Why football with fans won't be coming for some time

[Sir David Gray]

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I went to the pub yesterday at 2pm and the rules and regulations you have to go through are very strict, you are supposed to stay at your allocated table, only leaving to go to the toilet. You can go 6bar but table service was available too. By the time we left at midnight, you could see most of the rules were being ignored, and people were going to other tables to sit and talk with other friends who'd come in. The staff were on it early doors, but later in the evening it was really just being ignored by the majority. Would football be any different?

Nope.

Good luck trying to enforce a 1 metre rule (or even a 2 metre rule) if Christian Doidge scores a last minute winner against Rangers.

[macca70]

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Not at all.

We could have this virtually eliminated by August/September and at that point the main threat is “imported” cases. We could largely lead normal lives if this is managed well and the track and trace model is effective.

Although the number of cases in Scotland are very low, as we start to move through the phases and open up more, it’s inevitable the number of cases will creep up exactly whats happened south of the border.

For the sake of a couple more weeks with stricter lockdown, we could have pretty much cleared Scotland of it completely.

I’m not saying staying in lockdown for evermore is the answer but it if there are still cases out there and these are the cases we know about, there will still be folk out and about mingling that haven’t been tested and even know they have it. It will only mean the numbers start to go back up. It’s then up to individuals and families to make a decision for themselves, how much risk they want to take by going to public places like pubs, restaurants etc.

I just can’t see how we are going to have thousands of folk in a stadium any time soon, certainly not this year.

[CockneyRebel]

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I went to the pub yesterday at 2pm and the rules and regulations you have to go through are very strict, you are supposed to stay at your allocated table, only leaving to go to the toilet. You can go 6bar but table service was available too. By the time we left at midnight, you could see most of the rules were being ignored, and people were going to other tables to sit and talk with other friends who'd come in. The staff were on it early doors, but later in the evening it was really just being ignored by the majority. Would football be any different?

I have observed folk throughout this whole sad period and at no stage (even now) has there been anywhere near a reasonable response to the issued guidance. Quite a few youngsters but mainly 30 to 50 year olds have paid no heed to social distancing especially on pavements and in shops. The "local" exercise rule was broken from the very beginning and groups of folk chatting as close together as before the virus and the inevitable smug a***hole pavement cyclists. If these folk were the only ones at risk then maybe a bit of karma but the potential to spread the problem increased through these selfish actions. IMO this is what will lead to the same folk or the same mindset preventing a more manageable return to our (new) normal.

[ancient hibee]

Although I renewed my season ticket it was in the knowledge that as my age group is the prime target for the virus I won't be going back until there is a vaccine.Given the age of a lot who sit near me I guess I won't be the only one making this choice.Obviously easier to do if you only pay the old codgers price.Once any system for attendance is announced I'll let the club know.

[Phil MaGlass]

With more outbreaks now happening all over Spain and Italy (for the 5th day running), I honestly believe especially the way the english govt has failed spectacularly on this virus, I reckon we will not be attending any games until next year, the fact that muppet Johnson is letting folk go into pubs and travel abroad is absolutely stunning. More and more regions in Europe are going back into lockdown.

Oh and just reported in Spanish press, folk told not to smoke or vape in public as it seems the exhaled smoke may contain high viral loads.

On Thursday, the Health Ministry released a statement saying cigarette smoke or vapor “can contain high viral loads and be highly contagious.” It also warned that smoking makes people more likely to touch their mouths.

[CockneyRebel]

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With more outbreaks now happening all over Spain and Italy (for the 5th day running), I honestly believe especially the way the english govt has failed spectacularly on this virus, I reckon we will not be attending any games until next year, the fact that muppet Johnson is letting folk go into pubs and travel abroad is absolutely stunning. More and more regions in Europe are going back into lockdown.

Oh and just reported in Spanish press, folk told not to smoke or vape in public as it seems the exhaled smoke may contain high viral loads.

On Thursday, the Health Ministry released a statement saying cigarette smoke or vapor “can contain high viral loads and be highly contagious.” It also warned that smoking makes people more likely to touch their mouths.

I know that the economy needs the boost from tourism as well as other industries but letting folk holiday overseas is criminal. I fear infection spikes all over the place. As usual I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I fear this is a gamble with very high stakes

[Since90+2]

I think the uncomfortable reality is that this virus simply cannot be controlled without the absence of a near total lockdown. It's simply too contagious to control with any form of movement of the population. A complete closure of the borders along with the lockdown would be required.

