Since 1875 - Safe Standing Survey

[ABZHFC]

Personally, the only way I'd support the Famous Five section 20 becoming safe standing is if there was an explicit agreement that the rest of the lower tier could be eventually turned into safe standing too, and it was no longer the family stand.

People citing the Merkland Road end at Aberdeen are absolutely correct, it was fantastic on the weekend, and a sign of what can be done with the correct organisation. But it's important to note that on a usual match day, that is a family stand. They didn't compromise by saying "ok, half of it will be standing and singing for 90 minutes, the other half will be families as usual", they politely asked all usual ST holders in that stand to move elsewhere for one game only.

This is why we need to think big as a club, there's no good trying to start a section in just one corner and have the other 4 blocks half-filled with families. If it's to happen in the Famous Five lower, there has to be a radical change to how our ground is laid out (something I fully support, by the way). If not, then the south end of the East Stand will have to do, and I believe there's a lot of potential for that. I disagree with the idea that the singing in the East takes care of itself, it has been poor for most games over the past few seasons, in my opinion.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

The entire point is that it should have an impact on existing season ticket holders, because they might now sit on their hands in a ground that has a bit of atmosphere, which motivates the team, which might improve results, which might make said season ticket holders happier.

[lyonhibs]

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The entire point is that it should have an impact on existing season ticket holders, because they might now sit on their hands in a ground that has a bit of atmosphere, which motivates the team, which might improve results, which might make said season ticket holders happier.

I meant actual relocation impact should be minimised. As in "time for you to shove off elsewhere if you don't want to be part of the safe standing revolution that we've decided to implement in your section. Cheers for having that same season ticket for the past 15 years but time for you to naff off to some other part of the stadium"

[BILLYHIBS]

Singing Section FFL pour moi!

Will look barry on TV and add much needed atmosphere to the overall match day experience a throw back to the old Cow Shed days when the HIBS fans just sucked the ball into the net at the downhill end

You know it makes sense

[Keith_M]

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I must be missing something - you think clubs like Hibs gain or lose new fans based on what the crowd "looks like" on the meagre 5 minute weekly highlights clip we get?

I don't think they really believe that, it's more of a stock answer to those that come up with an alternative viewpoint.

I was at Tannadice yesterday and saw some people struggling to last the 90 minutes, because everybody in front of them was standing. A lot of these people were older and/or infirm.

Maybe the people in front of them that insisted on standing for 90 minutes think those people, that have supported the club for generations, should just 'stick to the bowls'

[Keith_M]

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Feels like the FF Lower is at a shallower angle than the East stand, so probably safer and easier to appease Health & Safety.

It is, and it's safer for young kids.

The only equivalent they could be moved to is the West Lower.

If anybody thinks that should happen, then I'd suggest having a vote of all the people that currently have Season Tickets in both the FF Lower and the parts of the West Lower that would have to be moved to accommodate a Singing Section in the whole of the FF Lower.

[Anthony Soprano]

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East creates its own atmosphere and most folk stand in certain sections anyway.

FF is half full most weeks and looks crap on TV. Would so much better with colour / noise and fans creating more atmosphere.

Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.

[Keith_M]

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Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.

Section 44/45 is one of the options and that's the one I voted for.

I hope they get it up and running, as I'd love to see the two groups that sing the most finally in one part of the ground.

[Anthony Soprano]

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Section 44/45 is one of the options and that's the one I voted for.

I hope they get it up and running, as I'd love to see the two groups that sing the most finally in one part of the ground.

Likewise

[GreenCastle]

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Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.

It wouldn’t make sense at all for the East.

As I’ve said above - fans already stand there and create an atmosphere.

Why double up when you can create something fresh which helps the team and match day experience.

Even a bunch of guys in hospitality created a good atmosphere a while back in west upper.

Centrally behind the goal is where most of the best away sections around the world are based.

Not tucked away and not mixed with a family section which is half empty.

Families are the future supporters but plenty of seats in south lower / west lower if people wanted to move or even make FF unreserved and reduce prices to entice fans back.

[oldbutdim]

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Thanks for this. Stick to bowls

Ah!

Not allowed an opinion I see, or is there some other reason for your rude and rather dimwitted response?

[Since90+2]

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Personally, the only way I'd support the Famous Five section 20 becoming safe standing is if there was an explicit agreement that the rest of the lower tier could be eventually turned into safe standing too, and it was no longer the family stand.

People citing the Merkland Road end at Aberdeen are absolutely correct, it was fantastic on the weekend, and a sign of what can be done with the correct organisation. But it's important to note that on a usual match day, that is a family stand. They didn't compromise by saying "ok, half of it will be standing and singing for 90 minutes, the other half will be families as usual", they politely asked all usual ST holders in that stand to move elsewhere for one game only.

