NO to reconstruction

[Pescarese]

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No idea how a 14 team league would work as not enough games. 16 and especially 18 would be to many.

14 teams could split after match 26, then play home and away. 38 games, same as now. Not saying it's a good idea, but it is potentially better than a larger still league.

[Iggy Pope]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52249263

It remains an extraordinary length of pondering in extraordinary times don’t you think? 28 days. A month to vote when 39 of your peers have pitched? And I’ve long since gone to the BBC for information on anything.

PS
Force Majeure (that being what we are in) tends to kick current ‘rules’ into touch.

[weecounty hibby]

The problem with reconstruction is that NO-ONE has been talking about it or planned for it, or planned what it would look like, how many teams, any split, etc etc. Knee jerk reaction to a crisis that could end up making things worse in the long run. All completely made up to try to save two clubs who have been completely ***** all season and longer. Too many clubs voted selfishly and didn't think about the wider consequences. There will be clubs that go tits up and unbelievably the tarts look like they could be one of them

[murray26]

This is all because Hearts are bottom ( relegate them ) I’ve no idea what rangers are moaning about.. do they really want to start over with Celtic inevitable league win..

[neil7908]

Yes to reconstruction but it needs to be planned and thought out, nor rushed through

[NAE NOOKIE]

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A big NO. Nothing wrong with the leagues how they are.
No one has said anything about reconstruction for years.
NO NO NO.

How can you say that? Making the top 6 is a huge deal, for the likes of Motherwell or St Johnstone especially. As it stands an unequal division of fixtures prior to the split means teams aren't competing on a level playing field with some having a tougher away schedule than others .... that's never been acceptable in my opinion.

If nobody has mentioned reconstruction for years it's because no matter how often the fans asked for it we were always ignored ... The desire to see a bigger league with a more varied number of teams to watch was always popular with fans.

[RoYO!]

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How can you say that? Making the top 6 is a huge deal, for the likes of Motherwell or St Johnstone especially. As it stands an unequal division of fixtures prior to the split means teams aren't competing on a level playing field with some having a tougher away schedule than others .... that's never been acceptable in my opinion.

If nobody has mentioned reconstruction for years it's because no matter how often the fans asked for it we were always ignored ... The desire to see a bigger league with a more varied number of teams to watch was always popular with fans.

But, alas not this year!

Send them down!

[NAE NOOKIE]

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But, alas not this year!

Send them down!

FFS ... It's not all about bloody Hearts, there are other considerations here.

[Cat Stanton]

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A big NO. Nothing wrong with the leagues how they are.
No one has said anything about reconstruction for years.
NO NO NO.

7 in the morning. You need to calm down a little/sleep a lot better.

You are confusing (and worrying over) two different issues. There have been numerous polls showing the majority of Scottish football fans want an end to playing four times a season, and therefore want league reconstruction. Mainly because it's **** and boring.

But that's obviously not the reason it's been brought up this time. So it shouldn't be introduced this time for the wrong reasons, and by the looks of it it won't be. So that means you can sleep a bit better, rest a bit easier, and worry a lot less. Take it easy.

[Joe6-2]

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FFS ... It's not all about bloody Hearts, there are other considerations here.

But it’s because they are bottom it’s being asked for!! For some reason.
F*** them

[Tug Wilson]

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How can you say that? Making the top 6 is a huge deal, for the likes of Motherwell or St Johnstone especially. As it stands an unequal division of fixtures prior to the split means teams aren't competing on a level playing field with some having a tougher away schedule than others .... that's never been acceptable in my opinion.

If nobody has mentioned reconstruction for years it's because no matter how often the fans asked for it we were always ignored ... The desire to see a bigger league with a more varied number of teams to watch was always popular with fans.

I totally agree that league reconstruction should be discussed but not under these circumstances. This is a knee jerk reaction being used to try and appease a few clubs, Hearts being one.

Get this season drawn to a close.

Get next season ready to go for as soon as it can possibly start.

If league reconstruction is good for the game then it can be discussed at leisure and not rushed through.

The idea of a 14 team Premier League for ONE season just stores up problems for the season after. Would it be 3 down and 1 up? Would there be a play off system for the 4th bottom side and 2nd - 4th in the Championship? Potentially 4 out of 14 teams relegated. How does that make sense to the St Mirrens, Hamiltons and Ross Counties of this world?