The reality is that we would effectively need to shut down huge parts of the economy until a vaccine is found and available, let's say that's 18 months away. The societal and economic damage that length of lockdown would cause would likely lead to more deaths than the actual virus itself.

[The dalmeny]

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I think the uncomfortable reality is that this virus simply cannot be controlled without the absence of a near total lockdown. It's simply too contagious to control with any form of movement of the population. A complete closure of the borders along with the lockdown would be required.

The reality is that we would effectively need to shut down huge parts of the economy until a vaccine is found and available, let's say that's 18 months away. The societal and economic damage that length of lockdown would cause would likely lead to more deaths than the actual virus itself.

I think that’s all pretty fair, the figures reflect the fact we’ve been locked down of a fashion since March so it will be interesting to see how easement affects the figures. It does rely on folk to use common sense, and it’s clear in some that’s lacking.

theres also the issue that for the majority of us we’re protecting others as the virus seems to affect older people more. Under 1000 deaths of people under 75. I wonder how many of those had under lying issues. It’s a difficult one but I’m not sure you can run the economy into the ground

[CMurdoch]

Yesterday was a landmark day for the UK with the 7 day average for CV19 deaths in the UK falling below 100 (97) with less than 40 within hospitals. Highest death tolls announced last week were on Tuesday (155), Wednesday (176) and Friday (136). Hopefully next week those days can see further reductions.

[Keith_M]

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Are you sober yet? I feel like having small groups sit together would allow more people in and want to hear the alternative explanation.

....

Sobered up and got rid of the hangover, thanks


So, imagine the first scenario is that you have to sit alone, have one empty seat on each side, and an empty seat in front and behind, that would mean you could use exactly 50% of available seats.

e.g.

x

o

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(o = occupied, x = has to be kept free)

You will have Seven in the first row, and Seven in the second row = Fourteen in total.


Groups

Then watch the side-effect of putting the first row in groups, but keeping the rule that no one is allowed to sit directly in front...

o

o

x

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(o = occupied, x = has to be kept free)

Now you have Ten in the first row (woopee!), but there are only Four available seats in the second row, as you can't sit somebody directly in front of somebody else. So, the Maximim number you can now fit in those rows is.... Fourteen.


This is where it then gets complicated...

You've also created quite a conundrum for the third row, as you either use all Ten seats in identical groupings as in the First row, or you'll end up with an even lower number.


...and so on for subsequent rows.


See, it's not so easy

[Ronniekirk]

Update from Leanne saying Jason Leigh is saying Children could be allowed back to football first Makes sense since they will all be going back to School in August
Good way to grown next generation as well
Will need to look out my AC/DC Angus Young outfit


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[The Baldmans Comb]

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Not at all.

We could have this virtually eliminated by August/September and at that point the main threat is “imported” cases. We could largely lead normal lives if this is managed well and the track and trace model is effective.

Its the "imported" cases that's the problem as I take your later point about Scotland being well on the way to eliminating the virus, which is a tribute to the people of this country who have on the whole been very supportive of the measures taken so far.

The proof of course being in the single digit new cases day after day however to maintain this you need security and Scotland can't protect its borders in any meaningful way.

Once the flights from USA begin arriving or the English and European camper vans drive North then imported cases will soon cross over into the local population.

You dont need barricades, barbed wire and soldiers but you do need temperature guns, form filling, discretionary countries, air corridors and the right of refusual to "suspect" travellers and visitors.

Scotland has none of these powers and England seems very uncomfortable granting any leeway.

[The dalmeny]

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Update from Leanne saying Jason Leigh is saying Children could be allowed back to football first Makes sense since they will all be going back to School in August
Good way to grown next generation as well
Will need to look out my AC/DC Angus Young outfit


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I think theres hope for something for the kids the week after next

[Billy Whizz]

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I think theres hope for something for the kids the week after next

Outdoor football

[The dalmeny]

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Outdoor football

Yes, didn't make that clear

[CMurdoch]

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Sobered up and got rid of the hangover, thanks


So, imagine the first scenario is that you have to sit alone, have one empty seat on each side, and an empty seat in front and behind, that would mean you could use exactly 50% of available seats.

e.g.

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

o

x

(o = occupied, x = has to be kept free)

You will have Seven in the first row, and Seven in the second row = Fourteen in total.


