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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Free buses for kids

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...mpression=true

    Obviously greens are big time in favour of buses but Iím not sure this is a great use of public money. Still, Iíve got a 13 and a 9 year old who will make good use of it Iím sure.


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  3. #2
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...mpression=true

    Obviously greens are big time in favour of buses but Iím not sure this is a great use of public money. Still, Iíve got a 13 and a 9 year old who will make good use of it Iím sure.


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    Wish they'd had that when I was a bairn.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Good constructive engagement from the greens. A good outcome all round. Let's see who supports it, and who sits on their hands


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    I'm not sure of the thinking behind it but if it helps families where money's tight, reduces car use with parents not driving their kids everywhere and gets people used to using public transport then all good for me.

  6. #5
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Could turn the top deck of buses into youth clubs, handy for my wee nephew though.

  7. #6
    Testimonial Due Hibby Bairn's Avatar
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    Headline grabber. But I can see the thinking around trying to change the culture towards encouraging greater lifetime use of public transport.

    Iíd actually like to see free public transport for all in cities. No idea how to pay for it but I think it would dramatically change how we travel around the city.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    I agree with free travel for all in the biggest of cities, we really need to do something radical to unclog the arteries from the exponential growth in private cars in town.
    But, if we're working with restricted financial options, I'd much prefer to see means tested free travel across all age groups. Public transport is vital to free flowing traffic in the cities but accessible transportation is just as important to the active workers. What good is free travel when you're retired when relatively low paid workers are having to pay £60 a month out of their meagre pay packet?

  9. #8
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...mpression=true

    Obviously greens are big time in favour of buses but Iím not sure this is a great use of public money. Still, Iíve got a 13 and a 9 year old who will make good use of it Iím sure.


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    Buses are free in London but the tube and train charge. Costs my son (so by extension it costs me) £17 a week to go to school.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    I agree with free travel for all in the biggest of cities, we really need to do something radical to unclog the arteries from the exponential growth in private cars in town.
    But, if we're working with restricted financial options, I'd much prefer to see means tested free travel across all age groups. Public transport is vital to free flowing traffic in the cities but accessible transportation is just as important to the active workers. What good is free travel when you're retired when relatively low paid workers are having to pay £60 a month out of their meagre pay packet?
    Old folk use their bus passes to go places on day trips and longer. You'd be surprised at the numbers, which I've forgotten. But lot of wee and some bigger towns across the country rely on all these old codgers visiting and spending their money.

    My wife and I probably do 20 to 40 trips a year, depending on the weather, spending anything between £50 and £100 a time (sometimes even more when my wife spots a bargain).

    It also keeps them active so they will probably maintain a better wellbeing meaning less reliance on public services.


    As for the young folk getting free travel it will certainly be a boon for the less well off who will be more likely to take full advantage.
    Space to let

  11. #10
    There was a report today that showed the use of public transport has fallen drastically in the last 5 years whilst car ownership is at an all time high.

    Any idea that tempts people put their cars and onto public transport is worth exploring imo.

  12. #11
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    There was a report today that showed the use of public transport has fallen drastically in the last 5 years whilst car ownership is at an all time high.

    Any idea that tempts people put their cars and onto public transport is worth exploring imo.
    Iíve got a map somewhere that shows the areas where most journeys are taken by car. The (few) exceptions are Glasgow, Edinburgh, Oxford, Cambridge and London.

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Old folk use their bus passes to go places on day trips and longer. You'd be surprised at the numbers, which I've forgotten. But lot of wee and some bigger towns across the country rely on all these old codgers visiting and spending their money.

    My wife and I probably do 20 to 40 trips a year, depending on the weather, spending anything between £50 and £100 a time (sometimes even more when my wife spots a bargain).

    It also keeps them active so they will probably maintain a better wellbeing meaning less reliance on public services.


    As for the young folk getting free travel it will certainly be a boon for the less well off who will be more likely to take full advantage.
    I agree with everything you say, but if "old" folk can afford to pay, why shouldn't they, that's one of my many poorly put forward points.
    I completely get there's a social enabling with a free bus pass for many people in our society. But not all pensioners need this amenity. There's a cost to the local authority for every journey. My neighbours first use of his free bus pass was to go to Perth (from Edinburgh) and buy a pack of toilet roll from a Nisa there,,,,c'mon!
    I'm not against free travel for those that need it, but feel it should either be free for all (not going to happen) or free for those that need it.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Green Man's Avatar
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    The Greensí ultimate aim is fully free public transport. While I think thatís a wholly unrealistic target, this is a step towards that and one that Iím completely in favour of.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member McSwanky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    My neighbours first use of his free bus pass was to go to Perth (from Edinburgh) and buy a pack of toilet roll from a Nisa there,,,,c'mon!
    Eh? Was it a particularly fine brand of toilet roll?!?! You'd think they'd get a couple of packs while they were there!

