Jambos Legal Challenge

[Onion]

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Listening to Brandon Malone on Sportsound recently, who was there as their expert on arbitration, he did suggest that there could be grounds for appeals although I would agree with what I think your question implies that these grounds were very specific and that he didn't think it was at all likely. However, none of us have seen the documents that Hearts and Partick wanted disclosed and if there were anything in that material that implied any kind of wrong doing then I do not think it would be beyond Hearts to be suggesting an appeal. Let me be completely cynical and suggest that the outcome of arbitration is of less importance to them than scouring for a smoking gun amongst the papers. Personally, I can't see arbitration giving them anything other than some kind of compensation as every other outcome would cause absolute chaos. Do we honestly think that Hearts are going through all of this to pick up a bit of token compensation? They will never get £8m in my opinion...perhaps there is a right of appeal over the amount. I don't know but I would imagine Hearts have considered that option.

My entire point is that Hearts actions actually form a strategy. I don't really want to be seen as suggesting anything to them but I would always fall back on the old adage; if it looks like it, and it smells like it, then it probably is s**t. All I am doing is putting forward what I think is a narrative that fits the facts. Drag it out until an SPL club breaks then argue to take their place.

You're giving them too much credit. Hearts don't have a strategy. This is and always has been about Budge covering her own lardy, size 24 backside. If Hearts was any other type of company, they'd have gone bust long ago. They've burned through cash like no other team and relied on handouts to keep them alive. Budge's oversight has been a mess except for one thing - she's managed to get Hearts mugs to direct their anger at everyone and anyone else - St Mirren, Dundee, SPFL, Hibs, Doncaster, DUFC, Cove Rangers, Raith, SFA, the Media, the world.

Her unseemly rush to talk about legal action as soon as the matches were stopped in March was evidence of that. Any normal club would have kept its council and worked with the SPFL for the best outcome for all, but Budge knew fine well she was in trouble. So, she played the victim card which is like oxygen to Hearts mugs. Taking this to court and now to Arbitration is just her pandering to save her arse.

Handout Hearts are in trouble and she knows it.

[Caversham Green]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...moted-22333557

I cannot believe Budge's attitude in this, disingenuous does not begin to cover it - 'DU, Raith and Cove didn't need to litigate or arbitrate against us. However, they chose to do so'.

So they are going to stand and allow Hearts to take free hits at them and do nothing.

When you think they can't get lower!

Expel them. I wasn't for that before. I bloody am now.



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She actually named them as respondents in the petition (despite Deans's claim to the contrary). That means they were expected to respond - the clue is in the word. The woman really is poisonous.

[H18 SFR]

We need to tell her to lick it and stick it re tickets for Tynie.

[WhileTheChief..]

They knew fine well back in March when they failed to beat Hamilton and St Mirren that they were going down.

Budge saw the pandemic as a way out, simple as that.

It’s mental that she’s been allowed to take things so far but thankfully most of the other clubs saw right through her BS.

A couple more weeks squealing then they’ll be forgotten about.

[neil7908]

I can't wait for the statement when football starts in October for them and someone scores a goal against them.

Given their current state of mind they'll probably take the opposition to court for infringement of Hearts rights to 3 points.

[Keith_M]

I genuinely think it's time the SPFL or SFA told them to put a sock in it, or risk punishment.

They are way over the line when it comes to bringing the sport into disrepute.

[CentreLine]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...moted-22333557

I cannot believe Budge's attitude in this, disingenuous does not begin to cover it - 'DU, Raith and Cove didn't need to litigate or arbitrate against us. However, they chose to do so'.

So they are going to stand and allow Hearts to take free hits at them and do nothing.

When you think they can't get lower!

Expel them. I wasn't for that before. I bloody am now.



