We told you so

[chasitup]

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People on here for real?

They've taken in millions and millions from wealthy donators either directly or via FoH. They've paid wages to Lafferty, Naismith and Boyce we could only dream about - all a few years after administration. *****ed almost £20m on an unfinished stand while constantly reminding Scottish football how sooper-dooper it is with their castle view (chortle), record breaking glass curtain and Piazza. And we've to feel sorry for them?

Hope they go down. Hope the suffer. Hope we rub salt in the wounds if/when the semi-final gets played.

**** them.

You’d think that with all of these incredible journalists in Scotland that maybe one or two would be asking these sorts of questions.

[Heisenberg]

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Reconstruction. These are once in a lifetime circumstances.

Reconstruction is unfair on a host of other clubs throughout the leagues to varying degrees. Why should they pay to save Hearts/Partick? All clubs are going to suffer through these once in a lifetime circumstances.

[coldingham hibs]

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But Hearts are rich. The boss is a multi millionaire, they have huge backing from FOH and they have wealthy anonymous benefactors.

Aside from Celtc, Hearts can surely survive a shutdown for longer than any other scottish club.

Are they really going to try and plead poverty now?

Exactly, with the FOH donations they have a constant income that other clubs won’t have. It’s embarrassing that they are pleading poverty to clubs that will be in real financial difficulty.

They have no shame.

[-Jonesy-]

They’ve a business model that’s dependant on fan donations and literal millions of £ donated from Mr Ben E Factor. They’ve *****ed 20m plus on a shan unfinished single stand that doesn’t even keep the rain out and still doesn’t get a safety certificate to be use. They’ve had a sliding door recruitment policy of signing 70 odd absolute no marks over three seasons. Their chairperson, managers and fans have gone through all of this with zero humility and are currently foaming at their deluded mouths at the prospect of legal action that will drain money from other clubs or even force an injunction that may kill some. They went insolvent only 6 years ago and robbed a multitude of individuals, organisations and even charities to buy success they couldn’t afford and their owner is still a wanted criminal.

And we and every other club that’s done what little we can on the park with what we could afford should take a hit to make sure it doesn’t happen again?

Nah not me man, **** them, let them die they 100% deserve it.

[flash]

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Reconstruction is unfair on a host of other clubs throughout the leagues to varying degrees. Why should they pay to save Hearts/Partick? All clubs are going to suffer through these once in a lifetime circumstances.

It's not easy I agree. Nothing is just now. In my opinion this is bigger than the Hertz situation. A significant number of clubs will struggle to survive the next year.

[Since452]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-could-pushed-towards-financial-22072970

Poor old jambos

Tick tock

[Waxy]

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It's not really fair play with 8 games left though is it?

Whats the alternative then?

[Lee Marvin]

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It's not easy I agree. Nothing is just now. In my opinion this is bigger than the Hertz situation. A significant number of clubs will struggle to survive the next year.

You are correct. However, reconstructing the leagues puts more clubs in jeopardy with diluted finances. Just to save Hearts?

I'll be beyond furious if Hibs have a hand in saving them. I honestly dont think I would be able to forgive the board.

[jacomo]

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Reconstruction. These are once in a lifetime circumstances.

Not a good enough answer I’m afraid.

We need details.

How will reconstruction happen? How many teams in the top flight? How many times do they play each other? Is their a split and if so how does it work? How many relegation places?

If people want reconstruction then they should at least do the work and show exactly what it would look like. This is not a game.

[we are hibs]

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Not a good enough answer I’m afraid.

We need details.

How will reconstruction happen? How many teams in the top flight? How many times do they play each other? Is their a split and if so how does it work? How many relegation places?

If people want reconstruction then they should at least do the work and show exactly what it would look like. This is not a game.

This is exactly why if and when reconstruction happens, it needs plenty time to be prepared. Rushing through reconstruction inside 2 and a half months is complete lunacy and will lead to problems.

[Waxy]

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Reconstruction. These are once in a lifetime circumstances.

I dont understand at all why reconstruction is on the table.
Teams get relegated every season. This season it was hearts. Big deal.

[RoYO!]

I dont understand people saying they dont want them to fold?!

Of course I want them to fold. All in. Ground closure and the rest of it.

They are our arch rivals and their loss would be our gain.

They would always rebuild. There would always be a hearts. But if it meant having to go along to a public park to watch them from behind a rope then so be it!

[Caversham Green]

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I must be missing something.

The choice seems to be no games at all in the Championship or games behind closed doors in the Premiership. Surely games behind closed doors would cost them more than not playing at all given appearance money, travelling expenses and wages for other staff, not to mention the costs of virus testing. They also wouldn't be able to invoke any relegation clauses they have in players' contracts.

It seems to me that relegation is the cheaper option for them. We're relegating them for their own good.

I'm still not getting this.

