Famous Five Lower - Singing Section v ICT

[h1bs4life]

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I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

Keep seeing shut the upper tiers for certain cup games , what are these certain cup games?
Could you explain how that would work in real world. Capacity with top tiers closed approximately 12000. Usually about 3 weeks between ties.
Potentially 13500 season ticket holders going for 12000 seats. No reserved seats anywhere, majority not able to add it to there season ticket so its print at home , get it posted at extra cost , extra work for the ticket office staff or head up to Easter Road to pick it up.
If for some reason bigger pick up than expected then open up top tiers and sell them.
What about replays against smaller teams?

[Peevemor]

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So you think there is no need for the support to be aware that we have a designated "Supporter Liaison Officer"?

Surely his title is a misnomer then?

As I mentioned previously, I would have thought a prerequisite of being "Supporter Liaison Officer" would be to make our support aware of his position and his remit.

Seemingly not though.

Not necessarily, no.

If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

As it stands the SLO will deal with the appropriate queries/issues that are passed on to him.

If you need something dealt with that's falls under his remit, you'll be put on to him whether or not you knew he existed.

[Peevemor]

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If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.

Who's doing the complaining here?

[hibeerealist]

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If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.

You are very much against this Peevemor I aint got time to go through all the different posts just interested to hear why you and maybe some others are dead against?

This might help me understand all this animosity between Hibs fans.

[hibbysam]

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Keep seeing shut the upper tiers for certain cup games , what are these certain cup games?
Could you explain how that would work in real world. Capacity with top tiers closed approximately 12000. Usually about 3 weeks between ties.
Potentially 13500 season ticket holders going for 12000 seats. No reserved seats anywhere, majority not able to add it to there season ticket so its print at home , get it posted at extra cost , extra work for the ticket office staff or head up to Easter Road to pick it up.
If for some reason bigger pick up than expected then open up top tiers and sell them.
What about replays against smaller teams?

Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.

[Chorley Hibee]

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Not necessarily, no.

If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

As it stands the SLO will deal with the appropriate queries/issues that are passed on to him.

If you need something dealt with that's falls under his remit, you'll be put on to him whether or not you knew he existed.

It's interesting then that various other club's SLOs have made themselves visible to their support and embraced supporter engagement.

Meanwhile our SLO stays in the shadows and awaits items within his remit being passed to him.

I know which one of the above appeals to me as a supporter.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Who's doing the complaining here?

You?...

Right let’s walk through this shall we.

Post number one was from somebody within the singing section:

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Now that the season ticket priority is over and sales in the famous five lower have been poor, we are going to use this opportunity to try this area as a singing section for the game.

We encourage anyone that would like to create a great atmosphere and back the team into a semi final to join us.

We as a group will be in and around section 19.

If you have already bought tickets elsewhere, we are sure the ticket office would help in changing your ticket to the FF lower.

We understand that people have already bought tickets in this area. We hope us moving there won't cause too much inconvenience and if you do not want to be a part of it, you won't mind moving to one of the many empty areas in the Famous Five.

Here is the very first reply - a complaint:

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We’re at the edge of 20 and if you’re all standing and my old man who has a bad knee can’t see - it’ll kick off.
Are you all being instructed not to stand?

People like you and a few others (I think the .net rules mean I’m not supposed to name posters so I’ll refrain from doing so) descend onto this thread and begin the very boring routine of circling the wagons. I could find another ten threads where basically identical posts have been written by posters with your school of thought.

People who are pro the section moving grow less and less conciliatory and diplomatic towards you as you become more and more stubborn. What is the point in doing so when you keep throwing back the same tired nonsense?

[Peevemor]

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You are very much against this Peevemor I aint got time to go through all the different posts just interested to hear why you and maybe some others are dead against?

This might help me understand all this animosity between Hibs fans.

I'm not against anything other than people wrongly and unfairly criticising the club.

Some people are very vocally accusing the club of going back on an agreement which I don't believe was ever in place.

Now the same people are having a go at family stand ST holders who don't necessarily want the singing section in beside them.

Having the singing section in the FF lower might be a great idea, but it's not something that's going to happen mid season.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.

It’s not hard, but this is .net and what a select few posters on here excel at doing is creating problems that don’t currently, and may never, exist. It’s a shame as they spoil what is largely a good forum. It’s an instinctive, reactionary style of bureaucracy that they are specialists in.

[Chorley Hibee]

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If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

You make an interesting point here, and I think this is exactly what is happening with many supporters and Kieran right now.

I think that is because many supporters aren't even aware we have a Supporters Liaison Officer and are taking queries etc to Kieran instead.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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I'm not against anything other than people wrongly and unfairly criticising the club.

Some people are very vocally accusing the club of going back on an agreement which I don't believe was ever in place.

Now the same people are having a go at family stand ST holders who don't necessarily want the singing section in beside them.

Having the singing section in the FF lower might be a great idea, but it's not something that's going to happen mid season.

Show me the posts of people having a go a FFL ST holders please?