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It’s because it’s always someone else’s fault. Hearts started this ball rolling way back at the beginning. Lying adrift at the bottom of the league but unable to accept the reality that her club was statistically the worst side in Scotland for over 18 months, Budge made her first declaration that she would consider legal action in March. Then she declared she would accept the decision of the clubs. Then, backed by the security no other club enjoys, from James Anderson, FoH and sundry anonymous donators, she caved in to pressure from their fans and took the plunge to go to court. None of that was of anyone else’s making but their own.
There was no need for hearts to name other clubs in their court papers but they chose to involve DU, RR and CR. To suggest that somehow this was not picking a fight with those clubs is, at best, disingenuous. These clubs were left with no option but to defend their position and that costs money. Budge didn’t care because, whether JA is directly funding the court case or not, his obscene wealth stands guarantee to Hearts survival regardless of the court outcome. In which case, the harm already being experienced by these other club, and potentially every other club in the country, to varying degree, as a consequence of hearts legal action, must also be shouldered by JA. I am not sure if he will want that. Perhaps he doesn’t care, in which case it is disgusting and Jimmy Saville-esque, along the lines of, nobody will notice the harm done because of the public acts of generosity.
I would argue he has to realise the blatant and deliberate acts of sabotage Hearts are trying to inflict on the SPFL and Scottish football. He is in a position of unique influence and in my opinion should be telling Budge to back off, have her club act with some dignity, or he cannot, in all conscience, continue to bankroll this malicious court action.
This farce has a long way to run.

[proud_and_green]

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She actually named them as respondents in the petition (despite Deans's claim to the contrary). That means they were expected to respond - the clue is in the word. The woman really is poisonous.

Exactly, they have started something but it's everybody else's fault. Punch and whinge when you get punched back.

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[Keith_M]

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I can't wait for the statement when football starts in October for them and someone scores a goal against them.

Given their current state of mind they'll probably take the opposition to court for infringement of Hearts rights to 3 points.

Surely awarding 3 points to the opposition, just because they scored more goals, would be a Restraint Of Trade.

[proud_and_green]

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I genuinely it's time the SPFL or SFA told them to put a sock in it, or risk punishment.

They are way over the line when it comes to bringing the sport into disrepute.

Yep, the sniping and bit ching about every other club has gone too far!

Interesting though, if they had been saying the things they are about referees they would be hammered!

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[proud_and_green]

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It’s because it’s always someone else’s fault. Hearts started this ball rolling way back at the beginning. Lying adrift at the bottom of the league but unable to accept the reality that her club was statistically the worst side in Scotland for over 18 months, Budge made her first declaration that she would consider legal action in March. Then she declared she would accept the decision of the clubs. Then, backed by the security no other club enjoys, from James Anderson, FoH and sundry anonymous donators, she caved in to pressure from their fans and took the plunge to go to court. None of that was of anyone else’s making but their own.
There was no need for hearts to name other clubs in their court papers but they chose to involve DU, RR and CR. To suggest that somehow this was not picking a fight with those clubs is, at best, disingenuous. These clubs were left with no option but to defend their position and that costs money. Budge didn’t care because, whether JA is directly funding the court case or not, his obscene wealth stands guarantee to Hearts survival regardless of the court outcome. In which case, the harm already being experienced by these other club, and potentially every other club in the country, to varying degree, as a consequence of hearts legal action, must also be shouldered by JA. I am not sure if he will want that. Perhaps he doesn’t care, in which case it is disgusting and Jimmy Saville-esque, along the lines of, nobody will notice the harm done because of the public acts of generosity.
I would argue he has to realise the blatant and deliberate acts of sabotage Hearts are trying to inflict on the SPFL and Scottish football. He is in a position of unique influence and in my opinion should be telling Budge to back off, have her club act with some dignity, or he cannot, in all conscience, continue to bankroll this malicious court action.
This farce has a long way to run.

Correct.

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[calumhibee1]

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Surely awarding 3 points to the opposition, just because they scored more goals, would be a Restraint Of Trade.

Was just about to say that. If they don’t win the league this season coming then we’ll be back here next summer - they won’t be able to fathom that the league winner is the only team that gets automatically promoted. This will then of course be illegal and their fans and the press won’t be able to fathom how we can’t just automatically place Hearts back in the top tier.

Restriction of trade, expulsion, self interest will yet again be the buzz words of the summer.