Scenario 1 - Hearts stay in the Championship. That means no games until spectators can attend, which means no travelling expenses, no additional admin staff needed and basic pay only for their players which will be lower if they had relegation clauses in their contracts.

Scenario 2 - Hearts get back into the Premiership. That means games behind closed door until spectators can attend. Games behind closed doors means they have to travel to the venue, pay for Covid-19 testing, pay some additional admin staff and pay players appearance, goal and win bonuses, possibly at Premiership rates.

So in what way would they be better off financially in the Premiership. Is pay per view feasible and would it bring in enough to offset the extra costs?

[Waxy]

The Scottish media have to take blame here.
They know it’s far from the right thing pushing hearts agenda.
Space and airtime would be much better spent debating proper solutions on the way forward, not saving some bent vampire football club that thinks its more important than everyone else.

[Kaiser1962]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-could-pushed-towards-financial-22072970

Poor old jambos

There is a bit of me that thinks that Budge/Hearts would have long sacrificed 20 other clubs without as much as a second thought but because they're a "big club" they think they deserve priority. That they disregard the importance of other clubs to their fans, who follow Arbroath, Brechin etc just as passionately as Hearts, us or the Dons do.
I dont think (not sure?) that any other top flight clubs have asked (forced?) a wage cut on their players, a deferrment certainly, but not a "cut". Read some of the statements from "diddy" clubs like Nairn County (https://www.facebook.com/nairncounty...52985858112878) then read the self serving bile spread by Hearts. Contrast and compare.

They gambled, again, lost, again, and dont like the result.

And i dont want any club to fold but their sense of entitlement rankles.

[flash]

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Not a good enough answer I’m afraid.

We need details.

How will reconstruction happen? How many teams in the top flight? How many times do they play each other? Is their a split and if so how does it work? How many relegation places?

If people want reconstruction then they should at least do the work and show exactly what it would look like. This is not a game.

I hope you aren't expecting me to have the answers to all these questions.

[Billy Whizz]

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I'm still not getting this.

Scenario 1 - Hearts stay in the Championship. That means no games until spectators can attend, which means no travelling expenses, no additional admin staff needed and basic pay only for their players which will be lower if they had relegation clauses in their contracts.

Scenario 2 - Hearts get back into the Premiership. That means games behind closed door until spectators can attend. Games behind closed doors means they have to travel to the venue, pay for Covid-19 testing, pay some additional admin staff and pay players appearance, goal and win bonuses, possibly at Premiership rates.

So in what way would they be better off financially in the Premiership. Is pay per view feasible and would it bring in enough to offset the extra costs?

CC, we don’t know what their wage bill will be, if it’s point 1

PS what is Hearts debt, apart from their football debt

[Bishop Hibee]

They have spent beyond their means continuously for the last 30 years. They are in the Championship in merit. Maybe admin 2 would help them get their house in order.

[Aldo]

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The Scottish media have to take blame here.
They know it’s far from the right thing pushing hearts agenda.
Space and airtime would be much better spent debating proper solutions on the way forward, not saving some bent vampire football club that thinks its more important than everyone else.

Thing is I don’t see them promoting issues at Lower League Clubs (apart from DAFC recessing players) unless I have missed something.

They are supposed to be a BIG FAMOUS club yet again they find themselves in financial difficulties due to their own mismanagement. They are feeding the media with sob stories now and it’s everyone else’s fault.


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[greenpaper55]

The quote is from "one top flight club" which usually means it's just been made up by the reporter. Who is going to vote to save them as if you do you are putting your own club in danger of relegation next year and smaller prize money as well !

[bingo70]

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I'm still not getting this.

Scenario 1 - Hearts stay in the Championship. That means no games until spectators can attend, which means no travelling expenses, no additional admin staff needed and basic pay only for their players which will be lower if they had relegation clauses in their contracts.

Scenario 2 - Hearts get back into the Premiership. That means games behind closed door until spectators can attend. Games behind closed doors means they have to travel to the venue, pay for Covid-19 testing, pay some additional admin staff and pay players appearance, goal and win bonuses, possibly at Premiership rates.

So in what way would they be better off financially in the Premiership. Is pay per view feasible and would it bring in enough to offset the extra costs?

Will the tv revenue and league placing payments, that I think are spread throughout the year, not be enough to make the difference?

Genuine question, I don’t know the answer to that.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

If they get away with this and reconstruction goes their way, the smugness will be obscene. It was bad enough when they walked away from the debt.

[Springbank]

for anyone who says "clubs can't be worse off due to corona virus "

did covid19 draw up spfl rule c10.3 ?

"the club finishing in 12th will play the following season in the championship "

or or was that rule there in plain sight in August 2019?

ann budge was even asked in December if she had contingency plans for relegation (c10.3 is not a secret rule)

[bingo70]

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Reconstruction. These are once in a lifetime circumstances.

FWIW I agree with you to an extent.

