NO to reconstruction

[chippy]

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That's total nonsense that it's always in the background. It's not been mentioned for ages. It is a knee jerk reaction and will not end well. 3/4 months is not plenty time at all. 42 clubs in the senior leagues, lowland league, Highland league, multiple sponsors, multiple TV companies to all deal with.

Politeness costs nothing and it’s not total nonsense.

cheers

[Tug Wilson]

I quite like Eyrie's idea of 12/12 splitting into 8/8/8

It solves a number of key issues arising at this time.

Swap Hearts and Dundee United to give us 12 in the Premiership.

No relegation from the Championship and Raith and Falkirk promoted from League 1.

After 22 games the Premiership top 8 is could be.

Celtic
The Rangers
Motherwell
Aberdeen
Hibs
Dundee United
Livingston
St Johnstone

and Bottom 4

Kilmarnock
Ross County
St Mirren
Hamilton

Top 4 in the Championship

Hearts
ICT
Dundee
Ayr

Leaving

Falkirk
Raith
Morton
Arbroath
QotS
Partick
Dunfermline
Alloa

In the Bottom 8

14 more games each to decide

1. the league and European places in the Top 8

2. the Middle 8 fighting for a place in next season's Premiership

3. Bottom 8 trying to avoid relegation. Make it 2 down to ramp up the pressure.

Should mean quite a few meaningful and competitive games at the business end of the season.

Should guarantee 4 Uglies games.

Only issue I can see is what do you do about the games already played. Especially in the Middle 8?

Unfair on Top and Bottom 8s to start again from zero but the Middle 8 have to or the 4 from the Premiership have no chance.

Few questions to solve but overall worth considering?

[chippy]

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I quite like Eyrie's idea of 12/12 splitting into 8/8/8

It solves a number of key issues arising at this time.

Swap Hearts and Dundee United to give us 12 in the Premiership.

No relegation from the Championship and Raith and Falkirk promoted from League 1.

After 22 games the Premiership top 8 is could be.

Celtic
The Rangers
Motherwell
Aberdeen
Hibs
Dundee United
Livingston
St Johnstone

and Bottom 4

Kilmarnock
Ross County
St Mirren
Hamilton

Top 4 in the Championship

Hearts
ICT
Dundee
Ayr

Leaving

Falkirk
Raith
Morton
Arbroath
QotS
Partick
Dunfermline
Alloa

In the Bottom 8

14 more games each to decide

1. the league and European places in the Top 8

2. the Middle 8 fighting for a place in next season's Premiership

3. Bottom 8 trying to avoid relegation. Make it 2 down to ramp up the pressure.

Should mean quite a few meaningful and competitive games at the business end of the season.

Should guarantee 4 Uglies games.

Only issue I can see is what do you do about the games already played. Especially in the Middle 8?

Unfair on Top and Bottom 8s to start again from zero but the Middle 8 have to or the 4 from the Premiership have no chance.

Few questions to solve but overall worth considering?

I’m not against this I’d prefer the 16 plus splits but this isn’t a bad compromise

[Ozyhibby]

I’m happy with it as it is. You don’t improve the standard of a league by bringing in lower quality teams.


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[Wilson]

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I’m happy with it as it is. You don’t improve the standard of a league by bringing in lower quality teams.


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I'm not sure you improve the standard of our league by freezing some of our better supported clubs out of the top division for years on end.

[Joe6-2]

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I would be all for league reconstruction. We need to move to teams playing each other twice to stop the OF from having a 30 point gap to 3rd place every season. There might also be a challenge every now and then from a non OF team.

We need to look beyond Hearts getting relegated...although that would be funny but we need to think of the good of the game in Scotland.

I was always for league reconstruction, but no way if it’s just to save their skin, who the F*** are they!!!!

[weecounty hibby]

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Politeness costs nothing and it’s not total nonsense.

cheers

Where was I impolite? Can you direct me to any articles since the split came in where clubs were looking for league reconstruction and it was actually being seriously discussed please. Thanks awfully.

[Heisenberg]

There’s Budgie confirmed she is going to put forward a temporary league reconstruction for next season in order to save her club. If it means less money for clubs then there’s no hope of it passing, but if it’s somehow worked that everyone gets the same money she could get enough votes to make it pass. Here’s the paragraph from her statement:

“Given that the Resolution is not yet approved and given that time is marching on, I can confirm that Hearts, either alone or in conjunction with other Clubs, will be proposing a Temporary Adjustment to the Leagues, aimed at bringing matters to a close in a manner that ensures no Club is financially penalised as a consequence of these exceptional circumstances.”