[Springbank]

I see in the Daily Record article, Hearts are still saying this in every press release:

Any club in our [hearts] position would do the same

Well, no, that's not true is it?
Exhibit A, Hibernian FC.
The only club to drop a league place due to points-per-game being adopted (hearts were 12th, still 12th)
Hibs were the only club to lose out financially IN REALITY - losing a 6 figure sum by dropping 6th to 7th
We did not ask for compensation
We did not threaten legal action & yap yap yap like a small dog
We adopted a big dog attitude, took it on the chin for the good of the game, and moved on to the important things in sport....getting fans back in stadiums for 20/21.

Hearts have much to learn

[Danderhall Hibs]

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I see in the Daily Record article, Hearts are still saying this in every press release:

Any club in our [hearts] position would do the same

Apart from Stranraer.

[bigwheel]

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I see in the Daily Record article, Hearts are still saying this in every press release:

Any club in our [hearts] position would do the same

Well, no, that's not true is it?
Exhibit A, Hibernian FC.
The only club to drop a league place due to points-per-game being adopted (hearts were 12th, still 12th)
Hibs were the only club to lose out financially IN REALITY - losing a 6 figure sum by dropping 6th to 7th
We did not ask for compensation
We did not threaten legal action & yap yap yap like a small dog
We adopted a big dog attitude, took it on the chin for the good of the game, and moved on to the important things in sport....getting fans back in stadiums for 20/21.

Hearts have much to learn

Lol. Whilst your summary is true

Hibs would have been all over this had we been relegated without all the games being played ...

The main issue is why haven’t the SPFL, SFA and Hearts etc sat down and sorted it with compo before this became an embarrassing public legal battle ...

Budge knows they are going down and is simply manoeuvring for maximum soft landing ..we would have done the same

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Lol. Whilst your summary is true

Hibs would have been all over this had we been relegated without all the games being played ...

The main issue is why haven’t the SPFL, SFA and Hearts etc sat down and sorted it with compo before this became an embarrassing public legal battle ...

Budge knows they are going down and is simply manoeuvring for maximum soft landing ..we would have done the same

I expect we might’ve been all over it. Given the opportunity to lead a reconstruction proposal I think Dempster might have managed to piece one together and persuade other clubs to back her.

She’d probably have done it by doing more than saying “it’s not fair” and she’d have phoned other decision makers to get them on board - not conduct it all through Tom English and the papers.

[hibeerealist]

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You're giving them too much credit. Hearts don't have a strategy. This is and always has been about Budge covering her own lardy, size 24 backside. If Hearts was any other type of company, they'd have gone bust long ago. They've burned through cash like no other team and relied on handouts to keep them alive. Budge's oversight has been a mess except for one thing - she's managed to get Hearts mugs to direct their anger at everyone and anyone else - St Mirren, Dundee, SPFL, Hibs, Doncaster, DUFC, Cove Rangers, Raith, SFA, the Media, the world.

Her unseemly rush to talk about legal action as soon as the matches were stopped in March was evidence of that. Any normal club would have kept its council and worked with the SPFL for the best outcome for all, but Budge knew fine well she was in trouble. So, she played the victim card which is like oxygen to Hearts mugs. Taking this to court and now to Arbitration is just her pandering to save her arse.

Handout Hearts are in trouble and she knows it.

Spot on Onion, this is a very good summary of the Hertz/Budgie situation and she has got away with it ..........so far!

[Wheat Hound]

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I expect we might’ve been all over it. Given the opportunity to lead a reconstruction proposal I think Dempster might have managed to piece one together and persuade other clubs to back her.

She’d probably have done it by doing more than saying “it’s not fair” and she’d have phoned other decision makers to get them on board - not conduct it all through Tom English and the papers.

Think that's the fairest summary I've seen yet.

[007]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...moted-22333557

I cannot believe Budge's attitude in this, disingenuous does not begin to cover it - 'DU, Raith and Cove didn't need to litigate or arbitrate against us. However, they chose to do so'.

So they are going to stand and allow Hearts to take free hits at them and do nothing.

When you think they can't get lower!

Expel them. I wasn't for that before. I bloody am now.