[Peevemor]

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It's interesting then that various other club's SLOs have made themselves visible to their support and embraced supporter engagement.

Meanwhile our SLO stays in the shadows and awaits items within his remit being passed to him.

I know which one of the above appeals to me as a supporter.

What does it matter as long as you're put on to the appropriate person to deal with your query/issue?

I honestly don't see the problem.

[Peevemor]

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You?...

Right let’s walk through this shall we.

Post number one was from somebody within the singing section:



Here is the very first reply - a complaint:


People like you and a few others (I think the .net rules mean I’m not supposed to name posters so I’ll refrain from doing so) descend onto this thread and begin the very boring routine of circling the wagons. I could find another ten threads where basically identical posts have been written by posters with your school of thought.

People who are pro the section moving grow less and less conciliatory and diplomatic towards you as you become more and more stubborn. What is the point in doing so when you keep throwing back the same tired nonsense?

Show me where I've complained.

I've objected to people complain unjustly.

[Peevemor]

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Show me the posts of people having a go a FFL ST holders please?

For example.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=6094723

There are a few posts having a go at the 15/20/50 whatever people who are blocking the move (which was never happening anyway).

[Chuck Rhoades]

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For example.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=6094723

There are a few posts having a go at the 15/20/50 whatever people who are blocking the move (which was never happening anyway).

Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.

[h1bs4life]

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Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.

Its not really hard?? Everybody that buys a ticket has access to a printer right enough . All to be done in a couple of weeks or less for replays. Scramble for tickets as soon as they are announced.Try living in the real world , you think thousands of people trying to get seats as soon as they go on sale and having to get tickets printed at home or otherwise just so we can create a better atmoshpere is progress ? More likely say stuff this hassle not going .

[Peevemor]

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Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.

I've seen 15 and 20 mentioned.

[hibbysam]

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Its not really hard?? Everybody that buys a ticket has access to a printer right enough . All to be done in a couple of weeks or less for replays. Scramble for tickets as soon as they are announced.Try living in the real world , you think thousands of people trying to get seats as soon as they go on sale and having to get tickets printed at home or otherwise just so we can create a better atmoshpere is progress ? More likely say stuff this hassle not going .

Technically everyone that buys a ticket does have access to a printer... however ignoring that point, we don’t have thousands of people trying to get tickets for these games, that’s the point in this experiment. On average we get between 5-10k tops home fans for these games, majority of which buy tickets late on. We only sold about 1/2000 tickets in the priority window, meaning 80% of my top end 10,000 attendance figure would need to do exactly what you say we don’t want folk doing. This IS the real world, with facts from our own supports purchasing history.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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(which was never happening anyway).

Why are you so convinced that you know things? Singing section posted a thread in here about a move on Friday that was never happening just for a laugh did they? Or maybe they did get something sorted with the club, only for the usual complainants to get wind of it and kick up a fuss, which made the club scrap it before they could officially announce it themselves.

You seem to be very naïve in that you think things don’t exist until they are officially confirmed. There’s a lot of background and preliminary stuff that goes into almost any decision ever.

It would be nice if whoever’s behind the Since1875 account on here could shed some light on this though. Think I’m right in saying that nothing’s been said by them since the first post.

[Chorley Hibee]

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What does it matter as long as you're put on to the appropriate person to deal with your query/issue?

I honestly don't see the problem.

My last answer to you mentioned how I think many items are being passed to Kieran that should be dealt with by our SLO.

The very definition of a Liaison Officer is "A person who liaises between two organizations to communicate and coordinate their activities".

Do you think our SLO is communicating with our support on issues such as the FFL?

I would say no, especially as the majority of fans aren't even aware he exists.

[Pretty Boy]

I may be well wide of the mark but I can't help but think there is a desire amongst some, not necessarily the section as an entire entity, to create a bit of an us and them mentality and go to war with the club and other fans.

I've said a million times before that it's possible to build something from the ground up whilst still remaining on good terms with the people you require assistance from, in fact it's critical. I regularly pitch in my day job and the one thing that guarantees you will fail is if you go into any meeting/presentation with a list of things the other party can do for you. For this to succeed it requires a sense of timing, a list of benefits with supporting evidence and solutions to every potential problem the club will throw back at the idea. Without that these situations and conversations are destined to continue ad nauseam.

The fact is a group of 50-60 fans aren't going to be able to do this by force. It's going to require engagement with the wider support. I've offered some advice to a couple of individuals in the past that has gone unheeded. The current strategy is destined to fail.

[Irish_Steve]

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The entitlement in this thread is giving me the boak!

Exactly. Fans thinking they are Uber fans and can tell other ST holders where to sit.

And I wish that bloody drummer knew how to keep time

[Power]

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Happy to detail where I am with this - there’s certainly been discussions between the group and the club but I’ve only got half the information - not clear to me on either side who is leading but they’ll be working together but timing has always been against both parties on this

(I’ve got my information from a member of the group - definitely good to be kept informed - only having a bit of detail on this is fair enough, this is a specific scenario and I’m not the Supporter Liaison Officer but I’m more than happy to help where I can in these situations, just need to be kept in the loop).

