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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Hecky didnít get to sign a single player

    For the most part, neither did Lennon or Stubbs. Apart from their former players that is.

    In 2014 after a revolving door of managers and faceless journeymen, the Hibs board accepted a proposal for a fundamental restructuring of the club. It was based upon a model designed by the Lets Work Together Vision group and known as The Hibernian Wayí.

    The Chairmanís executive responsibilities would end and a CEO appointed. LD had been targeted eight months earlier. A Director of Football would run the football operation and the CEO the business. The DOF would recruit a Head Coach and also scout and sign players that fitted the club profile and who would play the Hibs brand of attacking football.

    Under that model there was still to be scope for Head Coach suggestions.For example Lennon wanted Vela. But ultimately the style of play and all the recruitment has been the responsibility of Graeme Mathie. The Head Coach is hired and fired by Mathie, not Dempster.

    His summer recruits were sourced for a long term future at the club and in recent months we are starting to see what he and his team saw when they were scouted. So apart from Lennonís Vela, they may yet all make the grade.

    Credit where creditís due to Mathie and his team. However jthe decision that Vela was a better DM than Bartley was a stinker of a call. That will be the last time he trusts the judgement of a Head Coach when it comes to a signing.
    Last edited by RIP; 24-01-2020 at 12:22 AM.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member 90+2's Avatar
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    Thatís complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign. Thatís the only example I know first hand but youíre telling me we wanted a Yeovil right back to replace Gray? Adam Jackson wasnít recommended by his former manager?

  4. #3
    Administrator Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    Thatís complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign. Thatís the only example I know first hand but youíre telling me we wanted a Yeovil right back to replace Gray? Adam Jackson wasnít recommended by his former manager?
    Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member 90+2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.
    Yeah, Rocky and Efe came from Lennys fav agent.

    I agree 👍. Even the lad who has just signed a pre contract at Aberdeen Stubbs brought up from Everton on loan Iím sure.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    Yeah, Rocky and Efe came from Lennys fav agent.

    I agree 👍. Even the lad who has just signed a pre contract at Aberdeen Stubbs brought up from Everton on loan Iím sure.



    Thereís a structure in place but HC gets to decide on players. They play a big role... but this is modern football.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Lennon definitely used his contacts for Efe and Commons. They wouldnít have come to Hibs otherwise. Post updated to reflect that.

    Im asking you many were Heckingbottomís signings? Thereís a thread crediting PH for the players scouted and signed by Mathie. Itís almost like some fans donít understand what changes were made after relegation. They were pretty fundamental and in line with the contemporary European model.

    As recently as this week Jack Ross said he wanted to keep Shaw. The next day he was sold.
    Last edited by RIP; 24-01-2020 at 12:27 AM.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member HoboHarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.
    Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?

  9. #8
    Administrator Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    Lennon definitely used his contacts for Efe and Commons. They wouldnít have come to Hibs otherwise

    Im asking you many were Heckingbottomís signings?
    I think they all were in as far as the club wouldn't sign them without his sign off/judgement. As for which players came from the commands of PH directly, I'm not privy to that, but Jackson wouldn't surprise me.

  10. #9
    Administrator Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoboHarry View Post
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    Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?
    I did say Commons, but yep it must have been the deciding influence.

  11. #10
    First Team Breakthrough EAZY-ME's Avatar
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    I thought hecky signed Vela

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoboHarry View Post
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    Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?
    Me in my post above buddy
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  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAZY-ME View Post
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    I thought hecky signed Vela
    Played for Lennon at Bolton. Was on Mathieís radar already
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  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member California-Hibs's Avatar
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    Delete this rubbish.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member HoboHarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    Me in my post above buddy
    Oh aye .

  16. #15
    Administrator Vault Boy's Avatar
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    The point of the recruitment department isn't to completely usurp the head coach. They provide names, data and evaluations on multiple players who fall within categories of what the HC wants.

    The HC will give the department a list of attributes/positions, as well as some personal recommendations I'm sure. The department then works with their scouting data and breaks down the most suitable targets, the HC will then sign off the targets that they're most interested in. There's never a point where they'll sign a player without the HC's blessing, that's just not workable.

    It's how most decent, modern clubs operate now and it makes sense, reducing that workload and responsibility on the 'manager' allows for greater specialisation and care, and whilst it's not been perfect, we've generally seen the benefits of that when comparing the last 5 years to the 5 that came before them.

    But equally, we can't say that Heckingbottom didn't make any signings because of this, that's disingenuous. He will have signed off every player we brought in and gave very specific requests to the department.

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    Thatís complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign.
    Thatís a different point entirely. Leaving the HC to help seal the deal is a key part of the process at Hibs.

  18. #17
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Gogs, that's not quite right regarding The Hibernian Way. There was nothing in that which prescribed how recruitment would or should be done.
    In fact, if I remember from the presentation/pack there was nothing to say there should be a director of football etc either.


    The Hibernian Way was about making sure there was a clear culture at the club, with clear targets (Success on the Pitch, Development of our club, Development of our players).
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  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    The point of the recruitment department isn't to completely usurp the head coach. They provide names, data and evaluations on multiple players who fall within categories of what the HC wants.

    The HC will give the department a list of attributes/positions, as well as some personal recommendations I'm sure. The department then works with their scouting data and breaks down the most suitable targets, the HC will then sign off the targets that they're most interested in. There's never a point where they'll sign a player without the HC's blessing, that's just not workable.

