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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    The farce, therefore, is that players are blatantly breaking the rules and risking their careers.

    Relaxing or removing the rule certainly won't improve the integrity of football.

    I'm finding it difficult to get a hold of Scottish football's rules on this, but the FA document is an interesting, and easy, read.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...ance/policies/
    But are they risking their careers? Usually a small fine and a couple of games ban, and that's for betting on your own team. I personally think one of the reasons it is not taken seriously is that a lot of people think it is too harsh a rule and struggle to see how a lower league Scottish player could have any impact on (e.g.) Brazil winning the world cup. And the punishments subsequently handed out seem to agree with that conclusion. Maybe they should be a lot harsher, but then the argument is that the person is suffering enough already, which I would certainly agree with in Brian Rice's case. I remember being absolutely stunned when Ian Black was given a 2 or 3 game ban for betting against his own team with some additional games suspended.


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  3. #92
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugy07 View Post
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    But are they risking their careers? Usually a small fine and a couple of games ban, and that's for betting on your own team. I personally think one of the reasons it is not taken seriously is that a lot of people think it is too harsh a rule and struggle to see how a lower league Scottish player could have any impact on (e.g.) Brazil winning the world cup. And the punishments subsequently handed out seem to agree with that conclusion. Maybe they should be a lot harsher, but then the argument is that the person is suffering enough already, which I would certainly agree with in Brian Rice's case. I remember being absolutely stunned when Ian Black was given a 2 or 3 game ban for betting against his own team with some additional games suspended.
    Not everyone who breaks the gambling rule is suffering at all. In fact, I'd say it was a very small proportion.

    My point is that the rule is there for the right reasons.

    Alex Miller, and maybe some players, were caught betting on themselves to win the Skol Cup in 1991. At the time, that seemed daft to me, but I understand now why that too, is forbidden.
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  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee View Post
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    He turned himself in, the information cane from Rice himself.
    It's a bit of a jump to believe he turned himself in October, and only chose to go public the day the notice of complaint was issued. The more you think about that, and the implications of the betting, the more unlikely I would suggest that getting punished and getting help are linked.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by gloryhunter View Post
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    If he had a few hefty wins and was sussed by the bookie as a manager then it's not a giant leap for said bookie to go crying to mamma. How do they get caught though? surely if you did this you would get a mate to put the bet on and he would get a share so he wouldn't kill the golden goose.
    It's like investigating the mafia, but I've gleaned a bit more information.

    Gambling operators have a condition attached to their licence which requires them to notify Sports Governing Bodies of suspected breaches.

    The Gambling Commission in the past have prepared reports on the gambling activities, upon request from governing bodies or on the back of reports of gambling breaches.

    Reports of breaches seem to be rare, and the bookmakers own intelligence seems to rarely report offenders.

  6. #95
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    Feel sorry for anyone who has a gambling addiction however I can’t be bother with all this chat around leagues, cups and teams shouldn’t be sponsored by betting companies, at the end of the day Scottish football can’t be knocking back the best offers that are on the table! I liked some of the things marathon bet did while sponsoring us over the years

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgh_Lad View Post
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    Feel sorry for anyone who has a gambling addiction however I can’t be bother with all this chat around leagues, cups and teams shouldn’t be sponsored by betting companies, at the end of the day Scottish football can’t be knocking back the best offers that are on the table! I liked some of the things marathon bet did while sponsoring us over the years
    Would you be happy for tobacco companies to be allowed to sponsor sports?

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Would you be happy for tobacco companies to be allowed to sponsor sports?
    They are.

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgh_Lad View Post
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    Feel sorry for anyone who has a gambling addiction however I can’t be bother with all this chat around leagues, cups and teams shouldn’t be sponsored by betting companies, at the end of the day Scottish football can’t be knocking back the best offers that are on the table! I liked some of the things marathon bet did while sponsoring us over the years
    You do realise that these companies pretend to be pally and friendly when in fact they want to take you for all of your money? There's a reason that more than any other industry they want to be seen as a friendly face than a professional organisation (all of PaddyPower's stunts and the like) - the actual industry itself is a horrible, grubby one.