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  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    I swear down, that's true. One 4-pack of charmins finest!

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    I agree with everything you say, but if "old" folk can afford to pay, why shouldn't they, that's one of my many poorly put forward points.
    I completely get there's a social enabling with a free bus pass for many people in our society. But not all pensioners need this amenity. There's a cost to the local authority for every journey. My neighbours first use of his free bus pass was to go to Perth (from Edinburgh) and buy a pack of toilet roll from a Nisa there,,,,c'mon!
    I'm not against free travel for those that need it, but feel it should either be free for all (not going to happen) or free for those that need it.
    Yeah that's the attitude I had till I became an honoured citizen in the USA AKA a sponging undeserving old git in the UK.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    I agree with everything you say, but if "old" folk can afford to pay, why shouldn't they, that's one of my many poorly put forward points.
    I completely get there's a social enabling with a free bus pass for many people in our society. But not all pensioners need this amenity. There's a cost to the local authority for every journey. My neighbours first use of his free bus pass was to go to Perth (from Edinburgh) and buy a pack of toilet roll from a Nisa there,,,,c'mon!
    I'm not against free travel for those that need it, but feel it should either be free for all (not going to happen) or free for those that need it.
    I can only say for my wife and I. I gave up my gas guzzling 7 series BMW just before I retired and my wife gave hers up just after she retired. No danger we'd have given up both the cars if we didn't have our bus passes.

    I've remembered another thing about those lesser used rural bus routes. If it wasn't for the old folks some routes wouldn't be viable for companies to run so would either need subsidies, would reduce frequencies or stop running altogether. A huge loss to those living in those rural communities and together with what I said earlier keeping some of those places a viable place for people to live and work.
    Space to let

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member MartinfaePorty's Avatar
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    I understand the arguments regarding means testing, but I seem to remember an explanation from someone (may have been around free prescriptions) saying that if you introduce this the cost of the adminstration negated any savings.

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  20. #19
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    https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-france-dunkirk-free-transportation-bus-success-climate-cities

    Dunkirk

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    I can only say for my wife and I. I gave up my gas guzzling 7 series BMW just before I retired and my wife gave hers up just after she retired. No danger we'd have given up both the cars if we didn't have our bus passes.

    I've remembered another thing about those lesser used rural bus routes. If it wasn't for the old folks some routes wouldn't be viable for companies to run so would either need subsidies, would reduce frequencies or stop running altogether. A huge loss to those living in those rural communities and together with what I said earlier keeping some of those places a viable place for people to live and work.
    Again, I agree with most of what you say. I still have the gas guzzling BMW but rarely drive it, it hasn't turned a wheel for 3 weeks. I'm fortunate enough to live close to some of the best bus links in our city and champion public transport wherever possible. I can't see myself getting a private car again after I tire of this current one.

    Re rural routes, again, they can be a lifeline for many but most aren't actually viable. They are heavily subsidised by the LA and you're probably right in that most of the passengers will be of an age that qualifies them for free (at point of use) travel. I fondly remember the old post buses you used to get in the more rural parts of the country, they ceased to be primarily because they weren't cost effective.

    Sticking to the original post, I have nothing against free travel for those that need it, but the money pot is finite, is it not fair that those who can afford to pay should? Reading between the lines, it looks like the Greens won this concession at the cost of the Sherriffhall fly-over(well, it's being reviewed).
    Again, balancing the books is difficult, mobilising the work force and maintaining community links is a great thing, but it shouldn't be at the expense of something else.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinfaePorty View Post
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    I understand the arguments regarding means testing, but I seem to remember an explanation from someone (may have been around free prescriptions) saying that if you introduce this the cost of the adminstration negated any savings.

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    That's the theory.

    I'm maybe missing something but where is the money coming from to fund this. presumably something had to give way in the budget to create space for it.

    I use the bus a lot, and think it's a good idea generally... Until I start struggling to get a seat cause there's 100 teenagers on every bus for a laugh...
    Mon the Hibs.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    That's the theory.

    I'm maybe missing something but where is the money coming from to fund this. presumably something had to give way in the budget to create space for it.

    I use the bus a lot, and think it's a good idea generally... Until I start struggling to get a seat cause there's 100 teenagers on every bus for a laugh...
    The insinuation on various media reports is that the Greens agreed to the budget to get it over the line and in return they received assurances that they'd get the free bus travel and the Sherriffhall fly-over would be "reviewed", they also wanted to cease upgrade works on the A9/A96 but this was refused.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-france-dunkirk-free-transportation-bus-success-climate-cities

    Dunkirk

    Dinan, the town where I work, introduced a free bus network just over a year ago and it's been a huge success.

    https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne...-en-un-6647303

    Public transport (or the lack of it) has been my biggest bugbear since moving here. Not enough is provided beacuse people don't use it, but people aren't in the habit of using it because there isn't enough.