This is why we need to think big as a club, there's no good trying to start a section in just one corner and have the other 4 blocks half-filled with families. If it's to happen in the Famous Five lower, there has to be a radical change to how our ground is laid out (something I fully support, by the way). If not, then the south end of the East Stand will have to do, and I believe there's a lot of potential for that. I disagree with the idea that the singing in the East takes care of itself, it has been poor for most games over the past few seasons, in my opinion.

Good post. Agree with most of this .

[Anthony Soprano]

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It wouldn’t make sense at all for the East.

As I’ve said above - fans already stand there and create an atmosphere.

Why double up when you can create something fresh which helps the team and match day experience.

Even a bunch of guys in hospitality created a good atmosphere a while back in west upper.

Centrally behind the goal is where most of the best away sections around the world are based.

Not tucked away and not mixed with a family section which is half empty.

Families are the future supporters but plenty of seats in south lower / west lower if people wanted to move or even make FF unreserved and reduce prices to entice fans back.

The atmosphere in the East is nowhere near as good as it used to be, the current singing section is very quiet tucked away in the FF.

As I said previously, you would get a lot more folk joining in the east than in the FF where we struggle for atmosphere

A lot closer to the away fans

Makes perfect sense to me

[jgl07]

All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

[GreenCastle]

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All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

Family section to South ?

Could easily fit in for Cat B games and then first option of seats for Cat A games.

Quite simple solution.

Put away fans in south upper corner or split the stand.

[Onceinawhile]

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Family section to South ?

Could easily fit in for Cat B games and then first option of seats for Cat A games.

Quite simple solution.

Put away fans in south upper corner or split the stand.

It's not really though.

Say there's a family group of 5 or 6 who have STs in the FFL. They get shunted to the South lower for Category B games.

Where do you find them 5 or 6 seats together for the category A game?

FWIW, I would trial moving the Singing section down to the FFL section closest to the east and redistributing the season ticket holders from that section into the remaining FFL seats if possible. Then if the trial goes well and there is demand for it, give them the next section along as well.

There'll be plenty young kids in there who would be happy to join in with the signing section.

[SquashedFrogg]

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Two ways I think:
1. Giving fans a broader choice means everyone is better catered for. Some fans want seats for them and their kids and a firmer stance taken against abusive language... that is their right and could be accommodated in the West. Some want to stand and shout and, perhaps, a more lenient attitude adopted by stewards... and we can cater for that too.
2. A standing section would create a noisier more vibrant ER, improving the atmosphere for all. You don’t have to join in if you don’t want to.

I get this. It was more around why the FFL specically in response to the post.

I'll continue to stand up in the East anyway so not overly fussed where it ends up. Was just curious why the FFL would make my experience in the East better.

All cool.

[SquashedFrogg]

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Must keep up with the Jones' you know

If we defended better and created less chances at that end, maybe the cameras wouldn't show that stand as much?

[we are hibs]

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All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

Both killie and celtic have implemented safe standing already.

[ABZHFC]

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Two ways I think:
1. Giving fans a broader choice means everyone is better catered for. Some fans want seats for them and their kids and a firmer stance taken against abusive language... that is their right and could be accommodated in the West. Some want to stand and shout and, perhaps, a more lenient attitude adopted by stewards... and we can cater for that too.
2. A standing section would create a noisier more vibrant ER, improving the atmosphere for all. You don’t have to join in if you don’t want to.

Great post. This is the crux of it, for me.

I totally agree that there should be a family section at Easter Road, where parents who want to bring young kids along (and not hear abuse, swearing etc) can sit without bother. But that should never come at the expense of what some other fans want, which is the chance to stand and sing for 90 minutes, make an atmosphere, have a drink before and after, and essentially let loose after a working week.

I don't see any reason why the two can't both exist happily in the same ground, when you see clubs in Europe, it is traditional that they have one end behind a goal for away fans, the other for their ultras and then two on the side for those who want to sit with a good view, and choose not to sing as much.

It shouldn't be rocket science, which is why the tiny hills that some people in this country seem to be willing to die on in order to stop good atmospheres in our football stadiums coming back baffles me all the more.

[lyonhibs]

By the way, has it been clarified whether this poll/what the club are seemingly entertaining as a prospect is a) the current group in the FF Upper simply moving section or b) actual safe standing rail seats like the Green Brigade have at CP being installed somewhere ?

