collar.

It was the way people thought before these enlightened times and factually, it was probably accurate for most of last century and some of the one before. I for one remain proud about that. Not sure if the auld Hearts worthies of the working class schemes and environs of Broomhouse, Stenhouse, Saughton Mains, Oxgangs and the like thought they were much better than anyone though.

These modern times? I am incredulous that anyone at all would entertain the notion that Hearts are “better dressed”.

Albert Mackie is a blast from the past. He had a diary style column in the Scotsman back in the 80s and 90s and a lot of it revolved around life in Morningside and Bruntsfield and he sometimes mentioned Hearts. He was the type of bunnet, shirt and tie, car coat, wee Edinburgh man you used to see a lot but don't nowadays. Amusing guy who played up his own stereotype.

In my lifetime the Hearts fans have been no different in social class from us but maybe there is some residual "establishment" mentality from earlier times which feeds into their arrogance and sense of entitlement. That sense of extreme self importance can't come from the Tynie match day experience which seems to involve agricultural football played in front of an audience dressed by George at Asda ?

[greenpaper55]

When i was younger and working in the trades every foreman/ manager was a Hearts fan and many of them were members of the funny handshake fraternity if you know what i mean ? I think folk forget how powerful that organisation was and i think it still lingers today.

[WhileTheChief..]

Did the Masons every have any real power or influence?

I always thought they just gave a bloke an excuse to get out the house for a pint once a week for peace from the family!

[oneone73]

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Albert Mackie is a blast from the past. He had a diary style column in the Scotsman back in the 80s and 90s and a lot of it revolved around life in Morningside and Bruntsfield and he sometimes mentioned Hearts. He was the type of bunnet, shirt and tie, car coat, wee Edinburgh man you used to see a lot but don't nowadays. Amusing guy who played up his own stereotype.

In my lifetime the Hearts fans have been no different in social class from us but maybe there is some residual "establishment" mentality from earlier times which feeds into their arrogance and sense of entitlement. That sense of extreme self importance can't come from the Tynie match day experience which seems to involve agricultural football played in front of an audience dressed by George at Asda ?

Wasn't that Albert Morris?

[The Green Sea]

If Hibs had Hearts derby record over the last 40 years would we think were a bigger and better club than them. Probably. The reality in my 40 years supporting Hibs, we’ve both won 3 cups which when you look at that record we’re equally as s***e as each other. 120 major domestic trophies and we’ve won 6 in total in Edinburgh. Nothing to shout about really.

[The Count]

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Did the Masons every have any real power or influence?

I always thought they just gave a bloke an excuse to get out the house for a pint once a week for peace from the family!

Try getting promotion in certain well known Edinburgh companies pre 2000.

[MrSmith]

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Did the Masons every have any real power or influence?

I always thought they just gave a bloke an excuse to get out the house for a pint once a week for peace from the family!

they were a humanist society ruined by self serving types who see and use it in order to gain a professional & social advantage. In the west, the orange munters have infiltrated it. I'm not affiliated but my uncle always said, use it but don’t abuse it.

[Alfred E Newman]

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Leith wasn’t a hovel at anytime never mind 1980.

Aye, there is certainly some nonsense getting spouted on this thread.

[Keith_M]

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Aye, there is certainly some nonsense getting spouted on this thread.

[Keith_M]

I lived the first twenty+ years of my life (up to the early 90s) in a Lothians village that used to be one of many whose employment historically centred mostly around Mining, with lots of people that did seasonal work on farms. There were some small factories in the slightly larger towns, like Musselburgh and Dalkeith.

The people in those towns and villages in East and Mid-Lothian were almost all 'working class', with only the occasional area where some of the residents might be referred to as 'the middle classes'.

Support for football teams was fairly evenly split between Hibs, Hearts, Rangers and Celtc. All were equally from the same class of people and there was no visible divide in wealth or so-called class between groups based on which team they supported.

I had some friends and relatives in Edinburgh, all supporting Hibs or Hearts. I didn't see any difference in wealth or class divide between these people.


In essence, the claims some people are making on this thread sound like utter bolloks to me.

[KingPat4]

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Leith wasn’t a hovel at anytime never mind 1980.

Agreed. I am not having that either.

[KingPat4]

I'm not from Edinburgh or have any family connection. But I was drawn here by supporting Hibernian and have lived here for forty two years. Married a girl from the Southside and have three kids, who all support the club. Got two season tickets and about to sign up to HSL. I feel as if I was born in Leith and adore the place, the feel if it and it's rich history.

All this spoon burner, junkie, prozzie stuff of the past and present, never bothered me then or now, especially from Weegies who no right to comment.

My dislike of Hearts was pretty soft until Mercer, now it's off the scale. Embarrassment to football Edinburgh and Scotland. Poppy Thieves is now my answer to virtually any Jambo with a sense of entitlement, most of them, as there is little point of discussing things sensibly.

Let's remember, outside of Edinburgh, never mind the rest of Scotland or the UK, no one really cares about Hibs or Hearts and that's fine by me.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

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I always laugh at hearts and the big team establishment crap.

Drive through Gorgie and Dalry, it’s an absolute dump nowadays. My mum lived in Gorgie for years and she can’t believe how bad it is.

Compare to leith with vibrant pubs, Michelin star restaurants, ocean terminal etc.

I know which part of the city is the place to be and it ain’t that *hithole.

100% accurate

The whole hibs are spoon-burner hobos is an antiquated stereotype, best left back 30 years ago

But it still seems to be rolled out by the Huns and diet Huns at the drop of a hat

I always enjoy reminding them that Glasgow is the drug death capital of Europe

No Offence to any west/Glasgow based Hibees