So if the change is going to happen then it has to be permanent and thought through.

For the 20/21 season, relegate 12th place in the Premier League and promote 1st from the Championship.

For season 21/22, relegate 12th in the PL, promote the top 3 in the Championship and if needs be have a play off between 11th in PL and 4th in Championship.

[GordonHFC]

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Would the TV deal allow for reconstruction

Only if Celtic and The Rangers still play 4 times a season.

[ScottB]

Could copy the Belgian format?

16 teams play each other twice, then enter into a couple different play off groups with the top sides from the league below. Gives the bigger league required, doesn’t reduce the number of games or, likely, the number of Old Firm games either.

Don’t see any point in changing for a season though, if we’re going to change it should be permanent, and not necessarily starting next season. Hell there’s no certainty we’ll be able to run a full season of the current format as it is!

[Waxy]

I like the split. It gives us all an interest as only celtic buy sorry i mean win the league.
It always going to be uneven games unless we have odd numbered leagues. Then a team has to sit out a round of fixtures.
16 team league play home and away = 30
Then split to another 7 games is probably best we could do.
Two down one playoff.
Your losing a derby a seaon both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Tv wouldnt go for that.
Maybe be as well just going back to a ten team league and play 36 games.

[green day]

Reconstruction (while a nice idea) is only being talked about now to help Hearts and a couple of Championship teams that see an opportunity.

As a reminder of the specifics -

"The Premiership will be shown live on Sky Sports after the SPFL agreed a new broadcast deal worth around £160m to Scottish clubs.

It represents an increase of around 20% from the last combined contract.

The five-year agreement will include 48 games per season, as well as the six Premiership play-off ties."


Sky are interested in maximising Rangers / Celtic matches (inc their derbies) - I would be gobsmacked if the new TV contract doesnt have a clause stating that the deals are dependent on the league format being as is and allowing them to walk away / renegotiate if we change it or reduce the number of matches.

Sky might reasonably think this was an opportunity to reduce their spend, so the clubs could feasibly lose out.

Perhaps I am wrong (I dont think so) but once the specifics of the deal and the financial implications are discussed then I am fairly sure that this concept will be thrown out.

[JimBHibees]

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That allocated period would be extraordinary in the current Force Majeure.

Agree terms of the vote given the current situation should have been agreed beforehand so the farce didn't happen.

[Waxy]

Maybe a fairer way to do these things in future will be looked at.
If half the season has been played then thats what we go back to?
So we’d have played 22 games and each other home and away?
No idea how the league would have looked we’d stopped at that this season.

[tamig]

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By how much would the money Hibs receive in a 12 team league be diluted if it was a 14/16 team league. How much could we miss out on?

I’m sure someone mentioned on another thread that the Aberdeen chairman said each club would lose 600k if the league increased to 14.

[tamig]

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No idea how a 14 team league would work as not enough games. 16 and especially 18 would be to many.

There are models that can work for 14 team leagues. You just need to separate the thinking from how the current split works.

[Leith_Hibee]

I would be all for league reconstruction. We need to move to teams playing each other twice to stop the OF from having a 30 point gap to 3rd place every season. There might also be a challenge every now and then from a non OF team.

We need to look beyond Hearts getting relegated...although that would be funny but we need to think of the good of the game in Scotland.

[Northernhibee]

Disagree. Would love a league that allows a guaranteed two down, two up and a maximum of three ties against an opponent a season, ideally two. Teams like Hamilton play crap football as they have to scrap to survive, if they go down they ain’t coming back up and as long as they finish above one other team, the playoff system favours the top flight team.

The more teams can play good football and not have to constantly think of the threat of being put into a league that’s very, very tough to get out of (Dundee United, Rangers and is all failed to on the first time of asking) and by making that league slightly easier to get out of, we may see teams who are perennially fighting at the bottom third of the league encourage their youngsters to play better football and improve the standard of our fitba.

[tamig]

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I would be all for league reconstruction. We need to move to teams playing each other twice to stop the OF from having a 30 point gap to 3rd place every season. There might also be a challenge every now and then from a non OF team.

We need to look beyond Hearts getting relegated...although that would be funny but we need to think of the good of the game in Scotland.

Why is now the appropriate time for that though? Why the sudden rush. It needs debating properly and an agreement in place as to when it will start. Before a ball has been kicked in the season leading up to any change.