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It just shows how stupid and hypocritical Budge is. Accusing the 3 others of exactly what she is doing, she didn't have to litigate or arbitrate but chose to (she's trying to get the place in the league she believes is rightfully her club's, which is exactly what the 3 others are doing).

She's got a ******ing cheek accusing others of causing division the way she's behaved throughout. It was her alliance with Rangers and Inverness in their plot for null and void that started off all the division.

[Eyrie]

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I genuinely think it's time the SPFL or SFA told them to put a sock in it, or risk punishment.

They are way over the line when it comes to bringing the sport into disrepute.

Wait until the arbitration is out of the way first.

Then apply the rules that Hearts and Partick signed up to.

[Springbank]

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I expect we might’ve been all over it. Given the opportunity to lead a reconstruction proposal I think Dempster might have managed to piece one together and persuade other clubs to back her.

She’d probably have done it by doing more than saying “it’s not fair” and she’d have phoned other decision makers to get them on board - not conduct it all through Tom English and the papers.

I dont think we would have embarrassed ourselves
We accepted our sporting related fate in 2014
We accepted points per game in 2020
I dont think Hamilton or county or saints would have acted as hearts have done

It's very much a hearts thing, this publicly embarrassing themselves

[Andy74]

Hearts behaviour is of course not in proportion to the position they found themselves in.

They are doing a lot of whining for being at a point where about 1 team every ten years or so manages to escape from.

They’d just also lost to the team closest to them and Hamilton were cheated from a position of giving them a doing at their own ground.

Stopping the league probably saved them from falling even further behind.

[Pete]

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I expect we might’ve been all over it. Given the opportunity to lead a reconstruction proposal I think Dempster might have managed to piece one together and persuade other clubs to back her.

She’d probably have done it by doing more than saying “it’s not fair” and she’d have phoned other decision makers to get them on board - not conduct it all through Tom English and the papers.

Or by taking a less confrontational approach without thinly veiled threats from the off as Budge has done. It's common knowledge that this approach has rubbed other clubs the wrong way.

I've no doubt we would take action, but I'd imagine there would be less entitlement and a bit more 'please' involved.

The way it's all planned out is 100% their fault.

[Skol]

In the unlikely event that hearts get back into the spfl will they then claim its unfair to start on 1 August as they haven’t been training and go to the courts to delay the start until they have caught up.

[GloryGlory]

Does anyone know if the arbitration panel has been appointed and started work yet?

Just curious. I know the judge wanted it done and dusted within 28 days, so that's 8 days gone by now.

[Rumble de Thump]

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Lol. Whilst your summary is true

Hibs would have been all over this had we been relegated without all the games being played ...

The main issue is why haven’t the SPFL, SFA and Hearts etc sat down and sorted it with compo before this became an embarrassing public legal battle ...

Budge knows they are going down and is simply manoeuvring for maximum soft landing ..we would have done the same

Hearts weren't due any compensation. They still aren't.

[jgl07]

Hibs did mump a bit when they were relegated in the late 1990s and did call for the SPL to be expanded to 12. However that had already been agreed in principle when the SPL broke away from the SFL and it came in a couple of years later.

Taking legal action against the League is almost unprecedented. Hearts (and Partick) will remain as pariahs within Scottish football for many years.

[bigwheel]

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Hearts weren't due any compensation. They still aren't.

That’s not strictly true is it - and is clearly up for debate . Due to the pandemic the league was ended prematurely. Tbh I think it would be fair to provide some compo to those relegated as an impact of this decision

[oldbutdim]

Interesting that the article in the 'newspaper' says that Hearts are 'setting the record straight'.

The Record is straight with very few things, and suggesting that Budge is factually correcting Dundee United et al is simply another example of this.
It's her view, not 'setting anything straight' at all.

[Eaststand]

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Does anyone know if the arbitration panel has been appointed and started work yet?

Just curious. I know the judge wanted it done and dusted within 28 days, so that's 8 days gone by now.

I heard they were ready to appoint the panel but then received a late application from a chap named Dessie Leans, who claims to be the best legal mind of his generation, better connected than John Gotti and widely respected by all.
The trouble he might have being accepted onto the panel is that his application was written in crayon by a close friend of his 🤔

GGTTH