Youth academy - disbanded?

[GreenCastle]

It’s rare that all the pitch space at East Mains is actually used. They may as well sell some of it for housing / sports village and make some ££ ?

Obviously keeping enough space for Hibs own interests and future development of say a full size indoor pitch.

The bit I can’t get my head round is the SFA award each clubs gold / silver etc and Academy is one of the criteria that they then get funding for. Also what’s the latest with project brave ? Another failed Scottish football initiative ?

[Ozyhibby]

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East Mains was built primarily for the first team.

Even doing away with "the Academy", we'd still have employees who dealt specifically with youngsters.

The bulk of the costs/overhead will be the same whether or not we run youth teams.

The success of the academy shouldn't be measured on player sales alone but also first team appearances. In saying that, the output have been fairly poor.

I think this is a weak point that Ron will look to improve in the future.

It needs sales. If it was just first team appearances then we can just buy players in that suit our needs.


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[Peevemor]

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It needs sales. If it was just first team appearances then we can just buy players in that suit our needs.


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Surely the idea is to attract and produce the best youngsters so that we don't have to shell out for them.

[Green_one]

People can spin this any way they like but it is obviously not good news. Reflects a very poor financial position and kills the dreams of a lot of wee boys. Leaves Edinburgh to the Jambos or what’s left of them

I personally think that it is a false economy, as it cannot cost all that much, attracts fan funding and produces the occasional incoming fee / player. Reducing the coaches etc. would have been my preference. I am sure some injured players could be used to help the youths.

If it is this bad then more pain is on its way.

[Brightside]

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It is a difficult balance , but I think clubs in general hold onto players for too long before releasing them.
I recall reading about clubs like Celtic in the 60's who would farm their young players out to junior clubs to toughen them up and see if they could step up from boys football to playing against men.

If Hibs dont run an academy , is there scope to have strategic alignment to community clubs and sponsor/provide off field support which will be mutually beneficial. Players who can step up at a young age, say 17/18 years old at EOS/Lowland league level , then get moved onto the next level in the pathway , say aged 18/19 at perhaps spending the next year on loan at a SPFL League 1 club or League of Ireland club under a development contract with Hibs and then moving into the Hibs squad the season after if they make the grade. If they are not making it at those levels at those ages , they dont move into the first team squad.
American clubs do something similar with feeder clubs where players are signed and played in minor leagues until they are ready or dropped if they cant step up , Hibs could do the same with a network of strategic alignments / partners.

Depending on the spread of these , it would also increase the scope of the scouting network.

Hibs should have a link up with many of the community clubs. Thats a no brainer. Help with coach education. Be ready to sign the players that are highlighted by those coaches at the appropriate time. It was suggested many times but its never happened. There really is no need for Hibs or any other team to be taking kids at 11 - 14 from community clubs. Just get the link up there to ensure they dont lose any of the talent.

[Ozyhibby]

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Surely the idea is to attract and produce the best youngsters so that we don't have to shell out for them.

We don’t pay transfer fees very often anyway. It’s costing a lot of money to run the academy and it’s not producing players.


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[Peevemor]

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We don’t pay transfer fees very often anyway. It’s costing a lot of money to run the academy and it’s not producing players.


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People keep saying that "it costs a lot of money" , but what are we spending specifically on the academy? I'm not looking for figures, but what sort of things could we save on?

[lucky]

The majority of fans are only interested in 1st results. This move focuses all our finances on the 1st for the next year. Our income is going to be around 50% of where it’s been so we need to cut our cloth accordingly. It was not that long ago that fans were wanting every penny spent on the 1st instead of infrastructure projects. Well there is going to be one project, having a 1st team on the pitch.

[Jones28]

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People keep saying that "it costs a lot of money" , but what are we spending specifically on the academy? I'm not looking for figures, but what sort of things could we save on?

