Would you contribute more to Hibs?

[Scotty Leither]

Short as this thread is (at the moment) I think it should be relayed to our elusive owner post-haste.

It'll provide him with a useful bellweather of where our supporters are with the notion of more (fan-funded) infrastructure, and have more impact than any feedback he gets from the nodding dugs in the Boardroom.

[matty_f]

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There’s no real argument - it all ends up the same way.

Although these things are always cleaner when Hibs can say it all goes to football players and then they can happily take other budget away to pay for the other things a football club needs too.

That's what I was getting at, Andy. If there's money that needs to get paid out, it needs to come from somewhere.

If Gordon said he'd let the club fund the indoor pitch but he's paying £1m to the playing budget it's no different to the club paying £1m to the budget and Gordon funding the pitch.

[Andy74]

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That's what I was getting at, Andy. If there's money that needs to get paid out, it needs to come from somewhere.

If Gordon said he'd let the club fund the indoor pitch but he's paying £1m to the playing budget it's no different to the club paying £1m to the budget and Gordon funding the pitch.

Yep.

[Diclonius]

Only if there's a cast iron guarantee that every penny of such a scheme went into increasing the transfer budget and nothing else.

[Greencore]

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You up for handing him the debt money back then

Wasn't the debt owed to STF included in the sale price of Hibernian when RG bought hibernian?

[Scotty Leither]

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After the East stand was built, the money did go on the team (other than to repay debt). What else did it go on?

Meaningful money then, in the shape of decent replacements for Brown and Thomson, to name but two that departed. Not your Joe Keenans, Paddy Creggs, Danny Hayes, Rowan Vines, etc.

Remember also we were still in debt when we were sold to Gordon.

[matty_f]

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Meaningful money then, in the shape of decent replacements for Brown and Thomson, to name but two that departed. Not your Joe Keenans, Paddy Creggs, Danny Hayes, Rowan Vines, etc.

Remember also we were still in debt when we were sold to Gordon.

Do you think when Hibs sell, for example, John McGinn for (for argument's sake) £2m, we can spend £2m on his replacement?

[Scotty Leither]

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That's what I was getting at, Andy. If there's money that needs to get paid out, it needs to come from somewhere.

If Gordon said he'd let the club fund the indoor pitch but he's paying £1m to the playing budget it's no different to the club paying £1m to the budget and Gordon funding the pitch.

Eh? - If Gordon said he was funding the indoor pitch out his own pocket (which incidentally would grow his fixed asset base and exponentially the value of his investment), and any monies the fans generate would go on the team and NOTHING ELSE then he'd probably get a more significant uptake.

[Scotty Leither]

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Do you think when Hibs sell, for example, John McGinn for (for argument's sake) £2m, we can spend £2m on his replacement?

No that's not what I said - you're paraphrasing - this argument has been done before as well on here...you'll not directly replace a McGinn, Brown, Thomson or O'Connor, but we should expect something better than Hyndman on loan which was one of the first signings we made after McGinn's departure.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd like to hear his plans before I make anymore commitments with my money.

[The 90+2]

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You up for handing him the debt money back then and it can keep coming out your ticket money?

Some really pathetic attitudes to people with a bit of cash, including someone who so far has used it for the benefit of our club.

There’s much easier ways to make some more money.

You do realise that I was handing over cash and contributing before Gordon pulled the plug on the shares from HSL? Why would I want to top up how portfolio because he cleared a debt that was never going to be called I’m apart from the structure it was in.

[matty_f]

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I'd like to hear his plans before I make anymore commitments with my money.

That's where I am as well, I think.

[matty_f]

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No that's not what I said - you're paraphrasing - this argument has been done before as well on here...you'll not directly replace a McGinn, Brown, Thomson or O'Connor, but we should expect something better than Hyndman on loan which was one of the first signings we made after McGinn's departure.

Yeah the argument has been done to death and someone who didn't get it the first time isn't all of a sudden going to get it now, so I'm out.

