The best solution for me continues to be the 12/12=8/8/8 model, with regionalised leagues below that.
It gives an even split of home and away games in a 36 game season with an obvious break point for a winter shut down if desired.
It means that teams who currently struggle at the bottom of the Premiership have less pressure because there are four places to be earned in the next season's top twelve. And it's the same for those clubs currently desperate for promotion from the current second tier.It means that teams are facing sides of equal calibre, whether in the top eight (title & Europe), middle eight (placings in next season's 12s) and lower eight (relegation to the regional leagues).
It means that there will be more variety in the teams that we face in the first half of the season.
It means that all fixtures will have meaning, which will not be the case for mid-table sides from February onwards in a 16 or 18 team league.
It means good money for Hibs, as we will still have two home games against Hearts and each of the Ugly Sisters. And that makes a season ticket more valuable, because you're going to need one unlike being able to walk up for a game against Morton or Hamilton.
It means reduced travel costs and more local rivalries for the teams in the regionalised leagues. Presumably these would both have ten clubs playing four times, but it could mean a merger with the Highland and Lowland Leagues subject to sorting out the finances.
I'm not in favour of rushing through reconstruction for next season, but the above would be very do-able. If it was for next season, it would mean the extra two clubs being Brora and Kelty who have earned their promotions, not Ugly Sister reserves.
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Thread: NO to reconstruction
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11-04-2020 01:46 PM #61Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.
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11-04-2020 01:52 PM #62
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11-04-2020 01:55 PM #63This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 02:29 PM #64This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If you had a 14 team league with two automatic relegation spots and 12th being a play off spot being ultra defensive would be no more guaranteed to get you safety than it would do in a 12 team league ... we only have two less clubs in the premiership now than we would with 14 and I have to say that clubs like St Mirren have impressed me with their attacking intent at ER .. I doubt two more clubs in the league would change that, or at least make defensive attitudes any worse.
Yes it increases the danger of a few more meaningless games, but not by very much ... how many of a bottom 8 at the split would be absolutely safe from relegation with 14 games still to play?Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 11-04-2020 at 02:32 PM.
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11-04-2020 02:59 PM #66This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
But a 16 team league home and away would only equate to 30 fixtures, so some sort of split would still be required. An 18 team league is an absolute non starter, there just aren't enough decent clubs around to make it competitive and you would have an absolute pile of meaningless fixtures two thirds of the way through the season.
A 14 team league could be the best of a series of options all admittedly with down sides to them:
1 ) .... You would still have a few clubs in the championship with some hope of competing if promoted to a 14 team league.
2 ) .... It would allow some of our bigger clubs who have fell on hard times the hope that even if they were relegated a quick return is possible .... We all know that a 4th season in the championship and no 2016 cup win would have been disastrous for Hibs.
3 ) .... It would give more leeway for clubs like Dunfermline with real potential to add to the league far more than the likes of Hamilton or Ross County a route back to the top table.
4 ) .... A 14 team league would still have the potential to minimise the number of meaningless fixtures if it had two automatic relegation spots and one playoff spot far more than a 16 team league would. It would also add to the excitement if 3rd bottom in the PL played 3rd top in the championship in a one off decider at a neutral venue.
The problem with Scottish football is that we just don't have enough decent sized clubs to have a competitive 18 team league and not enough decent sized clubs to make anybody coming from the championship into a 16 team league anything other than a makeweight almost certain to go straight back down again. Because of our lack of ( for want of a better word ) 'big' clubs we should do what we can to protect the survival of the ones we have, while still keeping within the bounds of fair play and for me a 14 team league would do that.
We can all go .... Ha ha the Huns are going bust ... Ha ha the Hearts are goosed .... Ha ha I hate Dundee Utd it's great to see them struggling. Keep it up and we'll laugh our way into being the northern version of the league of Ireland.
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11-04-2020 03:21 PM #67This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 03:27 PM #68
Merge senior, Highland and junior games. Two top divisions of 12 each - both two down/two up automatically and a play-off up/remain. Football below that split in to regional leagues in a pyramid.
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11-04-2020 03:41 PM #69
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It could be the League cup will be cancelled and the amount of games to be played in the league could end up only playing each other twice, so allowing for league reconstruction.
Then play the Scottish Cup if enough time left in the calender?
Its not ideal, but until we get a starting date for football, there is no point in making decisions now!!!
Except just to relegate the Yams!!!!
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11-04-2020 03:44 PM #70
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But absolutely no more than 14.
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11-04-2020 03:51 PM #71
I don’t mind it the way it is. No need for reconstruction unless it’s a regional league for the first and second divisions.
"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire
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11-04-2020 03:55 PM #72
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Im not against reconstruction per se, but it wasnt on the agenda until this outbreak came along, but im still not clear what the rationale for it is?
What problems created does it help solve?
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11-04-2020 03:58 PM #73This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The truth of the matter is any club being relegated on the back of yesterday's vote can't be accused of getting themselves into 'a mess' vis a vis relegation, be that Partick Thistle, Hearts or Brechin City ... I exempt Stranraer who were doomed anyway by the looks of things. But the undeniable truth is that of these three clubs still had ample opportunity to play their way out of trouble and have been denied that opportunity by a situation totally outwith their control. Sorry if it pisses folk off, but I just can't find any pleasure in gloating about that .. even if one of the club's concerned is sodding Hearts.