    This initiative is getting people into the habit of using it again so may aven start to consider using the bus to go further afield even if it isn't free.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Dinan, the town where I work, introduced a free bus network just over a year ago and it's been a huge success.

    https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne...-en-un-6647303

    Public transport (or the lack of it) has been my biggest bugbear since moving here. Not enough is provided beacuse people don't use it, but people aren't in the habit of using it because there isn't enough.

    This initiative is getting people into the habit of using it again so may aven start to consider using the bus to go further afield even if it isn't free.
    Thanks for the article, was an interesting read. I like the idea of a "transport payment" paid by companies with more 12 or more employees.
    I am based in the Gyle, although it is served well by bus, tram & train, the amount of private cars that come in from all directions is phenomenal. A nominal "tax" on the many large companies there could make a huge difference. I'd really like to see an expansion of the shuttle buses (RBS) that currently go between the stations and bigger offices. Extending a service to the nearby park and rides would surely entice folk out their cars for the last mile!?!

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Dinan, the town where I work, introduced a free bus network just over a year ago and it's been a huge success.

    https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne...-en-un-6647303

    Public transport (or the lack of it) has been my biggest bugbear since moving here. Not enough is provided beacuse people don't use it, but people aren't in the habit of using it because there isn't enough.

    This initiative is getting people into the habit of using it again so may aven start to consider using the bus to go further afield even if it isn't free.
    The problem we have in Edinburgh at present, is that the excellent public bus system is being dismantled to provide a tram line that benefits a fraction of the population (and tourists, hoteliers and property developers.) I often find myself putting off making a journey across town because of the delays in the city centre.

    I suppose the big problem for getting people out of their cars involves the fact that the more public transport journeys are made, the less cars on the road, making it easier for motorists to get around.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    The problem we have in Edinburgh at present, is that the excellent public bus system is being dismantled to provide a tram line that benefits a fraction of the population (and tourists, hoteliers and property developers.) I often find myself putting off making a journey across town because of the delays in the city centre.

    I suppose the big problem for getting people out of their cars involves the fact that the more public transport journeys are made, the less cars on the road, making it easier for motorists to get around.
    Tram is much quicker through town than the buses. The buses are a shambles trying to get to a match on a Saturday.

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Thanks for the article, was an interesting read. I like the idea of a "transport payment" paid by companies with more 12 or more employees.
    I am based in the Gyle, although it is served well by bus, tram & train, the amount of private cars that come in from all directions is phenomenal. A nominal "tax" on the many large companies there could make a huge difference. I'd really like to see an expansion of the shuttle buses (RBS) that currently go between the stations and bigger offices. Extending a service to the nearby park and rides would surely entice folk out their cars for the last mile!?!
    There are also non compulsory schemes where businesses can club together to provide crŤches and staff canteens/restaurants. These are open to all, but people employed by the firms who contribute get huge reductions.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    Tram is much quicker through town than the buses. The buses are a shambles trying to get to a match on a Saturday.
    Which illustrates my point. The buses are being forced to give way to the tram.

    Only used it a couple of times. Great between Edinburgh Park and Haymarket, pathetic going to the airport, 100 bus gets there in half the time.

    The thing is an absolute joke, and serves very few people.

    And it doesn't take you to the football, it takes you to York Place.

    Trolley buses would have done the same as trams, if not better, at a fraction of the cost.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Which illustrates my point. The buses are being forced to give way to the tram.

    Only used it a couple of times. Great between Edinburgh Park and Haymarket, pathetic going to the airport, 100 bus gets there in half the time.

    The thing is an absolute joke, and serves very few people.

    And it doesn't take you to the football, it takes you to York Place.

    Trolley buses would have done the same as trams, if not better, at a fraction of the cost.
    It's a joke during the festival. Constantly held up on the way into town but other than that it's great.

    Trouble with buses in the busy stretches is the volume of stops. Too many, and you end up with buses cutting each other off trying to get in/out every 300 yards.

  31. #30
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Thanks for the article, was an interesting read. I like the idea of a "transport payment" paid by companies with more 12 or more employees.
    I am based in the Gyle, although it is served well by bus, tram & train, the amount of private cars that come in from all directions is phenomenal. A nominal "tax" on the many large companies there could make a huge difference. I'd really like to see an expansion of the shuttle buses (RBS) that currently go between the stations and bigger offices. Extending a service to the nearby park and rides would surely entice folk out their cars for the last mile!?!
    Are you suggesting a levy on work place parking? Shirley not.
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

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