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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by number9dream View Post
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    I'm pretty sure the players are deferring AND being furloughed - but the statement isn't crystal clear. It just says the "majority of our people" in terms of the furlough process.

    How do you reckon the arithmetic works out if that isn't the case? Players taking a temporary cut and the club meeting ALL of the remainder throughout this period? That's still a hefty bill with next to no income.

    * The BBC story has been updated to say "all first team squad" on furlough - so they've probably phoned up to get that clarified.
    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)


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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    I don't think many players will be furloughed. Youngsters and those on a small income probably will be, but the first team squad won't be.

    All of the admin staff will probably be being furloughed.

    This is a damage limitation exercise. There is help available from the government to assist businesses in exactly the position Hibs find themselves in - generally sound businesses who have found themselves unable to function due to the public having to comply with government advice re social isolation. The business is temporarily non-viable but that won't be the case forever.

    Whoever is suitable for the scheme and whoever Hibs can furlough whilst playing by the rules, will be. As mentioned in the statement, a core staff will be kept on and will be continuing to be paid (for example, whoever actually worked on the nuts and bolts of this statement being released). The players will probably earn too much and Hibs will have negotiated them down to an appropriate level of income for a defined period. It will mean that Hibs' own cash reserves won't bleed away quite as quickly.

    I've done the same at my work, I've got it down to the minimal possible outgoings whilst there is nothing coming in. It's now just a case of waiting to see if there's enough in the bank to cover what bleeds away before we can get up and running again, and then hopefully there will be normal/ increased demand for our services at that point.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by number9dream View Post
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    I'm pretty sure the players are deferring AND being furloughed - but the statement isn't crystal clear. It just says the "majority of our people" in terms of the furlough process.

    How do you reckon the arithmetic works out if that isn't the case? Players taking a temporary cut and the club meeting ALL of the remainder throughout this period? That's still a hefty bill with next to no income.

    * The BBC story has been updated to say "all first team squad" on furlough - so they've probably phoned up to get that clarified.
    It is very confusing.Not quite sure how you can be deferred and furloughed at the same time.I imagine it means that the players are now considered to be laid off from any club involvement.The BBC post has definitely been amended so the above posts are wrong if the BBC are right.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)
    Not doubting you but what counts as training at home for a footballer?

    I guess there's maybe tactical analysis and theoretical drills they could discuss as a team to a limited extent. But beyond that is it just eating right, and exercising? Not sure they could tell people not to do that.
    Mon the Hibs.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I don't think many players will be furloughed. Youngsters and those on a small income probably will be, but the first team squad won't be.

    All of the admin staff will probably be being furloughed.

    This is a damage limitation exercise. There is help available from the government to assist businesses in exactly the position Hibs find themselves in - generally sound businesses who have found themselves unable to function due to the public having to comply with government advice re social isolation. The business is temporarily non-viable but that won't be the case forever.

    Whoever is suitable for the scheme and whoever Hibs can furlough whilst playing by the rules, will be. As mentioned in the statement, a core staff will be kept on and will be continuing to be paid (for example, whoever actually worked on the nuts and bolts of this statement being released). The players will probably earn too much and Hibs will have negotiated them down to an appropriate level of income for a defined period. It will mean that Hibs' own cash reserves won't bleed away quite as quickly.

    I've done the same at my work, I've got it down to the minimal possible outgoings whilst there is nothing coming in. It's now just a case of waiting to see if there's enough in the bank to cover what bleeds away before we can get up and running again, and then hopefully there will be normal/ increased demand for our services at that point.

    The BBC post has been amended to say that first team squad is included in the furlough.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe6-2 View Post
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    Sky telling us it’s due to ‘financial difficulties’
    That’s because it is, every busy whose revenue stream has come to a complete stop will have financial difficulties, no point in dressing it up.

  8. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)
    Who is to say they haven't developed their own customised conditioning programs? Keeping fit and training are two different things.

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Would be surprised if the players were furloughed.

  10. #39
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    Quite simply hibs class.

    Hearts the complete opposite.

    Nothing new.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs4185 View Post
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    Quite simply hibs class.

    Hearts the complete opposite.

    Nothing new.

    Budge is absolutely all over the place.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52160117

  12. #41
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    It is very confusing.Not quite sure how you can be deferred and furloughed at the same time.I imagine it means that the players are now considered to be laid off from any club involvement.The BBC post has definitely been amended so the above posts are wrong if the BBC are right.
    Two separate things.

    Furloughing means that the government will pay 80% of the normal salary which is capped at £2500. The employer is under no obligation to pay the other 20% but in this case Hibs will pay the entire balance of the salary at a future date which is the deferment.

    So A Player is on £3k per week ie £156k per year or £13k per month and accepts a 50% deferment to £6.5k. The government pays £2k (ie 80% of £2500) because the player is on furlough and the club pays £4.5k now. The balance of £6.5k will be paid by the club to the player at a future date.
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  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrie View Post
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    Two separate things.

    Furloughing means that the government will pay 80% of the normal salary which is capped at £2500. The employer is under no obligation to pay the other 20% but in this case Hibs will pay the entire balance of the salary at a future date which is the deferment.

    So A Player is on £3k per week ie £156k per year or £13k per month and accepts a 50% deferment to £6.5k. The government pays £2k (ie 80% of £2500) because the player is on furlough and the club pays £4.5k now. The balance of £6.5k will be paid by the club to the player at a future date.
    That is not how the scheme works. Its not designed to top up a salary but to replace it.

  14. #43
    Left by mutual consent! Peevemor's Avatar
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    I think the club have done well and it's good that it appears that everyone has pulled together to work things out.