Groups

Then watch the side-effect of putting the first row in groups, but keeping the rule that no one is allowed to sit directly in front...

o

o

x

o

o

x

o

o

o

o

x

o

o

x

x

x

o

x

x

o

x

x

x

x

o

x

x

o

(o = occupied, x = has to be kept free)

Now you have Ten in the first row (woopee!), but there are only Four available seats in the second row, as you can't sit somebody directly in front of somebody else. So, the Maximim number you can now fit in those rows is.... Fourteen.


This is where it then gets complicated...

You've also created quite a conundrum for the third row, as you either use all Ten seats in identical groupings as in the First row, or you'll end up with an even lower number.


...and so on for subsequent rows.


See, it's not so easy

Good post Keith.
As you say not so easy to make groups work to increase permissible numbers.

[Keith_M]

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Good post Keith.
As you say not so easy to make groups work to increase permissible numbers.

Cheers, I had a lot of time on my hands

[Alex Trager]

https://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug/status/1281191310578286594?s=20

Breaking: Scottish Government to give go ahead for limited fans inside stadia within weeks. Green light for test events but unlikely football season to start with fans. Comes a week after government advisors said unlikely fans back before October. Subject to social distancing

[04Sauzee]

BBC Journo on twitter

Definitely no fans back for start of the new SPFL Premiership season but those within the game have been told if things progress, fans could be back sooner than expected. Test events definitely part of that process. All dependent on no resurgence of the virus.

[04Sauzee]

Government gives the go ahead for the Scottish Premiership to start behind closed doors from the 1st August

[Ronniekirk]

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Government gives the go ahead for the Scottish Premiership to start behind closed doors from the 1st August

Without Hearts Surely this is some form of Injustice


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[portyfelly]

So it will be some Tuesday at a random time in the future when it will be ok to open the doors of ER wide.
Hope they have the ticket things working right.

I was so wishing it would be a Saturday

[The dalmeny]

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BBC Journo on twitter

Definitely no fans back for start of the new SPFL Premiership season but those within the game have been told if things progress, fans could be back sooner than expected. Test events definitely part of that process. All dependent on no resurgence of the virus.

Rugby at Murrayfield 22/8 possible test event

[Moulin Yarns]

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https://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug/status/1281191310578286594?s=20

Breaking: Scottish Government to give go ahead for limited fans inside stadia within weeks. Green light for test events but unlikely football season to start with fans. Comes a week after government advisors said unlikely fans back before October. Subject to social distancing

Details.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/co...ed-spectators/

Edit. Behind closed doors friendly immediately.

[Sir David Gray]

Sturgeon reiterates there is no date for when fans might return and doesn't expect it to be any time soon.

[Eyrie]

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Without Hearts Surely this is some form of Injustice


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Sturgeon's married to a Hibby, so I think it was deliberate.

[CMurdoch]

UK 7 day average Covid 19 deaths now down to 74

Scotland 7 day average deaths for week ending 5th July was only 2 and a bit! (17 deaths in the week)
10 weeks ago there was 660 Covid 19 deaths in Scotland. That's more than 97% of a drop in 10 weeks.

Barring stupidity we are well on our way to the new normal and getting back to Easter Road.

October anybody?

[lyonhibs]

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UK 7 day average Covid 19 deaths now down to 74

Scotland 7 day average deaths for week ending 5th July was only 2 and a bit! (17 deaths in the week)
10 weeks ago there was 660 Covid 19 deaths in Scotland. That's more than 97% of a drop in 10 weeks.

Barring stupidity we are well on our way to the new normal and getting back to Easter Road.

October anybody?

There's a 2nd wave to be dealt with, the breadth and seriousness of which can't be estimated yet but the usual "flu season" of late Autumn/winter won't help.

Also you say "barring stupidity" which, given the potential spread of an infectious virus that could be caused by relatively few people, is highly optimistic to almost the point of delusion unfortunately. In 1 way or another, the dunderheids out there that think this is all a big capitalist mind control exercise and act accordingly will have an impact of sorts.

Big arena/stadium gigs and major sporting events will be the very last things to return, I'd be surprised if that happened in 2020.

[HappyAsHellas]

Greece yesterday reported 60 new cases of corona virus, 42 of which were tourists. Greek medical experts said that 50 new cases a day would be time to be concerned and they've passed that within 2 weeks of re opening. Interesting to see what happens next, I'm sure other countries will be taking note - but not Boris obviously.

[EI255]

They're attending in their droves in Poland!

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