NO to reconstruction

[The 90+2]

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Yeah let's change for the sake of change. It's like changing a 10 year old car for a 9 year old one, same make and model, same components, and expecting a better car.

No one would do that unless there was certainty that the newer car was significantly better than the old.

Correct.

[inglisavhibs]

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Personally I'd like an expanded league but up to 16 or even 18 teams. Your right though that this hasn't really been on the agenda for a long time and there has been no consensus amongst fans or the clubs on this.

It absolutely cannot be railroaded through at this point in time.

The 18 club league nearly killed Scottish Football for good, far too many meaningless games which next to nobody attended. With our population 12 is the maximum we should have.

[danhibees1875]

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Hamilton are the counter balance to Queen Annie.

If there is any team that are going to lose out when you switch back to 12 and have to relegate 3 clubs its Hamilton.

You would have to have a permanent 14 team league and try to restrict relegation to 1 down fixed or maybe plus a play off for Hamilton to be in favor.

They know when they go down they aren't coming back up for a long time.

What they need to be there for them to vote in favour of it will likely be there though I think.

Hearts aren't going to sign off on this without having made Hamilton happy or else they'll know they're not going to win the vote. Hamilton will be the first team they look to appease. Get them onside then start working on sweeteners for the rest.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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That's even more stupid than the original 12-12 into 8-8-8 idea first proposed. It can't work with a 14 team league and the only reason they would propose it is so Hearts don't get relegated.

The 12/12 into 8/8/8 is by far the best option on the table as long as everyones points are rest to Zero after you qualify for your play off group.

Top 8 battling for 4 or 5 Euro spots
Middle 8 battling to stay in top12 or get promoted into top12
Bottom 8 battling for survival in the top tier of 24 with only 5 guaranteed.

That set up would have meaningful games right to the very last game of every season.

[JimBHibees]

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It needs an 11:1 vote and I am absolutely convinced this won't be achieved.

St Mirren, Hamilton, Ross County face relegation or play offs the following year when you revert to 12 teams.

Hibs face season ticket sale wrath if they vote for it.

Celtic and Sevco like the status quo and cosy already agreed Sky deal that no one wants to renegotiate.

Aberdeen, Motherwell and us don't want to compete with Hearts for European places.

Everyone benefits from Hearts being out of the league as they have strong resources so could easily bounce back to be top 6 so most clubs drop a place down and lose TV money as that is paid out on league position.

1:11 is my prediction not 11:1.

That all makes complete sense.

[James Stephen]

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The 12/12 into 8/8/8 is by far the best option on the table as long as everyones points are rest to Zero after you qualify for your play off group.

Top 8 battling for 4 or 5 Euro spots
Middle 8 battling to stay in top12 or get promoted into top12
Bottom 8 battling for survival in the top tier of 24 with only 5 guaranteed.

That set up would have meaningful games right to the very last game of every season.

Resetting points is a mental idea, and completely defeats the purpose of a league season.

The fact that people are having to come up with such outlandish contrivances to try and get something that is vaguely practical shows how ridiculous the whole idea of doing a reconstruction in 2 weeks is.

[007]

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Yeah let's change for the sake of change. It's like changing a 10 year old car for a 9 year old one, same make and model, same components, and expecting a better car.

No one would do that unless there was certainty that the newer car was significantly better than the old.

It's more like changing you perfectly good Merc for an unreliable Dacia and agreeing to pay more each month for it.

[Green Badger]

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Resetting points is a mental idea, and completely defeats the purpose of a league season.

The fact that people are having to come up with such outlandish contrivances to try and get something that is vaguely practical shows how ridiculous the whole idea of doing a reconstruction in 2 weeks is.

Totally agree, I am yet to see a single idea that is better than the current setup and likely to gain the votes necessary to be implemented. Nor do I expect to see one magically appear in the next 2 weeks.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Resetting points is a mental idea, and completely defeats the purpose of a league season.

The fact that people are having to come up with such outlandish contrivances to try and get something that is vaguely practical shows how ridiculous the whole idea of doing a reconstruction in 2 weeks is.

Whats mental about restting points to Zero?

Stage one is a qualification round of fixtures. A Competition in itself. Once you qualify you are in a new league.

Are you suggesting as an example that you should carry forward points won in say the Euro or WC qualifiers to the 1st round of the competition proper. Now that would be mental.

