hibs.net Messageboard

 

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 58 of 58

Thread: Revisionism

  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    7,833
    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Just read the new Tom English article on the Hearts relegation and reconstruction saga, the historical revisionism has already begun! We've seen this sort of thing before, Rangers liquidation being a prime example as that is a word rarely ever mentioned these days.

    Here's the article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53062777

    Two points I'll make on Tom English already changing the narrative:

    What we had on Monday was 26 of the 42 clubs who couldn't bring themselves to back a plan that would have spared three of their own members no end of misery, a plan that every last one of them would have supported had they been the one cast into the dismal plight of enforced relegation.
    Instead, they danced on the head of a pin for weeks, incapable of finding agreement on the number of clubs they wanted in each division or how many divisions or whether these divisions should be temporary or permanent. To paraphrase a line from Blackadder, in all of those discussions they made about as much progress as an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus. All of them said they had sympathy for the three clubs but if they did they had a strange way of showing it. Few, if any, of them thought it was fair that the three should suffer such a blow, but only a small number acted on those beliefs. The rest just declared the problem unsolvable and pulled the ladder up


    Here you can see he's creating a version of history that deflects from Hearts being the main instigators behind reconstruction, and instead is attaching blame to every other club. Whereas the vast majority of clubs have always rejected reconstruction, especially when more details have been clear to them.

    Because Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
    That's a lot harder to face up to if you're one of the clubs who has done them in. So nobody really wants to spend much time talking about Thistle because it's uncomfortable. Maybe there's a bit of guilt there. Better to divert and bombard Hearts instead. Safer ground, that.


    And here he creates another narrative, one of Hearts having the spotlight unwillingly thrust upon them by unscrupulous clubs. Tom English has written numerous articles covering this, I'd say he has been the biggest commentator on it. How many of his articles have centred on Hearts? How much coverage has he given to the other clubs?

    The truth here is Hearts have been the centre of attention as they have been the instigators of the story, they have been the driving force of all attempts at reconstruction and they have channeled their resources at being the focus of the story, the number of statements released to the press attests to that.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of a false narrative being carried forwards in years to come now, again something Hearts are no strangers to, St Liedown anyone?
    So much wrong with that article - but not unexpected. The way its worded is that reconstruction was the only option available. His biggest fault is implying that in order to save all three clubs, anybody with an ounce of decency would have voted in favour of this ludicrous 14 team league - on a permanent basis - yesterday. Why would anyone vote for that shambles just to save three teams? In every crisis there are losers. Thats how it is.

    The man is a clown and his reputation has bombed with the stance he’s taken since March. I have lost all respect for him and I’m not alone.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,403
    “ Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.”

    Let’s flip that one round, Tom. Had Ross County continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th, would Hearts, Anne Budge, yourself and all your media pals and the knuckle dragging Hearts fans be practicing what they’re preaching? Would they have voted for reconstruction to an absolutely terrible league set up that we’d be permanently stuck with?

    Would. They. ****.

    Also, the tears of Tom English are almost more beautiful than the tears of Hearts fans.
    Last edited by calumhibee1; 16-06-2020 at 06:01 PM.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    7,833
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    “ Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.”

    Let’s flip that one round, Tom. Had Ross County continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th, would Hearts, Anne Budge, yourself and all your media pals and the knuckle dragging Hearts fans be practicing what they’re preaching? Would they have voted for reconstruction to an absolutely terrible league set up that we’d be permanently stuck with?

    Would. They. ****.

    Also, the tears of Tom English are almost more beautiful than the tears of Hearts fans.
    100%. The hypocrisy on show throughout this sham has been there for all to see. Disgraceful behaviour from English and his colleagues and their maroon balloon heroes.

  5. #34
    If you look at the Scottish press over the last good few years Hibs a well run club is hardly ever praised.Yet Hearts who have been badly ran are constantly praised in the media.So does the Scottish media have a Hearts bias or am i being paranoid.It really grates me how they get so much positive airtime.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Sammy7nil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,661
    Quote Originally Posted by The Count View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you look at the Scottish press over the last good few years Hibs a well run club is hardly ever praised.Yet Hearts who have been badly ran are constantly praised in the media.So does the Scottish media have a Hearts bias or am i being paranoid.It really grates me how they get so much positive airtime.
    Just have to look at BBC biscuits is allowed praise Hearts week after week and when he is not doing that somehow he is allowed to do open all mics on Hibs games where he could not be less enthusiastic when we score or gleeful when we conceded.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    “ Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.”

    Let’s flip that one round, Tom. Had Ross County continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th, would Hearts, Anne Budge, yourself and all your media pals and the knuckle dragging Hearts fans be practicing what they’re preaching? Would they have voted for reconstruction to an absolutely terrible league set up that we’d be permanently stuck with?

    Would. They. ****.