My first preference is hearts to go down, if it doesn’t happen and league reconstruction is rushed through I get the logic why and doesn’t really bother me, I’ve had plenty fun laughing at them squirming so far.

I saw another post somewhere, might have been this thread, can’t be arsed looking but if the bottom two leagues have to be mothballed and say something like 28 teams say they can afford to start the season playing behind closed doors, playing devils advocate, reconstruction at that point would make sense.

What will be will be, don’t see the point in getting too angry if they are given a reprieve.

[Carheenlea]

Talk of financial collapse is a complete red herring from Hearts and simply another tool to try and extract more sympathy from the top flight clubs.

Budge, as we are constantly reminded of by a fawning media is an astute businesswomen, so surely ticking over till January is something Budge and a big club of the stature of “The Famous” can comfortably see out.

I imagine club chairmen will look at the £20M and counting recently spent on a single tier stand, millions of pounds finding it’s way to the club via anonymous donors and the Foundation of Hearts and bumper contracts offered to players that dwarf the contracts others out with the Old Firm can pay, and come to the conclusion if Hearts can find money for all that, then they’ll find enough money to pay the wage bill for a few months and won’t fall for the hoax claims and dishonesty in this latest desperate plea to spare them of relegation.

[Caversham Green]

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CC, we don’t know what their wage bill will be, if it’s point 1

PS what is Hearts debt, apart from their football debt

As far as I can see, if they're not playing games their wage bill can only be less than if they were playing games regardless of what division they're in or whether those games are behind closed doors or not. The important factor here is whether their income from playing games would outweigh the additional cost and I can't see how closed door games would do that. I think playing behind closed doors would produce greater losses than not playing at all.

On the debt side, at 30 June last year their loan debt was all due to related parties - mostly Budge and FOH. They did have £2.9m trade creditors and £0.6m due to HMRC but that's presumably all paid up now. Remember they went into administration last time only because Vlad's other companies went bust and the administrators of those companies were chasing the debt. Probably won't happen like that this time.

[Dr What If?]

Question to throw out there.....looking at the bigger picture here. The crux of the argument behind keeping Hearts up now is that some clubs can't afford to play a season so need to go into cold storage while other can't afford NOT to play a season and if they go to sleep they are not going to wake up.....have I got that right?
For the greater good then and if reconstruction is to be considered, we should be opening the premier league up to anyone who wants to play football next year, e.g. it would be 'unfair' to leave Falkirk in a division where the majority need to shut down if they need to be playing?
We could have a premier league of 20 odd teams, this would be for the greater good right? Would our pauper cousins be ok with that or is this only about them and too many teams would mean too little prize money?.....and after all, if an Ayr Utd was to go to the wall as a result that wouldn't be nearly as bad???

[Caversham Green]

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Will the tv revenue and league placing payments, that I think are spread throughout the year, not be enough to make the difference?

Genuine question, I don’t know the answer to that.

Maybe. In that case solidarity payments paid evenly to lower league teams would be the fairest way to do things IMO. Hearts certainly shouldn't get preferential treatment just because they can't control their spending.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I'm still not getting this.

Scenario 1 - Hearts stay in the Championship. That means no games until spectators can attend, which means no travelling expenses, no additional admin staff needed and basic pay only for their players which will be lower if they had relegation clauses in their contracts.

Scenario 2 - Hearts get back into the Premiership. That means games behind closed door until spectators can attend. Games behind closed doors means they have to travel to the venue, pay for Covid-19 testing, pay some additional admin staff and pay players appearance, goal and win bonuses, possibly at Premiership rates.

So in what way would they be better off financially in the Premiership. Is pay per view feasible and would it bring in enough to offset the extra costs?

I still think that Hearts will come out of this smelling of roses. The FOH have even more of a cause to continue to donate to be the “last man standing” As I mentioned on a previous post they have the advantage over other clubs in that this is already in place and they arguably all other things being equal they ultimately have less reliance on punters coming through the gates...

Moving to a lower cost base whilst building up reserves whilst other clubs do the “decent” think and defer but keep wages relatively high will give them an advantage also. But what of the broadcasters income.

PPV would that mean on the broadcasters platform Or the clubs?

It is not all about financial “options” which only expire at the point at which they cease to be an option (why we still have a no-Deal Brexit on the table and why Mays option remained on for so long) you could argue as time goes on their options increase as the doomsday scenario approaches (More likelihood of players accepting lower salaries, clubs more open to preserving revenues and going to more radical measures, rules being waived...)

[whiskyhibby]

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No sympathy whatsoever, if it was us they wouldn’t give a flying one, and if St. Mirren or anyone else had been bottom, none of this crap would have happened.
You can bet herts would have been saying bye bye!!

Your absolutely right if St.Mirren had been relegated Budge would have been demanding a 22 team SPFL as that is the number of clubs she believes Scotland can realistically support.........goodbye and good riddance to them.....