    It's how most decent, modern clubs operate now and it makes sense, reducing that workload and responsibility allows for greater specialisation and care, and whilst it's not been perfect, we've generally seen the benefits of that when comparing the last 5 years to the 5 that came before them.
    Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

    There was no suggestion that the HC wasnít part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, itís more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    Gogs, that's not quite right regarding The Hibernian Way. There was nothing in that which prescribed how recruitment would or should be done.

    In fact, if I remember from the presentation/pack there was nothing to say there should be a director of football etc either.

    The Hibernian Way was about making sure there was a clear culture at the club, with clear targets (Success on the Pitch, Development of our club, Development of our players).
    Maybe not the final pack Matty but the CEO DOF combination was repeatedly discussed by Vision group reps with Brian Houston. The first thing Leeann did was bring in George Craig.

    Our aim was to address the problem of faceless journeymen recruited by a manager replaced every season as happened with Mixu, Yogi, Fenton, Calderwood and Butcher.

    But you were deeply involved in the culture change piece with the Trust and HSA reps so happy to stand corrected sir.
    Last edited by RIP; 24-01-2020 at 12:53 AM.

  21. #20
    Administrator Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

    There was no suggestion that the HC wasnít part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, itís more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.
    We definitely agree on the crux of the issue, I could see that from the bulk of your OP. I just don't agree that 'Hecky didn't sign a single player,' that's it really. I think there are a few examples of the HC pushing to sign one of 'their' players, even with the new system.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    We definitely agree on the crux of the issue, I could see that from the bulk of your OP. I just don't agree that 'Hecky didn't sign a single player,' that's it really. I think there are a few examples of the HC pushing to sign one of 'their' players, even with the new system.
    The thread title was a deliberate exaggeration to counter the other thread. Guilty as charged!
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  23. #22
    Dont believe it. No way we signed all those players in the summer, breaking the wage structure without PH wanting them.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    So the 64000 dollar question why has Efe no signed?

    Even on a short term contract in the last 13 months that he has been available

    Why has Bogdan been hanging around Easter Road and kicking his heels since August busting a gut to sign?

    Did he sign after Hecky left canít remember?

    Why did Jase say ď Hecky disnae want me ď when asked by a fan at Easter Road when up for an early season derby ( allegedly)

    Why did Dylan no sign when he was wanting to come back ( once again allegedly)

    So PH never signed Maxwell, Jackson, Vela, James,Newall, Doidge, Hallberg, Middleton and Naismith?

    I wonder what Heckys thoughts were on Scott Allan as he definitely had no choice and for that matter Stevie Mallan who he very rarely used at Barnsley

    Must have been a poisoned chalice for him having all those players he did not want


  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    The Head coach also has an input into who he doesnít want, who underperforms on the pitch or in training. But he may also be overruled by Mathie who believes in the player more than the Head Coach.

    Thatís why Hibs abandoned the manager role and reduced the role to one of Head Coach. As a club we scout and recruit for the long term which more often than not lasts longer than the tenure of the HC.
    Last edited by RIP; 24-01-2020 at 07:41 AM.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

    There was no suggestion that the HC wasnít part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, itís more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.

    Ok you are making more sense now.



    Interesting that some of the English media expressed faux outrage when Liverpool implemented their current structure, which included a Ďtransfer committeeí to decide on signings. Did the manager no longer have complete control over the squad?!

    Funnily enough, they donít seem so worried about now.

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    For the most part, neither did Lennon or Stubbs. Apart from their former players that is.

    In 2014 after a revolving door of managers and faceless journeymen, the Hibs board accepted a proposal for a fundamental restructuring of the club. It was based upon a model designed by the Lets Work Together Vision group and known as The Hibernian Wayí.

    The Chairmanís executive responsibilities would end and a CEO appointed. LD had been targeted eight months earlier. A Director of Football would run the football operation and the CEO the business. The DOF would recruit a Head Coach and also scout and sign players that fitted the club profile and who would play the Hibs brand of attacking football.

    Under that model there was still to be scope for Head Coach suggestions.For example Lennon wanted Vela. But ultimately the style of play and all the recruitment has been the responsibility of Graeme Mathie. The Head Coach is hired and fired by Mathie, not Dempster.

    His summer recruits were sourced for a long term future at the club and in recent months we are starting to see what he and his team saw when they were scouted. So apart from Lennonís Vela, they may yet all make the grade.

    Credit where creditís due to Mathie and his team. However jthe decision that Vela was a better DM than Bartley was a stinker of a call. That will be the last time he trusts the judgement of a Head Coach when it comes to a signing.
    Are you pretending youíre a newspaper reporter?

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not In The Know View Post
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    Are you pretending youíre a newspaper reporter?
    Newspaper reporters werenít invited to meetings with directors and club management during the period 2012-2020. Fans were.

    I accept that it was personal choice if they chose to attend to find out how the club was run behind the scenes.

    The opportunity still exists today as do tours of East Mains. Questions put to management are answered unless they reveal anything that could show our hand on signing policy.
    Last edited by RIP; 24-01-2020 at 07:51 AM.

  29. #28
    Testimonial Due CB_NO3's Avatar
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    The behind the scenes video about Hibs recruitment that the Daily Record produced was clear that the final decision on any signing is down to the Head Coach. That came straight from George Craig's mouth.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member RIP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB_NO3 View Post
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    The behind the scenes video about Hibs recruitment that the Daily Record produced was clear that the final decision on any signing is down to the Head Coach. That came straight from George Craig's mouth.
    If the Head Coach is adamant that he doesnít want a player and can give solid justification eg after seeing him in training, he wonít be signed. Thatís a completely different matter to scouting and signing.

    The suggestion that the summer signings were all Heckingbottom finds is frankly laughable

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RIP View Post
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    Played for Lennon at Bolton. Was on Mathieís radar already
    Correct

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