I have no problem with a vote to end the league as it stands, that seems like the logical decision to me and I think Hibs did the right thing. Ensuring what happens afterwards limits the damage to 'every' club is what concerns me and IMO what should be concerning everybody who actually cares about Scottish football.
Note .... It was easy to lift that section of my post to make your point, but you do recognise I presume that the thinking behind it was what might work to help and sustain our whole game and had little if anything to do with some sort of Jambo love in you seem to think I'm indulging in.Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 11-04-2020 at 04:02 PM.
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11-04-2020 04:03 PM #74This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 04:17 PM #75
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11-04-2020 04:42 PM #76This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
For sure there is no resolution which will suit all 42 senior clubs .... but a revamping of the leagues for next season will sure as hell suit, and more to the point help, more clubs than just maintaining the status quo will ... in the long run even clubs who had a chance of a play off spot like Dundee or ICT and now wont get the chance will be better off if they would just remove the blinkers for a second and look a year down the road ... which they must do, because if they think this season can be played to a finish they are truly insane.
Both these clubs will be in a championship with Hearts if there is no reconstruction, what chance will they have if the best they could do this season was to see Dundee Utd out of sight by new year? Whereas, if they got their vote out of the way now and concentrated on getting a 14 team league run along the lines I proposed instead, ICT would be promoted as 2nd in the championship and Dundee would have the chance of two automatic promotion spots and a play off spot next season ... those are pretty good odds without ICT, Dundee Utd or Hearts in the same league as them.Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 11-04-2020 at 05:08 PM.
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11-04-2020 05:45 PM #77This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If you want ‘fairness’ the obvious answer is a 20 team top league playing each other twice 38 games. As you know this isn’t going to fly as the Premier clubs self interest determines they want to play celtic and Rangers 4 times.
So instead they bundle together this 14 team league messY idea splitting to a 6 and an 8 after two rounds. A complete dogs dinner cooked up purely to be ‘fair’ to Hearts whilst completely ignoring the ‘unfairness’ to the 3rd and 4th place playoff teams in the championship..
You can pretend a solution is being desired for the common good but every single one of the 42 clubs is posturing and voting purely on a sel interest basis and couldn’t give a toss about the other clubs. Do you really think ICT voted no because it is unfair to relegate Hearts, of course it’s not, it’s to get in the top league themselves. Do you honestly believe thst Rangers are the honest arbitrators of Scottish football campaigning for the benefit of every one? Do you honestly think Hearts would give a f*** if they were sitting 11th?
We were the ‘bigger man’ and moved on after the last time Rangers and Hearts cheated Scottish football but here they are again sticking their fingers up to the rest of us and demanding, yes demanding we see sense and do what they want.
League reconstruction is a no no for me.
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11-04-2020 05:56 PM #78This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 08:31 PM #79This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Comments on your points are above in bold.
The only thing the SPFL is looking to do is protect the new Sky deal and won't allow anything to jeopardise it or provide grounds for Sky to renegotiate the contract. This is why they tried to strong-arm yesterdays vote through. League reconstruction isn't in their thoughts.
Last edited by CMurdoch; 11-04-2020 at 09:24 PM.
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11-04-2020 09:10 PM #80This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 09:11 PM #81This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sky will surely be looking at force majeure clauses across the board * at the mo’ so might not even be worth the paper it’s written on esp. if it’s yet to come into effect?
And they will guard against setting any precedents for a backwater like Scotland - one which has yet to commence whilst other contracts in progress..."We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
"Romanov was like a breath of fresh air - laced with cyanide." Me.
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11-04-2020 09:21 PM #82This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Last edited by CMurdoch; 11-04-2020 at 09:25 PM.
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11-04-2020 09:44 PM #83This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 09:49 PM #84
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/spo...on-spfl-nelms/
This article seems like total nonesense. Nelms can insist on talks about reconstruction happening and they will happen, but there’s **** all chance it gets the backing required to be implemented. The way this is written makes it sound like reconstruction would happen no questions asked - “Dundee could put forward a motion which would see reconstruction pushed through” - it’s not getting pushed anywhere without the required backing of the clubs.Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-04-2020 at 09:54 PM.
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11-04-2020 10:08 PM #85This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
However, as I said it's all academic given the new Sky deal is what the SPFL will protect at all costs, including Hearts, and for that reason I can't see reconstruction.
What folk haven't spoken about is whether BT Sport will hold onto a large chunk of money if we call the season and don't play this seasons games and whether it is legal for them to do so given an Act of God. Mad times.
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11-04-2020 10:08 PM #86This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-04-2020 10:13 PM #87
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Don’t think we need 4 divisions it seems a bit much for a country this size. 2 leagues of 14/16 would be ideal.
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11-04-2020 10:23 PM #88This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It would see a reduction for the top 6 teams from 19 home games per season to 18 which is a big loss of revenue every season.
Team owners won't be interested in getting less money. Plus the other negative revenue issue of cutting the cake into 14 pieces instead of 12.
It's all about the money for each team other than Rangers who are doing bat **** stuff to show their fans they are hard and not backing down to Celtic in order that they buy season tickets. A season ticket mating dance if you will.Last edited by CMurdoch; 11-04-2020 at 10:30 PM.
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11-04-2020 10:30 PM #89
Im a yes for league reconstruction.
Playing the same team 4 times is piss poor.
Id go 16 or 18, play twice. 3 up, 3 down.
Not a fan of the split either.
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11-04-2020 10:33 PM #90
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Likely in the minority, but I really like our league set up - almost every game makes a difference....
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