Jambos Legal Challenge

[Eyrie]

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That’s not strictly true is it - and is clearly up for debate . Due to the pandemic the league was ended prematurely. Tbh I think it would be fair to provide some compo to those relegated as an impact of this decision

The only compensation Hearts are entitled to is the standard parachute payment paid to every club that is relegated as a consequence of being bottom when the league finishes.

A more diplomatic approach by Hearts would have enabled them to successfully ask for additional compensation due to the unavoidable* early finish to the season but their scorched earth approach has ruined their chances.



*Consider the alternatives -
Voiding the season meant large repayments to TV companies and sponsors, so nothing left for prize money which would bankrupt clubs.
Playing the remaining games was impossible because many clubs had too many players out of contract at the end of May, and games only resumed in mid-June in England.

[RyeSloan]

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That’s not strictly true is it - and is clearly up for debate . Due to the pandemic the league was ended prematurely. Tbh I think it would be fair to provide some compo to those relegated as an impact of this decision

No it is strictly true. Show us anything anywhere that says Hearts are due compensation above what has already been provided for the relegated team.

You might believe it fair to provide additional compo and it may have been a point to be sensibly debated between adults but they are not due it and their behaviour from the off has resulted in a situation that such sensible discussions have been impossible.

[bigwheel]

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No it is strictly true. Show us anything anywhere that says Hearts are due compensation above what has already been provided for the relegated team.

You might believe it fair to provide additional compo and it may have been a point to be sensibly debated between adults but they are not due it and their behaviour from the off has resulted in a situation that such sensible discussions have been impossible.

Yes. I am suggesting that it is fair to expect some compensation in these unique circumstances...the “not due compo” is certainly up for debate ..as far as I’m aware - there are no fixed rules or precedents for what happens when the league does not conclude .

I’ve rarely seen any football club , including our own, act sensibly in extreme circumstances. They always act in their own best interests. I don’t think they are handling it well - yet neither do I think the spfl are either ..both sides should have sought to avoid this embarrassment of a situation.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Does anyone know if the arbitration panel has been appointed and started work yet?

Just curious. I know the judge wanted it done and dusted within 28 days, so that's 8 days gone by now.

Think the panel has been appointed and the hearing will start on Monday. Expected to take 2 weeks. Think all be kept hush to avoid pressure on the panel and stopping the media circus. Sure Hearts will do some leaking to stir things up.

[mal]

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That’s not strictly true is it - and is clearly up for debate . Due to the pandemic the league was ended prematurely. Tbh I think it would be fair to provide some compo to those relegated as an impact of this decision

As has been pointed out here many times, Hearts were not relegated as a result of the decision to end the league early; they were relegated because they were bottom of the league when the decision was taken.

Again, as has been pointed out many times, the argument that Hearts should be compensated for what they might have achieved in the last eight games would be to give them special treatment, unless every other club were to be compensated similarly. So, Rangers should get prize money equivalent to them having won the league and a sum to make up for them not getting the prime Champions' League place; Hibs should get 3rd place prize money and compensation for not being awarded a Europa Cup spot and so on and so on... Quite where this money would be magicked up from I don't know.

[1 8 7 5]

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Hearts weren't due any compensation. They still aren't.

Correct.

[matty_f]

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Yes. I am suggesting that it is fair to expect some compensation in these unique circumstances...the “not due compo” is certainly up for debate ..as far as I’m aware - there are no fixed rules or precedents for what happens when the league does not conclude .

I’ve rarely seen any football club , including our own, act sensibly in extreme circumstances. They always act in their own best interests. I don’t think they are handling it well - yet neither do I think the spfl are either ..both sides should have sought to avoid this embarrassment of a situation.

The league did conclude though, in accordance with the rules. It concluded earlier than expected, but concluded it did.