    The alcohol trade by and large have stuck to the spirit of the law (no pun intended) to stop excessive advertising and for assistance for problem drinkers, the tobacco industry needed a great deal of coercion and did everything they could to circumvent their responsibilities but have now perhaps fallen into line, the bookies charm people in with their stunts and the like and then flood the streets that can least afford to lose money with bookies, FOBTs, adverts at half time on the TV and social media with laddish, familiar faces like Ray Winstone saying "Look at these odds" and offer free bets to get people into the process of gambling (like how drug dealers will often offer those who are vulnerable cheap or free drugs to begin with).

    It's a grubby, grubby industry.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    They are.
    More specifically, football.

  11. #100
    Left by mutual consent! Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    More specifically, football.
    To be honest I think it's ridiculous that companies aren't permitted to advertise products that are entirely legal.

  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    It's like investigating the mafia, but I've gleaned a bit more information.

    Gambling operators have a condition attached to their licence which requires them to notify Sports Governing Bodies of suspected breaches.

    The Gambling Commission in the past have prepared reports on the gambling activities, upon request from governing bodies or on the back of reports of gambling breaches.

    Reports of breaches seem to be rare, and the bookmakers own intelligence seems to rarely report offenders.
    It’s highly unlikely that Rice is gambling with a reputable or even licensed bookmaker. He won’t be betting online or in the bookies, it will be on credit over the phone. Remember when Brebner got into bother through gambling and people were turning up at training looking for him, that wasn’t Ladbrokes or Hills looking for him. Paul Merson was the same, it’s usually gangster type people taking these bets and they don’t take kindly to not being paid.

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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    To be honest I think it's ridiculous that companies aren't permitted to advertise products that are entirely legal.
    Good point, I was trying to say that it's strange that they can advertise gambling, but not tobacco.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    You do realise that these companies pretend to be pally and friendly when in fact they want to take you for all of your money? There's a reason that more than any other industry they want to be seen as a friendly face than a professional organisation (all of PaddyPower's stunts and the like) - the actual industry itself is a horrible, grubby one.

    The alcohol trade by and large have stuck to the spirit of the law (no pun intended) to stop excessive advertising and for assistance for problem drinkers, the tobacco industry needed a great deal of coercion and did everything they could to circumvent their responsibilities but have now perhaps fallen into line, the bookies charm people in with their stunts and the like and then flood the streets that can least afford to lose money with bookies, FOBTs, adverts at half time on the TV and social media with laddish, familiar faces like Ray Winstone saying "Look at these odds" and offer free bets to get people into the process of gambling (like how drug dealers will often offer those who are vulnerable cheap or free drugs to begin with).

    It's a grubby, grubby industry.
    At the end of the day if people are wanting to bet they would bet!

    Generation of snowflakes, what’s next ... we gonna rule out being sponsor by any major firms like macdonalds, mars due to the obesity in Scotland? Where do you draw the line?

  15. #104
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  16. #105
    @hibs.net private member Hermit Crab's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for anyone working within the game who may have a gambling addiction. You can't escape it in the game.

    The Ladbrokes premiership
    The William Hill Scottish Cup
    The Betfred Cup

    Teams sponsored by betting companies.

    Adverts on the TV before, then at HT during games.

    Gambling in football is everywhere.

    Maybe the SFA should be doing more to restrict gambling companies becoming so heavily involved in football.
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  17. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgh_Lad View Post
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    At the end of the day if people are wanting to bet they would bet!

    Generation of snowflakes, what’s next ... we gonna rule out being sponsor by any major firms like macdonalds, mars due to the obesity in Scotland? Where do you draw the line?
    I draw the line at taking the opinion of anyone who uses phrases like “snowflakes” for one.


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  18. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Crab View Post
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    I feel sorry for anyone working within the game who may have a gambling addiction. You can't escape it in the game.

    The Ladbrokes premiership
    The William Hill Scottish Cup
    The Betfred Cup

    Teams sponsored by betting companies.

    Adverts on the TV before, then at HT during games.

    Gambling in football is everywhere.

    Maybe the SFA should be doing more to restrict gambling companies becoming so heavily involved in football.
    I`m not a gambler, so I associate those companies/brands with the Scottish Cup, Premier Leage and League Cup. It doesn't even register with me that they are betting companies.
    Being a non gambler obviously I`m in no place to comment on how influential those sponsorship deals are in encouraging people to bet at their shops, though I`m sure they won`t be doing it simply as a good will gesture.