    Also, the tears of Tom English are almost more beautiful than the tears of Hearts fans.
    It is amazing that the 3 clubs that care most for the state of Scottish football and are not run for their own self interest are also the ones at the bottom of each league.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Tug Wilson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is amazing that the 3 clubs that care most for the state of Scottish football and are not run for their own self interest are also the ones at the bottom of each league.
    They care that much about the rest of us that they wanted to make sure none of us had to fight this fight.

  9. #38
    Isn't it funny how the Jumbos are perceived by the BBC and their pals to be Scotlands great old footballing institution, that everyone loves and cares about.

    English and his BBC fixers wouldn't give two hoots if this were just about any other club.

    The more the prat opens his over used mouth, the more this nation of football lovers loathe the man.

    Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

  10. #39
    Testimonial Due Sas_The_Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Wrong side of Edinburgh
    Age
    66
    Posts
    2,719
    I have no problem with newspaper journalists stating their opinion - I can choose to buy or not buy their papers.

    The point is that the BBC is publicly funded and supposed to be "balanced".

    I realise politics is more important than football (sorry! ) but how come Emily Maitlis gets reprimanded for stating the bloody obvious truth about Dominic Cummings while English is allowed to ignore any alternative view to Hearts' one and pursue it relentlessly?

    He shouldn't resign; he should be fired.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sas_The_Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have no problem with newspaper journalists stating their opinion - I can choose to buy or not buy their papers.

    The point is that the BBC is publicly funded and supposed to be "balanced".

    I realise politics is more important than football (sorry! ) but how come Emily Maitlis gets reprimanded for stating the bloody obvious truth about Dominic Cummings while English is allowed to ignore any alternative view other than the Hearts one and puue it relntlessly?

    He shouldn't resign; he should be fired.
    That the my principle point in my complaint to the BBC about English.

    Really enjoyed Donald Findlay toying with him on yesterday's podcast. English doesn't have the first clue about Scots law, and didn't Findlay know it!

    Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member 90+2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    12,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    Bosnian factory workers rings a bell.

    Through the Key hole starring Craig Leveins medals?

    John Robertson’s wife swap episode?

  13. #42
    Old Codger Hibstorian Jonnyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    East Lothian
    Age
    67
    Posts
    31,916
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    “ Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.”

    Let’s flip that one round, Tom. Had Ross County continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th, would Hearts, Anne Budge, yourself and all your media pals and the knuckle dragging Hearts fans be practicing what they’re preaching? Would they have voted for reconstruction to an absolutely terrible league set up that we’d be permanently stuck with?

    Would. They. ****.

    Also, the tears of Tom English are almost more beautiful than the tears of Hearts fans.
    Spot on, Calum
    This is how it feels

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Narnia
    Posts
    23,255
    Quote Originally Posted by bawheid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Views of the castle.
    A £1million pound pitch. Only took weeks.👏👏👏

  15. #44
    First Team Regular jax67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oxgangs
    Posts
    801
    [QUOTE=Cabbage East;6206667]We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?[.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Lancs Harp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Lytham St Annes
    Age
    56
    Posts
    3,860
    Being English Im embarrassed about his surname. The bloke is a total d1ck.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member Sammy7nil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,661
    Quote Originally Posted by Sas_The_Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have no problem with newspaper journalists stating their opinion - I can choose to buy or not buy their papers.

    The point is that the BBC is publicly funded and supposed to be "balanced".

    I realise politics is more important than football (sorry! ) but how come Emily Maitlis gets reprimanded for stating the bloody obvious truth about Dominic Cummings while English is allowed to ignore any alternative view to Hearts' one and pursue it relentlessly?

    He shouldn't resign; he should be fired.
    I think she got it in the neck because they were reporting news. Gary Linekar recently said on Twitter he could say what he likes as he does not report news and therefore no need for balance.

  18. #47
    I think the most charitable explanation is lockdown fever. English has often been a little idiosyncratic, but rarely a dummy. This has been sub Gerry McNee nonsense from start to finish. The old adage 'if you're in a hole, stop digging' has rarely been so blithely ignored, so consistently, and for so little reward. Almost nobody cares about this dead horse he's flogging. It's so bizarre.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member Topographic Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Central Scotland
    Age
    55
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    Donald Findlay's phone number......Anne had it somewhere, but the life of her, she just can't find it??? Maybe he'll call her......

  20. #49
    First Team Regular MGmick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Monchengladbach, Germany
    Posts
    639
    [QUOTE=jax67;6207369]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?[.
    The necessity for a stairway to lead somewhere...............!

  21. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Tom English needs to resign.

    If you are BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it is incumbent on you to acknowledge and reflect on different opinions. Not pick a side and relentlessly argue that side.

    As others have pointed out, he’s indulging in a fair bit of revisionism in his piece, so not even reporting the facts. The unevidenced accusation of misogyny is a disgrace. What kind of journalist is he?

    Budge accepted a leadership role in the reconstruction task force. It failed.

    She eventually put together her own proposal - the other clubs showed great patience in giving her extra time to do this - and it was an incoherent, unfinished mess. The clubs couldn’t even vote on it.