[Billy Whizz]

I don’t think it does any harm, every so often to change things around. However this must be a planned approach, and not a knee jerk reaction

Think some of the issues around are, some of our traditional better supported clubs, are in lower leagues, and smaller supported teams, without naming them are in the top league
Yeah it’s their fault, but how without real investment how can they get back

[Chuck Rhoades]

I reckon those against are mainly driven by the Hearts relegation factor as opposed to what’s the right way forward for this country’s top flight league.

FWIW, it’s a no from me, FTH.

[greenlex]

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Yes to reconstruction but it needs to be planned and thought out, nor rushed through

This

[we are hibs]

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I reckon those against are mainly driven by the Hearts relegation factor as opposed to what’s the right way forward for this country’s top flight league.

FWIW, it’s a no from me, FTH.

Its partially that but mostly because when Scottish football makes rushed through decisions like this it ends up becoming farcical and clubs end up worse off. It needs to be thoroughly thought through and planned over at least a year before happening. Not 7 or 8 weeks.

[Lee Marvin]

Very little chance this gets voted through.

Only 2 teams have to vote against and Hibs, if they like selling season tickets, would be one of them. Why would Celtic or Rangers vote for it? Why would any other team needing money?

The only reason to vote for this for 1 season is 'fairness.' We have already seen that this does not exist in Scottish football.

[chippy]

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Yes to reconstruction but it needs to be planned and thought out, nor rushed through

If the principle is agreed that there is a strong preference for a larger premier league, then we’ve got 3/4 months to look at various options, consult fans properly, engage Sky and come to some consensus. What else will we all be doing, not going on holiday and not many of us working

[Roxyhibee]

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Disagree. Would love a league that allows a guaranteed two down, two up and a maximum of three ties against an opponent a season, ideally two. Teams like Hamilton play crap football as they have to scrap to survive, if they go down they ain’t coming back up and as long as they finish above one other team, the playoff system favours the top flight team.

The more teams can play good football and not have to constantly think of the threat of being put into a league that’s very, very tough to get out of (Dundee United, Rangers and is all failed to on the first time of asking) and by making that league slightly easier to get out of, we may see teams who are perennially fighting at the bottom third of the league encourage their youngsters to play better football and improve the standard of our fitba.

There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest that a better standard of football will be played because we have a bigger league with lots more teams. Quite the contrary in fact. Many more boring teams will sit in that big lump in the middle and be happy to survive every season guaranteeing revenue from playing Celtic, Sevco, us, Hertz etc.

Google Scottish League finishes in many previous seasons in the 60’s and 70’s before the SPL and imagine some of those fixtures from February onwards. Many of my generation lived through that period and it could be excruciating - there were just as many 0-0 draws, defensive negative teams etc but the difference was they were even more meaningless. And you could play these types of teams 6 or 7 weeks on the trot.! No wonder crowds went from 5,000 to 35/40,000 - you were choking on a big game. So - clear evidence right there that people wanted to watch football in Scotland in big numbers, but didn’t attend the large amount of small meaningless games that a big league offered.

People wanting reconstruction are wanting things to improve and I get that. But I’ve yet to see something practical put forward that would be better - just words reaching for something that isn’t there. In my opinion, because of the and standard of teams we have out with the handful of good sized clubs in Scotland, the current system is the best to maximise some continued excitement right to the end of the season.

[chippy]

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Could copy the Belgian format?

16 teams play each other twice, then enter into a couple different play off groups with the top sides from the league below. Gives the bigger league required, doesn’t reduce the number of games or, likely, the number of Old Firm games either.

Don’t see any point in changing for a season though, if we’re going to change it should be permanent, and not necessarily starting next season. Hell there’s no certainty we’ll be able to run a full season of the current format as it is!

Belgian model is very good. 16 teams play 30. Top 6 play home and away for title and 4 Euro places. 7th -14th form 2 mini leagues and a playoff winner plays 5th in league for final Euro spot. Bottom 2 play off over 3 -5 games for relegation place. Personally I’d modify the split to Top 4 , middle 8 in 2 groups and bottom 4 play off for 1 or 2 relegation places, 2 promoted from Tier 2.
I think this answers all the questions except potentially diluting monies available in a 12 club league. I think that is balanced though by reducing risk of relegation and scope to develop and play more young and cheaper Scots