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  1. #61
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    There's a couple of mistakes in your statements above:

    - The accounts haven't been filed yet - they are to be filed by 31 March at the latest. The later than normal filing struck me as a little unusual but it's not a major concern. I presume there's nothing to hide in the accounts.

    - There are two charges held over the assets of the club (one being over the training ground and one being over the stadium itself). These were registered on 16 July and 12 August and held by Bydand Sports LLC (RG's Holding Company) over the club:

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

    I haven't seen these charges over HFC's assets discussed at all on this board. The major concern is whether anyone has a charge over the assets of Bydand Sports LLC which in effect means they are holding a position over the club. It's not possible to see if there are any charges over Bydand as it's a Delaware LLC and as such almost impossible to find out any information about. Considering the turmoil in the financial markets at the moment, the biggest risk to Hibs appears to be these charges. I don't suppose we would ever find out if there are any further charges up the chain until any rights are exercised but I do think it's a risk that needs to be discussed.
    Power has confirmed above that they have been filed.

    My understanding is that while there is a standing charge held, it is irrelevant unless money is borrowed from Bydand - we haven't borrowed anything therefore it's not active.

    The charge is in place to give us the option of borrowing if we need it.
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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    The fact that the charges are in place means that RG can bale out the club with immediate effect if need be, knowing that the mechanism is in place to protect his money.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy7nil View Post
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    I don't disagree but it seems like an ultimatum rather than a negotiation with players. Also it is like a very quick cliff edge fall off with no time for players and staff to assess and plan for the consequences. Most people live to their income and a 50% drop for anyone will have a huge impact.

    Surely they could have waited a couple of weeks and had a proper conversation with staff, could even have asked the players to pay all support and admin staff salaries.

    I agree others will follow but I just hope they give staff time and have open and honest conversation around why this has to happen now.

    Look at what happened to Berra there is no loyalty in football clubs empty players like sour milk.
    Just seen in the papers this morning, that there is a clause in the SPFL players contract, that if there is no games being played players wages can be withdrawn until games resume!!!
    Also, Borrusia Dortmund and Hoffenhiem have also cut players salaries by 50%.
    These times are really bad, and wait and see could cost more in the long run!!!

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    Power has confirmed above that they have been filed.

    My understanding is that while there is a standing charge held, it is irrelevant unless money is borrowed from Bydand - we haven't borrowed anything therefore it's not active.

    The charge is in place to give us the option of borrowing if we need it.
    The accounts still aren't available at Companies House. I don't know the arrangement at Hibs but it's often the case in smaller companies that the auditor takes care of the Companies House filing so the delay may be down to them. Plenty of shareholders have seen the accounts and no real concerns have been raised to I wouldn't be concerned about anything being hidden in them (that's to cocteautwin). Unless RG is a Romanov type character I'm not greatly concerned about the charges either. They're common business practice and Ron doesn't seem to be the sort of person that would be lending us other people's money.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    The accounts still aren't available at Companies House. I don't know the arrangement at Hibs but it's often the case in smaller companies that the auditor takes care of the Companies House filing so the delay may be down to them. Plenty of shareholders have seen the accounts and no real concerns have been raised to I wouldn't be concerned about anything being hidden in them (that's to cocteautwin). Unless RG is a Romanov type character I'm not greatly concerned about the charges either. They're common business practice and Ron doesn't seem to be the sort of person that would be lending us other people's money.
    The potential problem isnít the charge over HFC assets by Bydand itís the unknown possible charge over Bydandís assets by some party that we canít see due to the secrecy rules of Delaware LLCs.

    Itís the one black mark on HFCís finances and in the current financial climate I think our supporters or HSL should be vocal about having the charges removed.

  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    The potential problem isnít the charge over HFC assets by Bydand itís the unknown possible charge over Bydandís assets by some party that we canít see due to the secrecy rules of Delaware LLCs.

    Itís the one black mark on HFCís finances and in the current financial climate I think our supporters or HSL should be vocal about having the charges removed.
    OK, and Ron can tell the board to do one when we run to him looking for cash.

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    The potential problem isnít the charge over HFC assets by Bydand itís the unknown possible charge over Bydandís assets by some party that we canít see due to the secrecy rules of Delaware LLCs.