If we are saying that Hearts as the relegated team are due compensation, then it must also stand to reason that each club is due compensation equivalent to the highest payment they could have achieved has they won all of their remaining games? Rangers could argue that they should be compensated the difference better a second place finish and winning the league, and the income that they’d have got from Champions League qualifiers as a minimum.

[strummbo]

bleating moaning faced cockwombles basically

as my mate just pointed out, even with all their cheating and cash [romanov, budge anderson foh etc] and cash injections plus, they have never had an attractive playing side since the 80's and even that team won nothing [arise sir albert] and the a couple of cup wins but nothing earth shattering yet they still seem to think they are something "special"

a serious inflated sense of their own importance that no one else "gets". yet all of scottish football is to balme apart from them. 7 mins was all they had to do stop st mirren, yet failed again , the worst of the worst.

22 million this season in terms of financing. if you add up seasons, foh and benny... wtf , this is a serially underperforming business thats is incapable if governing their own finances unless they get bailed out.

i hope they sink slowly and suffer a tortuous demise. and budge monies run lot...

[Joe6-2]

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I genuinely think it's time the SPFL or SFA told them to put a sock in it, or risk punishment.

They are way over the line when it comes to bringing the sport into disrepute.

This, this, this

[bigwheel]

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The league did conclude though, in accordance with the rules. It concluded earlier than expected, but concluded it did.

If we are saying that Hearts as the relegated team are due compensation, then it must also stand to reason that each club is due compensation equivalent to the highest payment they could have achieved has they won all of their remaining games? Rangers could argue that they should be compensated the difference better a second place finish and winning the league, and the income that they’d have got from Champions League qualifiers as a minimum.

Lol. A bit dogmatic that view matty.. those relegated have been more materially affected . Impact could last for more than one season ...I think some exceptional compensation to those with a disproportionate impact is reasonable ...

[blackpoolhibs]

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Lol. A bit dogmatic that view matty.. those relegated have been more materially affected . Impact could last for more than one season ...I think some exceptional compensation to those with a disproportionate impact is reasonable ...

Millions of pounds have been lost to clubs who may have improved their league position, of that there is no doubt.

Compensation to one club is wrong, compensate every club, and i'd agree that the gimps should get more than they are currently entitled to.

[bigwheel]

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Millions of pounds have been lost to clubs who may have improved their league position, of that there is no doubt.

Compensation to one club is wrong, compensate every club, and i'd agree that the gimps should get more than they are currently entitled to.

We’d be looking for compensation if we had been relegated as a result ..

I can see a case for handling those relegated differently from other clubs - due to the uniqueness of the situation .

Few will agree on here , I recognise that .

[Rumble de Thump]

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That’s not strictly true is it - and is clearly up for debate . Due to the pandemic the league was ended prematurely. Tbh I think it would be fair to provide some compo to those relegated as an impact of this decision

It is strictly true and it's not debatable. The season ended. Whether the expected number of games were played or not is irrelvant. No more games could be played so the season ended. The team bottom of the league at that point gets relegated. Those are the rules. All teams suffered from not being able to play more games. The idea that compensation should be paid to the relgated team is an idea that the rules should be disregarded just because someone decides they don't like them.

[matty_f]

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Lol. A bit dogmatic that view matty.. those relegated have been more materially affected . Impact could last for more than one season ...I think some exceptional compensation to those with a disproportionate impact is reasonable ...

I don’t think it is, Rangers would make more a Champions League run and a title win than Hearts will lose going down, and the impact of Celtic having that money rather than Rangers means that Celtic will be able to pull further ahead the season after and so on.

We could have made it into Europe, we certainly could have been top 6 but we finished 7th, so are only entitled to the pay out that the 7th place team gets. Hearts are only entitled to what the bottom team gets.

[Eyrie]

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Lol. A bit dogmatic that view matty.. those relegated have been more materially affected . Impact could last for more than one season ...I think some exceptional compensation to those with a disproportionate impact is reasonable ...