    Then the Rangers put forward a plan, and the SPFL took that and tried to find a way for enough clubs to vote through change based on a 14 team top league. It failed.

    Meanwhile, Budge threw insults, threats and attempted bribes from the touchline.

    Do you think the problem might be you, Ann Budge?
    I missed that on first reading. Yes, he just drops that in there doesn't he, referring to a 'tone of misogyny' about some of the comments made about Budge. As you say, where's the evidence of this? She's been called plenty names on here, but among journalists? Really? Could Tom English come up with examples of 'a misogynistic tone' if anyone pressed him on this claim? It's the vagueness here which reveals the weakness of his argument.

    And the token attempts to mask his clear Hearts allegiances are wafer thin, referring to them as 'hopeless Hearts' but then trying to imply County were more deserving candidates to go down because they'd only won two games in 13 (a spell during which, apparently, Hearts accumulated more points. Conveniently he doesn't mention that Hearts didn't actually win more games than County in that period, nor that County won seven games in 30 compared to Hearts' 4).

    As the OP has pointed out, he's attempting to create a new narrative around this saga but is running out of ways to make it even remotely credible.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member AndyM_1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    The People's Republic of Fife
    Posts
    2,559
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I see English manages to get a dig at Donald Findlay in there too. Presumably still fuming at how the Cowden chairman outwitted him with ease yesterday.
    Donald Findlay got Paul Ferris off in the High Court so outwitting a BBC hack peddling the gospel of Budge wouldn't have been too difficult for him.

    Also It's interesting how a BBC Sports department at Pacific Quay have so bought into the Budge mantra and whole resurrection of Hearts post 2013 myth. I have no time for the Govan mob but consider the kicking they got compared with the "isn't this wonderful" puke making rhetoric that Richard Gordon & co came out with about Hearts. They were at one time pushing Budge as head of the SFA which is absolutely unbelieveable.

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    “ Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.”

    Let’s flip that one round, Tom. Had Ross County continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th, would Hearts, Anne Budge, yourself and all your media pals and the knuckle dragging Hearts fans be practicing what they’re preaching? Would they have voted for reconstruction to an absolutely terrible league set up that we’d be permanently stuck with?

    Would. They. ****.

    Also, the tears of Tom English are almost more beautiful than the tears of Hearts fans.
    His logic is skewed there as well. If both Hearts and Ross County had continued their respective trajectories (as he puts it) County would still have ended up comfortably ahead of Hearts.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    exile
    Posts
    17,262
    Budge was against permanent reconstruction so I’m sure she applauded the good sense and judgement of the majority of clubs which agreed with her.

  25. #54
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Between a rock & a hard place
    Posts
    26,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancs Harp View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Being English Im embarrassed about his surname. The bloke is a total d1ck.

    We forgive you



  26. #55
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Between a rock & a hard place
    Posts
    26,015
    Here's an interesting question that it seems nobody in the media has sought to ask.


    If ICT are so against finishing the leagues based on points per game, and think that reconstruction to 14-10-10-10 is much fairer, then why should ICT be the team that was promoted, despite not being in the automatic promotion place?


    What makes them so certain that Dundee (4 points behind ICT) or Ayr United (5 points behind ICT) couldn't possibly have caught them if the league was played to a conclusion?

    The only reason it seems they could logically be chosen, as opposed to any of the other clubs in the Championship, was that they were in second place at the time the league was called. But surely they've already said that was unfair to decide league placings in that manner?


    So how is that fair on those other clubs?

    Last edited by Keith_M; 17-06-2020 at 10:15 AM.

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    7,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_M View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's an interesting question that it seems nobody in the media has sought to ask.


    If ICT are so against finishing the leagues based on points per game, and think that reconstruction to 14-10-10-10 is much fairer, then why should ICT be the team that was promoted, despite not being in the automatic promotion place?


    What makes them so certain that Dundee (4 points behind ICT) or Ayr United (5 points behind ICT) couldn't possibly have caught them if the league was played to a conclusion?

    The only reason it seems they could logically be chosen, as opposed to any of the other clubs in the Championship, was that they were in second place at the time the league was called. But surely they've already said that was unfair to decide league placings in that manner?


    So how is that fair on those other clubs?

    ICT have a dick of a CEO. Its all moot now anyway.

  28. #57
    Testimonial Due hibby rae's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    polwarth
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,671
    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Budge was against permanent reconstruction so I’m sure she applauded the good sense and judgement of the majority of clubs which agreed with her.
    She has also been very vocal in the past about there being too many clubs in the SPFL, but I'm sure the change of heart was for entirely selfless reasons.

  29. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    She has also been very vocal in the past about there being too many clubs in the SPFL, but I'm sure the change of heart was for entirely selfless reasons.
    I wonder if that influenced the way some of the lower league clubs voted.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2020 All Rights Reserved
- Mobile Leaderboard (320x50) - Leaderboard (728x90)