[Ozyhibby]

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There’s Budgie confirmed she is going to put forward a temporary league reconstruction for next season in order to save her club. If it means less money for clubs then there’s no hope of it passing, but if it’s somehow worked that everyone gets the same money she could get enough votes to make it pass. Here’s the paragraph from her statement:

“Given that the Resolution is not yet approved and given that time is marching on, I can confirm that Hearts, either alone or in conjunction with other Clubs, will be proposing a Temporary Adjustment to the Leagues, aimed at bringing matters to a close in a manner that ensures no Club is financially penalised as a consequence of these exceptional circumstances.”

Small matter but can they bring it forward alone? Don’t they need two other clubs? I’m sure they will get two other clubs but she should know that.


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[Billy Whizz]

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Small matter but can they bring it forward alone? Don’t they need two other clubs? I’m sure they will get two other clubs but she should know that.


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Is that 2 clubs in the Premiership, or all the leagues

[Hibeesmad]

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There’s Budgie confirmed she is going to put forward a temporary league reconstruction for next season in order to save her club. If it means less money for clubs then there’s no hope of it passing, but if it’s somehow worked that everyone gets the same money she could get enough votes to make it pass. Here’s the paragraph from her statement:

“Given that the Resolution is not yet approved and given that time is marching on, I can confirm that Hearts, either alone or in conjunction with other Clubs, will be proposing a Temporary Adjustment to the Leagues, aimed at bringing matters to a close in a manner that ensures no Club is financially penalised as a consequence of these exceptional circumstances.”

I believe the SKY deal will scupper any chance of it happening in the immediate future.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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There’s Budgie confirmed she is going to put forward a temporary league reconstruction for next season in order to save her club. If it means less money for clubs then there’s no hope of it passing, but if it’s somehow worked that everyone gets the same money she could get enough votes to make it pass. Here’s the paragraph from her statement:

“Given that the Resolution is not yet approved and given that time is marching on, I can confirm that Hearts, either alone or in conjunction with other Clubs, will be proposing a Temporary Adjustment to the Leagues, aimed at bringing matters to a close in a manner that ensures no Club is financially penalised as a consequence of these exceptional circumstances.”

Does she not get it? Every single team in the SPFL is currently being financially disadvantage because of the on going Covid19 crisis and there is actually no magic money tree (that'll shock them at the PBS the way they've spent other people's money and renaged on their debts repeatedly).

The money to cushion the Covid19 blow simply does not exist, even with the new Sky deal and the Bank of SPFL is not licensed by the FCA to lend money it doesnt have. Its called reality and living within your actual means.

[Ozyhibby]

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Is that 2 clubs in the Premiership, or all the leagues

All leagues I think. Needs 5% of members which is just over 2.


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[Roxyhibee]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;6141813]I’m happy with it as it is. You don’t improve the standard of a league by bringing in lower quality teams.

This is spot on. Expanding the league in Scotland anything beyond 12 teams will have a detrimental effect in the quality of games we attend as Hibs fans. If people are just bored playing the same teams 3/4 times a season, ok that’s their motivation to expand and I respect that.. But it’s an odd one to be so passionate about (as many strangely are on this thread) as many games will be boring in multiple weeks.

[Smartie]

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I'm not sure you improve the standard of our league by freezing some of our better supported clubs out of the top division for years on end.

If they can learn to use their resources a bit more wisely then they shouldn’t be gone for long.

I have less than zero sympathy for the likes of ourselves, Hearts, Dundee United and Rangers who have found themselves outside the top league for various reasons recently.

Having big crowds is great, but if you can’t do what is necessary to finish ahead of Hamilton Accies then you don’t deserve to be in the league ahead of them.

I actually do think we should have more access to our top league - at least 2 relegation places then playoffs but that measure shouldn’t be introduced in a knee jerk way at this time. That, for me, is the only reorganisation that needs to happen.

[greenpaper55]

[QUOTE=Roxyhibee;6141952]

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I’m happy with it as it is. You don’t improve the standard of a league by bringing in lower quality teams.

This is spot on. Expanding the league in Scotland anything beyond 12 teams will have a detrimental effect in the quality of games we attend as Hibs fans. If people are just bored playing the same teams 3/4 times a season, ok that’s their motivation to expand and I respect that.. But it’s an odd one to be so passionate about (as many strangely are on this thread) as many games will be boring in multiple weeks.

Celtic won the European cup when we had an eighteen team league in 1967, just for your info Clyde were 3rd 12 points behind them ! Hibs were 5th 16 points behind Celtic so you see it does not have to be a detrimental move.

[Tug Wilson]

[QUOTE=greenpaper55;6141962]

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Celtic won the European cup when we had an eighteen team league in 1967, just for your info Clyde were 3rd 12 points behind them ! Hibs were 5th 16 points behind Celtic so you see it does not have to be a detrimental move.

The league set up from 53 years ago probably has little bearing on the present day.

[greenpaper55]

[QUOTE=Tug Wilson;6141978]

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The league set up from 53 years ago probably has little bearing on the present day.