  19. #108
    @hibs.net private member Hermit Crab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carheenlea View Post
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    I`m not a gambler, so I associate those companies/brands with the Scottish Cup, Premier Leage and League Cup. It doesn't even register with me that they are betting companies.
    Being a non gambler obviously I`m in no place to comment on how influential those sponsorship deals are in encouraging people to bet at their shops, though I`m sure they won`t be doing it simply as a good will gesture.

    Someone recovering from gambling addiction or someone who has a current gambling addiction is really up against it if they are a fan of football. Adverts are everywhere!
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  20. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Crab View Post
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    Someone recovering from gambling addiction or someone who has a current gambling addiction is really up against it if they are a fan of football. Adverts are everywhere!
    The big problem with a lot of gambling advertisements is they are intentionally misleading. Watch any advert for slots and it will show bonus after bonus rolling in, big wins and jackpots. I've played through £200 on slots before and barely seen a 50p win line never mind multiple bonuses. Don't get me started on William Hills ambiguous 'no one harmed by gambling' advert at the Scottish Cup Final.

    Alcohol companies are very restricted in their advertising. As an example they can't present the idea that having a drink improves a social event or improves a person's mood. They also can't suggest it makes someone more attractive to prospective partners. Yet gambling companies present this totally unrealistic idea about how easy it is to win and that's fine.
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  21. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I think that states what seems already evidently true. How to tackle it is the issue. As long as profit is more important than folks wellbeing it's not going to change. Tackling what causes the addiction is what's needed but there is no magical solution.
    Last edited by mjhibby; 24-01-2020 at 08:23 AM.

  22. #111
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    Just in case you forgot what lowlife we have as 'journalists' https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail/stat...501428737?s=19

  23. #112
    @hibs.net private member Hermit Crab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by givescotlandfreedom View Post
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    Just in case you forgot what lowlife we have as 'journalists' https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail/stat...501428737?s=19


    Absolutely horrendous and the paper is being rightly slaughtered.
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  24. #113
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    Rice on Gambling charges

    Quote Originally Posted by givescotlandfreedom View Post
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    Just in case you forgot what lowlife we have as 'journalists' https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail/stat...501428737?s=19
    Dear oh dear...what away to isolate someone battling against addiction...disgraceful journalism

  25. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    You do realise that these companies pretend to be pally and friendly when in fact they want to take you for all of your money? There's a reason that more than any other industry they want to be seen as a friendly face than a professional organisation (all of PaddyPower's stunts and the like) - the actual industry itself is a horrible, grubby one.

    The alcohol trade by and large have stuck to the spirit of the law (no pun intended) to stop excessive advertising and for assistance for problem drinkers, the tobacco industry needed a great deal of coercion and did everything they could to circumvent their responsibilities but have now perhaps fallen into line, the bookies charm people in with their stunts and the like and then flood the streets that can least afford to lose money with bookies, FOBTs, adverts at half time on the TV and social media with laddish, familiar faces like Ray Winstone saying "Look at these odds" and offer free bets to get people into the process of gambling (like how drug dealers will often offer those who are vulnerable cheap or free drugs to begin with).

    It's a grubby, grubby industry.

    They are all grubby, grubby industries as you call it, the 3 together have killed more people than most of all the wars put together, crazy world eh when we put profit before people.

  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member BroxburnHibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Crab View Post
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    Absolutely horrendous and the paper is being rightly slaughtered.
    I wonder if Rice knew that was coming. Hence his confession.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, vodka in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  27. #116
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    10 match ban, 5 of them suspended.

  28. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeesmad View Post
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    10 match ban, 5 of them suspended.
    Punishment should be consistent across the board. A more severe punishment than betting against your own team, and also admitting you have an issue rather than getting caught is staggering. Piss poor.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    Punishment should be consistent across the board. A more severe punishment than betting against your own team, and also admitting you have an issue rather than getting caught is staggering. Piss poor.
    The SFA gave Joey Barton a one match ban (in comparison the FA gave him 18 months!) but Ian Black got the same as Rice, but with seven suspended.
    As with all things SFA there never seems to be any consistency, although they would argue that they look at each case individually.

  30. #119
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    Good news for Rice and Hamilton. And because of the lenient punishment it might just get a few more people in football to open up and seek help.

  31. #120
    @hibs.net private member Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Absolute joke. All that does is dissuade others in football with a gambling problem from coming forward, help and support should have been the main emphasis behind the decision.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

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