There’s the coaching which I imagine would cost a fair whack. Each year group has 2/3 coaches from what I remember, plus the actual games need physios at £60 per game. There’s also the contribution to the maintenance of east mains itself, plus kits etc. It’s probably doesn’t add up to much, but it still costs.

[Ozyhibby]

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People keep saying that "it costs a lot of money" , but what are we spending specifically on the academy? I'm not looking for figures, but what sort of things could we save on?

We start taking kids at 8/9 year old. Each team has a couple of coaches. Think they earn about £600 a month. Then there is buses to take the kids round the country for games. Refs to pay. Sports science advice. Nutrition advice. Upkeep of the facility. All the admin involved in running that many kids teams. Child protection costs. There is more and I don’t know it all but I know it must be a lot of money.


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[Peevemor]

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There’s the coaching which I imagine would cost a fair whack. Each year group has 2/3 coaches from what I remember, plus the actual games need physios at £60 per game. There’s also the contribution to the maintenance of east mains itself, plus kits etc. It’s probably doesn’t add up to much, but it still costs.

That's my point. Say it costs £150k per year, probably the equivalent of a 1st team wage, is that a lot (relatively speaking)?

[Benji1]

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Hibs should have a link up with many of the community clubs. Thats a no brainer. Help with coach education. Be ready to sign the players that are highlighted by those coaches at the appropriate time. It was suggested many times but its never happened. There really is no need for Hibs or any other team to be taking kids at 11 - 14 from community clubs. Just get the link up there to ensure they dont lose any of the talent.

I agree, problem is that other clubs like celtic, rangers and hearts would snap these players up at that age and hibs would miss out. This is the only reason kids are picked up younger and younger these days.
For what your saying to work all clubs would have to the same thing and unfortunately thats not going to happen.

[Brightside]

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We start taking kids at 8/9 year old. Each team has a couple of coaches. Think they earn about £600 a month. Then there is buses to take the kids round the country for games. Refs to pay. Sports science advice. Nutrition advice. Upkeep of the facility. All the admin involved in running that many kids teams. Child protection costs. There is more and I don’t know it all but I know it must be a lot of money.


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Do we take kids at 8/9 at the academy? I really had no idea they were that young. I know the foundation does the young ones but thats not under Hibs financially.

[Brightside]

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I agree, problem is that other clubs like celtic, rangers and hearts would snap these players up at that age and hibs would miss out. This is the only reason kids are picked up younger and younger these days.
For what your saying to work all clubs would have to the same thing and unfortunately thats not going to happen.

Totally - the SFA need to change things. Instead of their Project brave nonsense.

[Jones28]

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That's my point. Say it costs £150k per year, probably the equivalent of a 1st team wage, is that a lot (relatively speaking)?

I think in the grand scheme of things it’s not, but at this time when every penny is a prisoner then maybe it has to be classed unnecessary.

[Peevemor]

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I think in the grand scheme of things it’s not, but at this time when every penny is a prisoner then maybe it has to be classed unnecessary.

I agree, above all when there's no football for the youth teams to play.

However there are a good few people who are for binning the academy altogether, quoting costs of £500k per year.

I don't believe it costs anything like that amount and, while we would all like to see more decent players coming through, I still think it's worth having.

[Duke of Currie]

Interesting comments today in the BBC about B Teams and strategic partnerships

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53092366

[matty_f]

It will be interesting to see, when the time comes, whether the academy is resumed as it was, or whether the club take the opportunity between now and then to totally remodel it seeing as we'll practically have a clean slate to work from. It could actually turn out to be a major opportunity for us.

[Lago]

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Interesting comments today in the BBC about B Teams and strategic partnerships

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53092366

I've just read the article & the piece about Brentford makes interesting reading.

[hibsbollah]

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Interesting comments today in the BBC about B Teams and strategic partnerships

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53092366

I was hearing about this; Brentford are going to be in pole position for the promotion run in because of the B team system, lots of fresh players, larger pool to choose from and there’s a belief that there will be a lot of soft tissue injuries in the next few weeks because of the covid shutdown and lots of games coming all at once.