It was two points for a win back then which was the only difference i can think of. I admit that a few years after this there was some dire teams in the top flight and some were even part time so there was a call for re construction and we changed to a ten team league. I would think that the teams in the championship bear no resemblance to the teams back then, coaching and fitness is much better and there are no games that you could say nowadays was a walkover. Would you take Hibs to hammer any team in the championship ? i would not and many other teams would struggle against them.

[malcolm]

[QUOTE=greenpaper55;6141962]

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Celtic won the European cup when we had an eighteen team league in 1967, just for your info Clyde were 3rd 12 points behind them ! Hibs were 5th 16 points behind Celtic so you see it does not have to be a detrimental move.

The financial rules were different then with no significant tv monies, teams sharing gates home and away and players tied to clubs by registration despite contracts ending. The absence of such levelling of the playing field would make a big difference.

I’d prefer a bigger league as don’t like the current split but not as a knee jerk response to one team’s self generated predicament.

Also I am assuming that the really odd ‘pre-season’ league cup format will have to be ditched whenever this next season starts. That may be a bonus as many clearly are uninterested in such games. This is a key issue for a bigger league as would the same uninterested people be interested in attending run of the mill nothing to play for league games that a bigger league may bring.

[Since452]

Big fat NO unless it's 10 teams

[Weegreenman]

Meaningless games, I mean why on earth buy a season ticket and force torture upon yourself?

[The Baldmans Comb]

I find it quite admirable and refreshing that people devote hours and hours devising and debating reconstruction proposals.

Many are excellent ideas and well thought out.✔.

An 11:1 vote is impossible to get from the Top league but still the ideas keep on coming and nothing can stop them.

[Roxyhibee]

[QUOTE=malcolm;6141992]

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The financial rules were different then with no significant tv monies, teams sharing gates home and away and players tied to clubs by registration despite contracts ending. The absence of such levelling of the playing field would make a big difference.

I’d prefer a bigger league as don’t like the current split but not as a knee jerk response to one team’s self generated predicament.

Also I am assuming that the really odd ‘pre-season’ league cup format will have to be ditched whenever this next season starts. That may be a bonus as many clearly are uninterested in such games. This is a key issue for a bigger league as would the same uninterested people be interested in attending run of the mill nothing to play for league games that a bigger league may bring.

I didn’t send that message you replied to, but it has my name on it.! 😂

[Roxyhibee]

[QUOTE=Tug Wilson;6141978]

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The league set up from 53 years ago probably has little bearing on the present day.

Sorry, I didn’t send that message you replied to. Strange slip of text and names there.!

[Ozyhibby]

If I was running Hearts I would be thinking along the lines of getting together with Inverness and offer to take zero prize money next season in a 14 team league no matter where they finish. That way nobody else needs to lose out.
They take a prize money hit but other top flight teams don’t lose out. Needs a 6-8 split which means some clubs may even gain from more games.
Hearts need a solution that everyone else is not hurt by but to do that they have to take a hit. Still a tricky proposition because two teams need added to bottom league.
It’s that kind of thinking that may save them but I doubt they would consider anything that does not give them full membership rights.


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[greenpaper55]

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Meaningless games, I mean why on earth buy a season ticket and force torture upon yourself?

Think we could win a game against Dundee, Dundee United, Dunfermline, ICT, easily ? these games would not be meaningless. Meaningless games are when Celtic have the league sown up by December !

[greenpaper55]

And another thing ! with the smaller league we have been relegated twice !

[weecounty hibby]

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Think we could win a game against Dundee, Dundee United, Dunfermline, ICT, easily ? these games would not be meaningless. Meaningless games are when Celtic have the league sown up by December !

I think the point being that if you are mid table in an 18 team league, you can't go down, can't win the league and can't qualify for Europe and you are playing a similar places team then it is a non event. More likely to happen in a bigger league. I actually think that this year was pretty exciting until it stopped.

[greenpaper55]

The bottom line for me is there are no meaningless games where Hibs are concerned !

[Smartie]

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I think the point being that if you are mid table in an 18 team league, you can't go down, can't win the league and can't qualify for Europe and you are playing a similar places team then it is a non event. More likely to happen in a bigger league. I actually think that this year was pretty exciting until it stopped.

This year was shaping up to be excellent.

The relegation battle was interesting.

The battle for top 6 was wide open.

The battle for European places was far from over.

Rangers had fallen away but had made a decent fist of a title challenge for much of the season.

Celtic still had to get past some decent clubs if they were to win the Scottish Cup.

Playoffs would, as ever, have been interesting.

There is no good reason to reconstruct anything.

There are plenty of bad reasons, most of all placating Rangers and Hearts, 2 badly run clubs who should be facing natural consequences of their mismanagement.