[tonyrougier123]

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Totally agree, I am yet to see a single idea that is better than the current setup and likely to gain the votes necessary to be implemented. Nor do I expect to see one magically appear in the next 2 weeks.

Anything is better than the current setup imo.
We should be goiing for summer football and a winter British cup.and a 16 team league

[The 90+2]

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Whats mental about restting points to Zero?

Stage one is a qualification round of fixtures. A Competition in itself. Once you qualify you are in a new league.

Are you suggesting as an example that you should carry forward points won in say the Euro or WC qualifiers to the 1st round of the competition proper. Now that would be mental.

You think Celtic or Rangers would ever agree to that? Not one single chance.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...-there-2540797

Thank goodness United don’t get a vote

[James Stephen]

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Whats mental about restting points to Zero?

Stage one is a qualification round of fixtures. A Competition in itself. Once you qualify you are in a new league.

Are you suggesting as an example that you should carry forward points won in say the Euro or WC qualifiers to the 1st round of the competition proper. Now that would be mental.

Neither of those competitions is a league, and qualifying for a tournament is a completely different thing to a league championship.

The whole point in a league is deciding who is best, and worst, across the duration of the season, based on the most (or fewest) points. That idea makes a mockery of that.

[007]

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Resetting points is a mental idea, and completely defeats the purpose of a league season.

The fact that people are having to come up with such outlandish contrivances to try and get something that is vaguely practical shows how ridiculous the whole idea of doing a reconstruction in 2 weeks is.

Couldn't agree more. You could have a team lose every single game and be more than 20 points behind the 9th placed and then they're equal again. Can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to come up with such an unfair set up. I hope that's what Budge puts forward, it is sh¡t.

[CorrieHibs]

I get a horrible feeling she is going to pull this off. I don’t know how. I just know she is an ego maniac and will have had some assurances from clubs, before setting off on this quest. Plus Hearts are the luckiest team in the world.

[Diclonius]

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Resetting points is a mental idea, and completely defeats the purpose of a league season.

The fact that people are having to come up with such outlandish contrivances to try and get something that is vaguely practical shows how ridiculous the whole idea of doing a reconstruction in 2 weeks is.

One thing that could work is if you reset the 4th placed team in the Championship to 0, put 1st in the Championship and 12th in the Premiership on the same points, and everyone relative to where they were before the split.

Let's take this season as an example, with the points tallies after everyone played each other twice:

Ross County: 22
St Mirren: 19
Hamilton: 18
Hearts: 14
Dundee Utd: 45
Inverness: 32
Ayr: 28
Dundee: 28

They would start out post-split with the following:
Ross County: 25
St Mirren: 22
Hamilton: 21
Hearts: 17
Dundee Utd: 17
Inverness: 4
Ayr: 0
Dundee: 0

That way, what you actually do pre-split matters. Ross County have a bit of a cushion ahead of their rivals, whilst Inverness, Ayr and Dundee wil ahve to work hard to get promoted.

[Sioux]

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Whats mental about restting points to Zero?

Stage one is a qualification round of fixtures. A Competition in itself. Once you qualify you are in a new league.

Are you suggesting as an example that you should carry forward points won in say the Euro or WC qualifiers to the 1st round of the competition proper. Now that would be mental.

So, you want 24 teams to play something like 24 matches to qualify for either a PL 1,2 or 3. An example: top eight compete in PL1 where the club with the least amount of points uses a magic wand and now becomes joint top. Is that right? Would that not mean the top 3 or 4 of the original 12 are playing a series of friendlies, knowing they are sure to qualify?

I hardly think that fans will turn out in numbers for these qualifying matches.

This has to be the most 'mental' idea ever. An actual league season that last 6 or 7 weeks!

WOW.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Neither of those competitions is a league, and qualifying for a tournament is a completely different thing to a league championship.

The whole point in a league is deciding who is best, and worst, across the duration of the season, based on the most (or fewest) points. That idea makes a mockery of that.

Both of them start out as leagues and ultimately after a second league phase progress to a knock out competition. But thats mental right because it doesn't fit with your fixed and intransigent view.

Just for clarity the first phase of fixtures are "qualifying"

Its different and its radical but lets stick with a model that gifts thd league to one ugly or the other just because.