    A few of my own thoughts:

    Firstly Hibs will be as well advised as possible on the mechanics and legality of the furlough scheme.

    Any player training/keeping fit on his own, even if using a programme prepared by the club, isn't breaking the furlough rules. Sports men and women, amateur and professional, stay fit. It's what they do. Even players out of contract (and therefore without an employer) stay in shape.

    The top earning players will be "losing" the most money. Assuming calculations are being based on basic wages, there'll be no appearance money, win bonuses, etc. If the games aren't played then these are earnings that aren't deferred but simply lost.

    Hibs are missing out on £0.5 - £1m in income until the end of the season. It could have been more if we reached the cup final, but it could also have been less (semi). In the past Hibs budgets included for reaching the quarter finals of the cup competitions, though I don't know if this is still the case.

    The real unknown will be ST sales for next season. It's great that 2k have already done their bit and more will do so in the weeks and months to come, but unfortunately many will be simply unable to do so and this is what will affect the club most and also remains the biggest unknown going forward.

  15. #44
    Left by mutual consent! Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    Budge is absolutely all over the place.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52160117
    "I have a legal obligation to transfer majority ownership to the fans and I also have a moral obligation not to burden the club with football debt, that can never be written off," Budge said.

    Implying other debt can be written off? Who'd've thunk it?

  16. #45
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby View Post
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    That is not how the scheme works. Its not designed to top up a salary but to replace it.
    It doesn't replace the salary but subsidises it as the employer still pays the cash and then is reimbursed. The intention is to avoid redundancies by covering up to 80% of salary cost (capped at 80% of £2500) with anything over that being paid by the employer. Per .Gov

    At a minimum, employers must pay their employee the lower of 80% of their regular wage or £2,500 per month. An employer can also choose to top up an employee’s salary beyond this but is not obliged to under this scheme.
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  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrie View Post
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    It doesn't replace the salary but subsidises it as the employer still pays the cash and then is reimbursed. The intention is to avoid redundancies by covering up to 80% of salary cost (capped at 80% of £2500) with anything over that being paid by the employer. Per .Gov
    The cap is £2,500, not 80% of £2,500.

    Otherwise, agreed :)
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 03-04-2020 at 07:13 PM.

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)
    The statement is pretty clear that the players are being furloughed.

  19. #48
    First Team Breakthrough JDT's Avatar
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    This may have been covered in another thread but is there a way to help the club? I'd be happy to buy from the shop but I'm not sure how much the club would make and I'd prefer a more direct way of giving money

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    Be interesting to know in these strange times, who furloughs the like of Kamberi. Can both clubs do it?

  21. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Be interesting to know in these strange times, who furloughs the like of Kamberi. Can both clubs do it?
    It depends if he's being paid by both clubs at the moment.

    If he is then I don't see why not since the scheme is open to every employer in the UK who pays an employee through PAYE as of 28th February.

    The government would pay up to £2500 per month per club.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    It depends if he's being paid by both clubs at the moment.

    If he is then I don't see why not since the scheme is open to every employer in the UK who pays an employee through PAYE as of 28th February.

    The government would pay up to £2500 per month per club.
    He's our employee, so only we can furlough him.

    We will have to come to an agreement with Rangers.

  23. #52
    Left by mutual consent! Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    It depends if he's being paid by both clubs at the moment.

    If he is then I don't see why not since the scheme is open to every employer in the UK who pays an employee through PAYE as of 28th February.

    The government would pay up to £2500 per month per club.
    I think the player is always paid by the parent club, who are reimbursed by the borrowing club.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Radium's Avatar
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    Handled in a professional way. To the staff and players affected, thank you. Like many they will have had their own concerns but have done what they can to help out at a difficult time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    The players arent being furloughed. IF they are furloughed they have to down tools and there is no training etc allowed. (even at home)
    I take it you just made that up? What rubbish. If there was any truth in your suggestion though, how would your no training thing be enforced?

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
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    Handled in a professional way. To the staff and players affected, thank you. Like many they will have had their own concerns but have done what they can to help out at a difficult time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Top post.

  27. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    He's our employee, so only we can furlough him.

    We will have to come to an agreement with Rangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I think the player is always paid by the parent club, who are reimbursed by the borrowing club.
    Fair enough I didn't know what the situation was with loan players.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamig View Post
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    I take it you just made that up? What rubbish. If there was any truth in your suggestion though, how would your no training thing be enforced?
    Exactly and in any case if it was true, they could train out with their normal working hours to get round it.

  29. #58
    First Team Regular JOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The cap is £2,500, not 80% of £2,500.

    Otherwise, agreed :)
    👍

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member 18Craig75's Avatar
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    This group of players deserve our sincere thanks for the way they’ve worked with the club to a resolution that will ultimately see the club come through this crisis in good health.

    Some of them have been given a rough time this past year, some of it justified in a football sense, but this all has an air of real class about it. Well done to the players and the club, really proud to be a Hibby. This doesn’t seem to be getting the positive media attention it deserves.

    Throw in the fans buying season tickets for a season we know nothing about yet, and you’ve got everyone associated with the club pulling together and going in the same direction - it can only stand us in good stead for when the football does return!

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by tamig View Post
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    I take it you just made that up? What rubbish. If there was any truth in your suggestion though, how would your no training thing be enforced?
    There was a bit of speculation in the press that clubs could not provide training plans to furloughed players and insist they follow them. As you’re saying though, the suggestion that furloughed players can’t keep fit (i.e., train) at home is nonsense though.

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