Sure we’ll find out more in the next 24 hours as to next steps, if any.

Moving forward what I can try and influence is our approach - I want to find a solution that suits all - club and support (collective) - there’s quite a number of stakeholders, teams and people involved on both sides, including the wider support.

It’s not a straightforward position (look at this thread for example, the previous survey feedback, etc). This forum is just a small snapshot of a big support too. The last thing we want to do is make rushed plans/initiatives/trials (but noted there does need to be a starting point somewhere/sometime) - ALL parties want the experience at Easter Road to be the best/work, definitely nobody I’ve met or spoke to wanting or pushing it to be anything other because of X.
Difficult one to balance all the views (Club and support) and specific sensitivities - areas, seat priorities, views, pricing, atmosphere etc - there will be a solution in there - the group does contribute a lot to matchday experience/stadium atmosphere (agreed by all) and we should make every effort to accommodate them as best we can. Flipped, the club want to cater for every Hibs fan, everyone is equal and respected and any change needs to work comfortably.

This thread has caught fire since I last logged on at lunchtime (nae need to finger point at any certain group, club department or individual - from my experiences of dealing with the club and various people in different departments they want the same thing in the main as supporters that I speak to - there’s always a valid reason why a decision is made or we do X instead of Y, that’s whether I agree or not).

There is good arguments all around, barry information & insight and ideas - As mentioned above, I’ll work with the club to find a positive solution (was already part of my supporter feedback for February to the board before this thread) but what it does need is everyone to pull in the right direction. I’ve not heard from Club or Since 1875 today so can’t comment more.

Opinion is only my own as a supporter that sits in the back row of section 40 East - I would strongly recommend Since 1875 move into one of the 9 sections of the East Stand for this game. Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club). Ultimately if they choose to stay in section 25, then that’s great for Friday too.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.

[Pretty Boy]

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This thread has caught fire since I last logged on at lunchtime (nae need to finger point at any certain group, club department or individual - from my experiences of dealing with the club and various people in different departments they want the same thing in the main as supporters that I speak to - there’s always a valid reason why a decision is made or we do X instead of Y, that’s whether I agree or not).

There is good arguments all around, barry information & insight and ideas - As mentioned above, I’ll work with the club to find a positive solution (was already part of my supporter feedback for February to the board before this thread) but what it does need is everyone to pull in the right direction. I’ve not heard from Club or Since 1875 today so can’t comment more.

Opinion is only my own as a supporter that sits in the back row of section 40 East - I would strongly recommend Since 1875 move into one of the 9 sections of the East Stand for this game. Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club). Ultimately if they choose to stay in section 25, then that’s great for Friday too.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.

2nd last paragraph is spot on and what I was trying to say in 3 clumsy paragraphs, you said in a few words.

It's an area that is going to require majority consensus and that means working with ALL parties who will be impacted.

[Hibbyradge]

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Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.

Jeez. Of course he made them up. Hence his use of the word "whatever". It was a guess.

The numbers are irrelevant however. He was asked to show where people were having a go at other fans.

[Barney McGrew]

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The “entitlement” that you’re seeing is entirely a reflection on yourself. I don’t think it’d be unfair to suggest based on your posts that you’re of an older generation and maybe have an irrational dislike of the “youth these days”

I hate to tell you, but you’re spectacularly wrong on that front

And for the record, I just have a perfectly rational dislike of groups of fans who think they’re in some way better or more important than other fans and think that because of that they should get special treatment from the club.

[hibbysam]

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I hate to tell you, but you’re spectacularly wrong on that front

And for the record, I just have a perfectly rational dislike of groups of fans who think they’re in some way better or more important than other fans and think that because of that they should get special treatment from the club.

You could wager that accusation at these families, season ticket holders etc all groups wanting what’s best for themselves.

[tamig]

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Absolutely stinking attitude from the club if this is true and they have caved in to a couple of complaints from people in an otherwise empty part of the ground.

Are you not jumping to conclusions? How do you know where the folk that made the complaints normally sit? Not a given that they were section 20 ST holders. And you seem to be another who’s keen to batter the club while knowing nothing about what has gone on.

[Barney McGrew]

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You could wager that accusation at these families, season ticket holders etc all groups wanting what’s best for themselves.

I’m sure they do. But those groups aren’t pushing for a move to another section and displacing other long standing season ticket holders as far as I’m aware?

[tamig]

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I have it on good authority that this move was verbally agreed by the club for a one-off and it has now been reversed because of the complaints made from a handful of supporters. It was going to happen, it now isn’t. And when we are kicking towards less than a 1,000, lifeless fans in the second half on Friday, I’ll know exactly which section of our support the blame lies with

What does your last sentence mean? Are you blaming the folk who will be sitting in the FFL on Friday night for the collapse of this “plan”? That’s a bit unfair is it not? I’m sure there are plenty there who would have enjoyed the upturn in atmosphere. Think you need to choose your words a bit more carefully.