[Waxy]

Cant see championship clubs wanting a 14 club spfl either. Losing out on the bigger clubs income.
Not really fair to take the top two out.
Almost a whole division would struggle financially.
Just because hearts cant accept they were the worst team and finished bottom in season 2019/20.

[007]

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One thing that could work is if you reset the 4th placed team in the Championship to 0, put 1st in the Championship and 12th in the Premiership on the same points, and everyone relative to where they were before the split.

Let's take this season as an example, with the points tallies after everyone played each other twice:

Ross County: 22
St Mirren: 19
Hamilton: 18
Hearts: 14
Dundee Utd: 45
Inverness: 32
Ayr: 28
Dundee: 28

They would start out post-split with the following:
Ross County: 25
St Mirren: 22
Hamilton: 21
Hearts: 17
Dundee Utd: 17
Inverness: 4
Ayr: 0
Dundee: 0

That way, what you actually do pre-split matters. Ross County have a bit of a cushion ahead of their rivals, whilst Inverness, Ayr and Dundee wil ahve to work hard to get promoted.

That makes it even worse. You'd have Inverness, Ayr and Dundee battling to avoid relegation and everyone else would have 14 virtually meaningless games because they're miles ahead of relegation.

[Diclonius]

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That makes it even worse. You'd have Inverness, Ayr and Dundee battling to avoid relegation and everyone else would have 14 virtually meaningless games because they're miles ahead of relegation.

They started in the bottom tier anyway so it wouldn't make much of a difference. If leagues were closer around the time of the split then it'd be more exciting - means teams get rewarded or punished either way.

St Mirren, Hamilton and Hearts would all be in danger of relegation given how well United were performing up until that point. The bottom four teams go down while the top four go up.

[007]

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I get a horrible feeling she is going to pull this off. I don’t know how. I just know she is an ego maniac and will have had some assurances from clubs, before setting off on this quest. Plus Hearts are the luckiest team in the world.

Assurances like Partick and Inverness had from Dundee? She needs to get an 11-1 majority in the Premiership which is highly unlikely.

I've yet to see a decent possible set up that will likely make all clubs no worse off, like Budge says should be the case. You've only got to look on social media and the Jambos can't even agree amongst themselves on the best set up so what chance is there of getting one that works for all clubs.

[BoomtownHibees]

I hope Budge’s ideas are the same as the ones on here. Will be the easiest 11-1 defeat against a restructure

[Brightside]

2 leagues of 20. 2 up 2 down at every level. That’ll do. Let’s put it in place in 3 years time.

[danhibees1875]

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2 leagues of 20. 2 up 2 down at every level. That’ll do. Let’s put it in place in 3 years time.

I don't see that ever happening. There'd be a lot less money for a lot of teams. A lot of middle of the table boring games too I'd imagine.

[007]

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They started in the bottom tier anyway so it wouldn't make much of a difference. If leagues were closer around the time of the split then it'd be more exciting - means teams get rewarded or punished either way.

St Mirren, Hamilton and Hearts would all be in danger of relegation given how well United were performing up until that point. The bottom four teams go down while the top four go up.

It would make a difference as I pointed out in your example because of the number of virtually meaningless games for the other 5 teams. It's not much good having to rely on it being close at the split when as your example shows how bad it would be if they're not close. A boring remaining 14 games for 5 sets of fans.

The team in 5th place in the Championship could be miles behind at the point the top 4 go up but then only have to scrape past one of them in a play off to get the Premiership place for next season.

Mixing and matching the leagues midway through the season is a terrible idea. For every one time it might work out okay you'd have half a dozen times it wouldn't.

[Andy74]

Teams get relegated every year. Why should this one result in reconstruction?

[007]

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I hope Budge’s ideas are the same as the ones on here. Will be the easiest 11-1 defeat against a restructure

Me too. 🙂

Several pundits have commented in recent times how well the split has been working and for a change I agree with them on something. Some even said they didn't like the idea of the split at first but had changed their mind.

[tamig]

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I get a horrible feeling she is going to pull this off. I don’t know how. I just know she is an ego maniac and will have had some assurances from clubs, before setting off on this quest. Plus Hearts are the luckiest team in the world.

Her quest is one of desperation. She will grasp at any opportunity presented to her in order to save their filthy skins.

[murray26]

You can almost guarantee Hibs Celtic and Aberdeen won’t vote for this.. and I really don’t see why the other clubs would want to split the prize money.. it’s not going to happen and they know it.