But Brentford are a bit of a trailblazer for youth development and cutting edge coaching so their success might be just down to the club culture. Also you’d need the money to pay the extra players, not easy when everyone is struggling.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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People can spin this any way they like but it is obviously not good news. Reflects a very poor financial position and kills the dreams of a lot of wee boys. Leaves Edinburgh to the Jambos or what’s left of them

I personally think that it is a false economy, as it cannot cost all that much, attracts fan funding and produces the occasional incoming fee / player. Reducing the coaches etc. would have been my preference. I am sure some injured players could be used to help the youths.

If it is this bad then more pain is on its way.

the thought of hearts having a total monopoly on talented local kids makes me physically sick.

[Ozyhibby]

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Interesting comments today in the BBC about B Teams and strategic partnerships

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53092366

16 players for the first team in 4 years? Wow. Now that is a successful model.


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[Duke of Currie]

Would be interested to know from any of the posters on this site who understand the American sport set up if B/feeder teams are beneficial to both the progress of players and success of the parent club

[Ozyhibby]

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the thought of hearts having a total monopoly on talented local kids makes me physically sick.

The current model isn’t producing any talented local kids.
If you set up a system from 16 onwards you can afford to have better coaches and to offer kids better terms. Kids will then choose us over them.


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[bigwheel]

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The current model isn’t producing any talented local kids.
If you set up a system from 16 onwards you can afford to have better coaches and to offer kids better terms. Kids will then choose us over them.


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I agree our current model hasn’t delivered - but it would be very hard to get a kid, who is doing well with Hearts for a number of years, to come to us at 16..doesn’t feel like the solution to me

[NC1875]

Was speaking to a neighbour yesterday who’s son is part of the youth academy. He’s heard that Leanne is unhappy about us dropping it and is apparently set to be offered a role at the Huns.

Just passing on what I’ve heard, neighbour has no reason to lie about it. He’s also a hibby.

He also stated there was supposed to be another zoom call with Graeme Mathie today but hadn’t heard a thing.

[Andy74]

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Would be interested to know from any of the posters on this site who understand the American sport set up if B/feeder teams are beneficial to both the progress of players and success of the parent club

US sport is totally different.

Sports are part of the fabric of high school and college and are extremely popular spectator sports in their own rights at those levels.

Players are largely recruited and drafted through their college teams.

Then there are also minor leagues and franchises own teams there that they can send players out to develop or keep fresh for being brought in as replacements.

[Ozyhibby]

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I agree our current model hasn’t delivered - but it would be very hard to get a kid, who is doing well with Hearts for a number of years, to come to us at 16..doesn’t feel like the solution to me

I honestly don’t know what the solution is but I know the current model isn’t working. And it’s expensive.
It might not be nice to think about Hearts having their pick if the best 10 year olds but it might be nice to think we could use the money to bring in the best 19 year olds in the country every season.


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[davhibby]

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It will be interesting to see, when the time comes, whether the academy is resumed as it was, or whether the club take the opportunity between now and then to totally remodel it seeing as we'll practically have a clean slate to work from. It could actually turn out to be a major opportunity for us.

That’s what I’ve been thinking. Ron had been speaking a lot about how he wanted us to be producing players through the academy, maybe he’s seeing this as a good cost cutting measure for this year but also a chance to get rid of what is clearly a failing system. Gives us a good chance to do it differently once this season is out of the way and hopefully get it right this time

[hibsbollah]

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I honestly don’t know what the solution is but I know the current model isn’t working. And it’s expensive.
It might not be nice to think about Hearts having their pick if the best 10 year olds but it might be nice to think we could use the money to bring in the best 19 year olds in the country every season.


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Also needs to be remembered that the Brentford B team model isn’t specifically a youth set up, there are seasoned pros who can’t get first team action/recovering from injury in the B team as well.