[Greencore]

I'd like to hear what fans who have actually met with Ron has to say? Didn't he meet a couple of fans from the HSL?

[Scotty Leither]

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Yeah the argument has been done to death and someone who didn't get it the first time isn't all of a sudden going to get it now, so I'm out.

Me tae.

[Pretty Boy]

If an argument against fan ownership is that we need a 'lender of last resort' why should we be used as a lender of first resort when the business needs a cash injection? That's not arguing against buying STs and the like, that's just being customers, it's questioning why we should have to put up money beyond those basics for no guaranteed return (as you would get if shares where issued in return for said money).

Football clubs command a brand loyalty that other businesses can only dream of. Hibs claim to have turned down a major sponsorship opportunity in the summer for moral reasons but HSL are now asking fans to top up a football budget out their own pockets. This won't go down well because of said 'brand loyalty' but there comes a point where you have to say enough is enough. I say that as someone who contributed to HSL from the start but what incentive is there to continue investing? Money being spent in an unspecified manner by the 'football depratment'. Where is the accountability in such a scenario?

[eastcoasthibby]

The idea of fans contributing directly to a players budget whilst I am up for that, actually there is no guarantee it will boost our outgoings on the playing staff. What I mean is that if if we contribute say 500k a season to the playing budget what guarantee is there that the club then just take 500k out of what they have to spend and use it for something else or RG takes it out as profit ? Hence either the club benefit directly from our money in infrastructure and RG benefits by taking money out that the in haven't needed to spend. The other thing is that if the fans pay more directly and RG doesn't put anything more in, that the contributions make the team more successful and the value of the club goes up cos the playing side is more successful RG benefits again with no increased input from him, but he could sell and make a profit, without putting another bean into it.
So we pay and he gains without contributing anymore and we have nothing to show for, hence why the share scheme at least we had shares and influence on the club longer term ...if there is to be a scheme there needs to be a lot of guarantees about how all the money is spent ...and who benefits !!

[matty_f]

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If an argument against fan ownership is that we need a 'lender of last resort' why should we be used as a lender of first resort when the business needs a cash injection? That's not arguing against buying STs and the like, that's just being customers, it's questioning why we should have to put up money beyond those basics for no guaranteed return (as you would get if shares where issued in return for said money).

Football clubs command a brand loyalty that other businesses can only dream of. Hibs claim to have turned down a major sponsorship opportunity in the summer for moral reasons but HSL are now asking fans to top up a football budget out their own pockets. This won't go down well because of said 'brand loyalty' but there comes a point where you have to say enough is enough. I say that as someone who contributed to HSL from the start but what incentive is there to continue investing? Money being spent in an unspecified manner by the 'football depratment'. Where is the accountability in such a scenario?

Should be clear that HSL haven't asked fans to do anything just now.

This thread is purely done as a conversation starter about it off my own back.

Neither I nor this thread are anything to do with HSL (other than I'm a member)

[The 90+2]

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The idea of fans contributing directly to a players budget whilst I am up for that, actually there is no guarantee it will boost our outgoings on the playing staff. What I mean is that if if we contribute say 500k a season to the playing budget what guarantee is there that the club then just take 500k out of what they have to spend and use it for something else or RG takes it out as profit ? Hence either the club benefit directly from our money in infrastructure and RG benefits by taking money out that the in haven't needed to spend. The other thing is that if the fans pay more directly and RG doesn't put anything more in, that the contributions make the team more successful and the value of the club goes up cos the playing side is more successful RG benefits again with no increased input from him, but he could sell and make a profit, without putting another bean into it.
So we pay and he gains without contributing anymore and we have nothing to show for, hence why the share scheme at least we had shares and influence on the club longer term ...if there is to be a scheme there needs to be a lot of guarantees about how all the money is spent ...and who benefits !!

You just know that would happen.

[TrapperJohn]

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I would wait until our new owner lets us know the script.