    Itís the one black mark on HFCís finances and in the current financial climate I think our supporters or HSL should be vocal about having the charges removed.
    I disagree strongly about having the charges removed. They give scope for Ron to inject funds into the club if necessary and removing them would not remove the risk presented by charges further up the tree. If the unthinkable were to happen Ron's creditors would take control of his shares in the club anyway whether or not the charges in the club were in place.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    OK, and Ron can tell the board to do one when we run to him looking for cash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    I disagree strongly about having the charges removed. They give scope for Ron to inject funds into the club if necessary and removing them would not remove the risk presented by charges further up the tree. If the unthinkable were to happen Ron's creditors would take control of his shares in the club anyway whether or not the charges in the club were in place.
    Itís interesting to have this discussion. My own personal opinion is that as he is majority owner he should have the confidence in his own stewardship that Hibs should be a well run club and he therefore shouldnít need to protect any investment by a charge over the assets. Thereís no real NEED for the charges to exist.

    My biggest concern about the charges, and I know this is controversial, is that removal of the charges would give the fans confidence that the purchase of the club wasnít financed by a bank that has taken a charge over the asset further up the chain. With the charges sitting there it means there will always be a suspicion over the financing of the transaction.

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    Itís interesting to have this discussion. My own personal opinion is that as he is majority owner he should have the confidence in his own stewardship that Hibs should be a well run club and he therefore shouldnít need to protect any investment by a charge over the assets. Thereís no real NEED for the charges to exist.

    My biggest concern about the charges, and I know this is controversial, is that removal of the charges would give the fans confidence that the purchase of the club wasnít financed by a bank that has taken a charge over the asset further up the chain. With the charges sitting there it means there will always be a suspicion over the financing of the transaction.
    The charges were put in place after Ron purchased the club. Had it happened simultaneously then eyebrows might have been raised.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    The charges were put in place after Ron purchased the club. Had it happened simultaneously then eyebrows might have been raised.
    The new loan and the charges could easily both have taken place after the purchase of the club.

    (I'm not saying he took out a loan to purchase the club, just mere speculation and another slightly possible reason as to why the charges exist).

  12. #71
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    I hope Ron took
    The opportunity to inject more cash when the pound was showing at 1.15 dollars earlier this week🤗

  13. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    It’s interesting to have this discussion. My own personal opinion is that as he is majority owner he should have the confidence in his own stewardship that Hibs should be a well run club and he therefore shouldn’t need to protect any investment by a charge over the assets. There’s no real NEED for the charges to exist.

    My biggest concern about the charges, and I know this is controversial, is that removal of the charges would give the fans confidence that the purchase of the club wasn’t financed by a bank that has taken a charge over the asset further up the chain. With the charges sitting there it means there will always be a suspicion over the financing of the transaction.
    My point is that removing the charges in HFC would not reduce the risk further up the chain. Ron does not own the stadium, he owns shares in the club and those shares are the assets that would be carrying any charge on Ron. If another entity held charges on ER it would be reported in the accounts - like you I haven't seen the accounts but no one who has has suggested that that's the case. They would also be registered at Companies House.

    The point about having a charge over the stadium etc is that if the club did have to go into administration they are preserved by the holding company and can be retained for when the club resumes solvent trading. If the holding company is insolvent we're f****d whether or not the charges exist. In other words, there's more reasons to have them than not to have them.

  14. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by cocteautwin View Post
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    The potential problem isnít the charge over HFC assets by Bydand itís the unknown possible charge over Bydandís assets by some party that we canít see due to the secrecy rules of Delaware LLCs.

    Itís the one black mark on HFCís finances and in the current financial climate I think our supporters or HSL should be vocal about having the charges removed.
    Behave yourself. Bet you typed thag while queuing at Tesco to panic buy bog roll.

  15. #74
    I'm confident in our finances and the financial decision makers in our club

  16. #75
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Now is probably the time to offer a disgracefully low amount of money to Dunfermline for Nisbet if we still want him.


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  17. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Now is probably the time to offer a disgracefully low amount of money to Dunfermline for Nisbet if we still want him.


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  18. #77
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    We should put a low bid in for Morelos as well.

    Then we can play him up front with Kamberi next season.

  19. #78
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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  20. #79
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    Heard Fraser Wishart on Sportsound today. Heís hoping the government 80% contribution applies to footballers
    One of the panel suggested, with part time players, can the day employer and the club both claim for the same person? Presume they are on PAYE at both employers

  21. #80
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Heard Fraser Wishart on Sportsound today. Heís hoping the government 80% contribution applies to footballers
    One of the panel suggested, with part time players, can the day employer and the club both claim for the same person? Presume they are on PAYE at both employers
    Don't know the detail of the system, but I don't see why not.

    Edit: up to the £2,500. They wouldn't be able to claim £2,000 through either source and take away £4,000.

  22. #81
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    I'm sure I heard the 80% thing is being done though PAYE. If someone has 2 sources of income on which they pay tax then I'm sure the Inland Revenue will make sure the £2,500pm isn't breached.
    Space to let

  23. #82
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    I see Aberdeen are next to report proposed losses with no games being played, £5 million!!!!
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52006599

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