[McKenzie]

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By the way, has it been clarified whether this poll/what the club are seemingly entertaining as a prospect is a) the current group in the FF Upper simply moving section or b) actual safe standing rail seats like the Green Brigade have at CP being installed somewhere ?

I’d have guessed a bit of both. The current group would benefit hugely from safe standing with regards to more interest in the standing/singing element. Sure punters would also pay a small premium for the privilege also

[jacomo]

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I get this. It was more around why the FFL specically in response to the post.

I'll continue to stand up in the East anyway so not overly fussed where it ends up. Was just curious why the FFL would make my experience in the East better.

All cool.

Ah, sorry.

The FFL looks great when full of noise and colour imo. Some of the displays in the FFU look good but the noise doesn’t travel so much from there.

I prefer the East too but I think a standing section behind the goals would improve the atmosphere in the whole ground.

[wookie70]

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Incredibly short sighted by folk saying it doesn’t matter what it looks like on TV imo. We have a huge number of armchair fans who we could do with enticing along, particularly young fans who are constantly being lured away by the excitement of English games on TV.

Will they not be standing in their lounge watching the telly.

[wookie70]

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Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.

I'm sure Scotland has more fans attending games per capita than any other reasonably sized country. That is despite high ticket prices and many stadiums that are crumbling or poor in terms of facilities etc. We also suffer from poor TV deals etc and a governing body who only concern themselves with two teams.

Scottish football may be struggling in many senses but in terms of attendances it is doing amazingly well and for quite a few clubs it is striving. That doesn't even take into account a good number of fans at junior and senior games.

When I stood at ER around the age most of the singing section are I'd often be in crowds of 4 or 5 thousand. I'd argue the teams back then and the standard of football was possibly better than it is now and Scottish football was certainly much better in terms of world football. That is around a third of what our average league attendance is now.

A fan that "supports" from another country is unlikely to have rocked up at ER imo. They are interested more in the glamour than supporting a team. More like a boy band fan imo than a football fan

[Scouse Hibee]

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Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.

Watching highlights of half empty / fully empty stands isn’t a product fans want to support or sponsors want to get behind. The improvement of fans groups in last few years has improved the atmosphere at Scottish games - compare to the half and half scarves in England for example.

Judging by the ST holders in FF lower - many pick and choose games or just buy a ticket and not turn up. If FF lower was full every game this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s often half empty so surely a move to South lower would make sense ?

Hibs fans on 4 sides of the stadium - surely that’s what we are also striving for ?

When I watch football on the TV I watch the game on the pitch, I have no interest in the crowds in the stands, on the terraces or what ever else happens to be going on including displays.
Also if we must label it can we just call it Standing. I have never heard seating called Safe Seating!

[SquashedFrogg]

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Great post. This is the crux of it, for me.

I totally agree that there should be a family section at Easter Road, where parents who want to bring young kids along (and not hear abuse, swearing etc) can sit without bother. But that should never come at the expense of what some other fans want, which is the chance to stand and sing for 90 minutes, make an atmosphere, have a drink before and after, and essentially let loose after a working week.

I don't see any reason why the two can't both exist happily in the same ground, when you see clubs in Europe, it is traditional that they have one end behind a goal for away fans, the other for their ultras and then two on the side for those who want to sit with a good view, and choose not to sing as much.

It shouldn't be rocket science, which is why the tiny hills that some people in this country seem to be willing to die on in order to stop good atmospheres in our football stadiums coming back baffles me all the more.

So the wants of parents taking younger supporters shouldn't come at the expense of other fans because they want to have a drink and 'let loose'?

Bizarre.

Didn't realise there was a supporter hierarchy.

[Peanut Shaz]

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I meant actual relocation impact should be minimised. As in "time for you to shove off elsewhere if you don't want to be part of the safe standing revolution that we've decided to implement in your section. Cheers for having that same season ticket for the past 15 years but time for you to naff off to some other part of the stadium"

As happened to me and my family when they moved the singing section to the FF Upper!

[SquashedFrogg]

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As happened to me and my family when they moved the singing section to the FF Upper!

They've shifted a few places now. What happens in a couple of seasons from now when they fancy another move?

[hibsboy69]

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They've shifted a few places now. What happens in a couple of seasons from now when they fancy another move?

They've only shifted once I think (from The East S43 to the FF Upper.......I recall this being at the club's request)

When they were in The East they created an amazing atmosphere (along with the rest of the East and then the whole ground joined in)......an atmosphere which was the envy of away fans attending Easter Road.

These young lads with energy, imagination and pride should be encouraged. I believe the majority of fans (who attend the games) would support them moving back to The East


We Are All Since 1875