I don’t think the club is being ran well enough at the moment to trust them with extra investment either.

This.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Same here. I’ve paid in perpetuity since the start and at over the minimum, but I’m steadily feeling uneasier about doing so.

exactly where I am.

I joined HSL to help get shares in the club in the hands of supporters. Then after RG took over the majority shareholding I voted to have my contributions set aside for share purchase. Now I’m told that’s not an option anymore.

im going to cancel my direct debit I think. My monthly contribution will mean very little to Hibs but it will mean a lot to me.

None of this is HSLs fault but I feel disappointed and disheartened. We were made promises in 2015 and it seems to me they’ve been broken.

[Pretty Boy]

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Should be clear that HSL haven't asked fans to do anything just now.

This thread is purely done as a conversation starter about it off my own back.

Neither I nor this thread are anything to do with HSL (other than I'm a member)

I get that.

However the email from HSL states that going forward 'all future funds will be used by the football department'. Whilst the end result of where the money ends up is essentially unchanged the return to fans is. HSL have changed what they are asking of fans, whether as a result of circumstance, or otherwise.

I stand by my previous point. If fans money, beyond that which they pay for the base product, is used to finance the everyday costs of running a football club then there should be an element of accountability. With HSL as it was that existed through the increased shareholding. That is no longer the case.

I'll be cancelling my payment to HSL until there is a clearer picture of where that money is going.

[Smartie]

I’ve not got the money right now so if Hibs are lucky I’ll continue to buy a season ticket. For one reason or another it doesn’t represent value for me any more so even that’s a stretch. I’m likely to move out of Edinburgh within the next couple of years so in all likelihood I’ll be done.

I can’t say I have a great feeling about our new owner and I’m becoming suspicious of his motives. If that continues it will be challenging to justify to my other half that I am putting significant sums of money towards making a Peruvian millionaire richer over our own daughter.

I went to my first away game of the season today, first time in a while I’ve reached the end of the month with petrol in the car and twenty odd quid in my pocket. On many levels it was fun to do again and I’ve missed it but I’d be surprised if I do it more often.

In truth though, this is more about me than about Hibs.

[Keith_M]

I'd want to hear what the new owner's plans for the club were before making a decision.

[matty_f]

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I'd want to hear what the new owner's plans for the club were before making a decision.

I think if we were seeing Ron push us on like Aberdeen's owner, or Dundee United's, folk would want to get on board with it.

I can't see many of us buying into an "I will if you will" proposition.

[Eyrie]

I'd be willing to re-start my HSL contributions, but I'd like to hear what the future plans are first.

[GreenCastle]

Currently no.

No idea what the clubs plans are and what they actually see short and long term.

ST enough plus away games etc but that doesn’t really help Hibs.

What I would like to see are more detailed break down of what Hibs are looking to support..fans could then donate and see how close they are to target..but not see specific amount.

Youth Academy
Stadium
Community projects
Fans groups (for displays etc)

At the same time though - ST aren’t value for money so not sure I would
want to spend more or trust people to use the money wisely as recent past examples show it can be easily wasted.

[Andy74]

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You do realise that I was handing over cash and contributing before Gordon pulled the plug on the shares from HSL? Why would I want to top up how portfolio because he cleared a debt that was never going to be called I’m apart from the structure it was in.

Never going to be called?

We were paying it back at 500k per year.

He paid it off and now the football club don’t need to pay that money over any more.

[Radium]

No. Money should be for a clear purpose. the fluidity of budgeting just means that the club can pretty much do what they want with the extra income.

I will listen to the plans, just hope we don’t have to wait too long





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[Andy74]

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I think if we were seeing Ron push us on like Aberdeen's owner, or Dundee United's, folk would want to get on board with it.

I can't see many of us buying into an "I will if you will" proposition.

Aberdeen’s owners will be paying largely for infrastructure. Just what we appear to be objecting to.