If you want to talk about hypotheticals like Hearts not being relegated, then you have to look at all hypotheticals and not cherry pick.

As an extreme example, Sevco could have won the league and then won next season's Champions League which would have a material effect on them as it would make them solvent.

[bigwheel]

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It is strictly true and it's not debatable. The season ended. Whether the expected number of games were played or not is irrelvant. No more games could be played so the season ended. The team bottom of the league at that point gets relegated. Those are the rules. All teams suffered from not being able to play more games. The idea that compensation should be paid to the relgated team is an idea that the rules should be disregarded just because someone decides they don't like them.

There were no rules for these circumstances. They have been retrofitted to this scenario.

Would that be your position if it was us ?

Anyway, I won’t repeat myself . Have made my views clear . Don’t expect them to be supported much.

Hope it’s resolved soon, so we can focus on football and let them get on with their “adventure” in the championship..

[Seveno]

If Hearts were paid any additional payment then it would have had to come out of the prize money pot. This would have resulted in all clubs being penalised for the benefit of the club with the poorest league performance. Hardly fair, especially on Hibs who have already suffered the penalty of dropping a league place.

The only way to resolve it would have been to have asked the club that gained the most, due to the early conclusion of the league, to voluntarily give up some of their prize money. I am sure that Celtic would have been sympathetic.

[bigwheel]

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I don’t think it is, Rangers would make more a Champions League run and a title win than Hearts will lose going down, and the impact of Celtic having that money rather than Rangers means that Celtic will be able to pull further ahead the season after and so on.

We could have made it into Europe, we certainly could have been top 6 but we finished 7th, so are only entitled to the pay out that the 7th place team gets. Hearts are only entitled to what the bottom team gets.

I think because it’s Hearts it gets a less rationale response here . Do you honestly not feel Partick Thistle deserve some support when a global pandemic led the league to be stoped early and for themto be relegated with a game in hand and games to go ? That’s a harsh position in my view . I feel they deserve some soft landing ..

[mal]

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I think because it’s Hearts it gets a less rationale response here . Do you honestly not feel Partick Thistle deserve some support when a global pandemic led the league to be stoped early and for themto be relegated with a game in hand and games to go ? That’s a harsh position in my view . I feel they deserve some soft landing ..

I really don't think you should be accusing people here of being irrational simply because they disagree with your opinion.

Hearts might be getting a bit more of a sympathetic hearing if they hadn't acted like spoiled, entitled @rseholes since day one. Thistle might have got a more sympathetic hearing if they'd entered into a sensible dialogue. As it is, teaming up with Hearts to attack the rest of the SPFL has made them pariahs, so screw them.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Yes. I am suggesting that it is fair to expect some compensation in these unique circumstances...the “not due compo” is certainly up for debate ..as far as I’m aware - there are no fixed rules or precedents for what happens when the league does not conclude .

I’ve rarely seen any football club , including our own, act sensibly in extreme circumstances. They always act in their own best interests. I don’t think they are handling it well - yet neither do I think the spfl are either ..both sides should have sought to avoid this embarrassment of a situation.

I think every club could have a clear claim for compensation due to lost income as a result of the short season.

[matty_f]

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I think every club could have a clear claim for compensation due to lost income as a result of the short season.

I agree, but i don’t think any club is entitled to compensation and I’d be surprised if they were awarded any due to there being no breach of rules and nothing in the articles to suggest that the SPFL would be liable to compensate any team of the league finished early.

[bigwheel]

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I really don't think you should be accusing people here of being irrational simply because they disagree with your opinion.

Hearts might be getting a bit more of a sympathetic hearing if they hadn't acted like spoiled, entitled @rseholes since day one. Thistle might have got a more sympathetic hearing if they'd entered into a sensible dialogue. As it is, teaming up with Hearts to attack the rest of the SPFL has made them pariahs, so screw them.

Lol. I’m glad you’ve proven there is no emotion driving your opinions

[Moulin Yarns]

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I think because it’s Hearts it gets a less rationale response here . Do you honestly not feel Partick Thistle deserve some support when a global pandemic led the league to be stoped early and for themto be relegated with a game in hand and games to go ? That’s a harsh position in my view . I feel they deserve some soft landing ..

Another team had a game in hand, and they benefited by finishing one place higher up due to the method used, should there be compensation for the team that lost out as a result?

[mal]

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Lol. I’m glad you’ve proven there is no emotion driving your opinions

Do try not to be silly. My opinion about Hearts' case for compensation is quite separate from how I feel about their appalling behaviour.

Please make a rational case for why Hearts should receive preferential treatment over every other club that could have improved their league position.

[bigwheel]

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Do try not to be silly. My opinion about Hearts' case for compensation is quite separate from how I feel about their appalling behaviour.

Please make a rational case for why Hearts should receive preferential treatment over every other club that could have improved their league position.

I’ve said all I want to say about this in other posts . Mal ..I understand people will have different views. That’s fine too ..

[bigwheel]

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Another team had a game in hand, and they benefited by finishing one place higher up due to the method used, should there be compensation for the team that lost out as a result?

Yeah MY. There’s a lot of complexity I agree . there’s been a decent back and fro on it . I guess in summary, My view is that, because of the uniqueness of the events and the impact, I can see a case for those relegated getting compo...I can understand why people may argue against that too ...

[Moulin Yarns]

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Yeah MY. There’s a lot of complexity I agree . there’s been a decent back and fro on it . I guess in summary, My view is that, because of the uniqueness of the events and the impact, I can see a case for those relegated getting compo...I can understand why people may argue against that too ...

IMO it has to be compensation for all or not at all. And if it is for all then the SPFL are bankrupt, OR every club is rewarded for where they finished up using the most fair method that did not discriminate against any club, whic is how it transpired.

Hearts and in particular Partick may feel hard done by, but on the balance of probability the clubs finished where they would have done if the season had played out, and that is what seems to be forgotten by Budge.

[proud_and_green]

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Millions of pounds have been lost to clubs who may have improved their league position, of that there is no doubt.

Compensation to one club is wrong, compensate every club, and i'd agree that the gimps should get more than they are currently entitled to.

It's an interesting thought. I agree that every team had the potential to do better because there were games left after the season was called. Therefore, if that is applied to Hearts it must be applied at the same time to every other club.

However, it is an impossibility that every team would in fact get maximum points from the remaining games because for one to get max for a game would require another to get none in that same game.

But, even if they could, that would mean that there would be no change to any of the positions and the league positions at the point of it being called would be the same. .

If all games were declared draws, it has the same effect - no change to league standings.

Using this logic, we were the only club in the top flight to be actually disadvantaged against potential by the average points calculation.

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[GonzoReturns]

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It's an interesting thought. I agree that every team had the potential to do better because there were games left after the season was called. Therefore, if that is applied to Hearts it must be applied at the same time to every other club.

However, it is an impossibility that every team would in fact get maximum points from the remaining games because for one to get max for a game would require another to get none in that same game.

But, even if they could, that would mean that there would be no change to any of the positions and the league positions at the point of it being called would be the same. .

If all games were declared draws, it has the same effect - no change to league standings.

Using this logic, we were the only club in the top flight to be actually disadvantaged against potential by the average points calculation.

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👍👍 which is conveniently forgotten by Chucky Budges bitch English and some of his chums!!!!

[Wakeyhibee]

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I’ve said all I want to say about this in other posts . Mal ..I understand people will have different views. That’s fine too ..

FWIW I thought an extra payment could have been offered as a nod to the fact they had lost the chance to get out of their situation by the circumstances. Partick had the biggest shout and Stranrser the least if any.

It would have been nowhere near their claim. Also teams where places were traded maybe should have had an equal share of the places traded.

After their shenanigans I really dont think they deserve anything.