A case for the defence

[The 90+2]

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Why do you think they hardly threatened?

Because they are quite ***** and we controlled the game? Unfortunately we went missing and lost concentration a couple of times.

[J-C]

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It’s not just today’s game we’re talking about though, do keep up.

Do you ever have a good thing to say, yes you've started thread praising Boyle but TBH it would be impossible to slag him off right now but the constant negativity is getting very tiring.

[greenlex]

It probably does need freshened up but midfield is still the bigger problem.

[Pretty Boy]

You can't cheat time. It catches up with all of us eventually.

[B.H.F.C]

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It probably does need freshened up but midfield is still the bigger problem.

Midfield is easier to fix IMO. One signing massively improves us.

For me, we pretty much need a whole defence though.

[Weegreenman]

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Do you ever have a good thing to say, yes you've started thread praising Boyle but TBH it would be impossible to slag him off right now but the constant negativity is getting very tiring.

Ha ha, I think you need to calm doon pal. You start off by contradicting yourself by asking if I ever have a good word to say and then go on to admit that I started the Martin Boyle thread 😂😂😂 Ok I’ll throw you a bone. I’m saying we need better players for next season, that’s no negative it’s called being realistic. If you don’t agree, let’s hear why but don’t give me this negativity *****. Let’s be having your argument. Or maybe you don’t have one and don’t really have anything to say which if that is the case, best to just jog on.

[J-C]

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Ha ha, I think you need to calm doon pal. You start off by contradicting yourself by asking if I ever have a good word to say and then go on to admit that I started the Martin Boyle thread 😂😂😂 Ok I’ll throw you a bone. I’m saying we need better players for next season, that’s no negative it’s called being realistic. If you don’t agree, let’s hear why but don’t give me this negativity *****. Let’s be having your argument. Or maybe you don’t have one and don’t really have anything to say which if that is the case, best to just jog on.

Our biggest problem has been almost zero defensive midfielders, we have Allan, and Mallan who are attack minded, Slivka and Hallberg who try but are found out when they try to sit deep and help out the defence and Whitaker who tried his hardest today but at 35, his best years have long gone. We got rid of 2 DM's and never replaced them, plus we've struggled with pace, both in the midfield and in defence. Gray and Daz were given long contracts because they are expecting to wind things down and go into coaching, Hanlon has only turned 30 with Lewis only 32, unfortunately our last manager brought in James from the conference, Jackson a bench player from lower half Championship. We have Porteous but unfortunately recently he's showing his impetuous side, with a few mistakes and reckless challenges, he's still a year or so to go till he's at a level we really need.

Yes we need to look at new blood for our ageing defence but the midfield has at times been a shambles, with zero cover for the defenders. We again need an overhaul through the spine of the team and in other key areas but unlike other teams we seem to have no strategy with little cover or up and coming players being brought in. Once gain we need to see what a new manager can do now and in the summer.


Oh by the way I am calm and I'd appreciate the comments in your reply to less personal and cheeky, so less of the jog on pi sh.

[Weegreenman]

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Our biggest problem has been almost zero defensive midfielders, we have Allan, and Mallan who are attack minded, Slivka and Hallberg who try but are found out when they try to sit deep and help out the defence and Whitaker who tried his hardest today but at 35, his best years have long gone. We got rid of 2 DM's and never replaced them, plus we've struggled with pace, both in the midfield and in defence. Gray and Daz were given long contracts because they are expecting to wind things down and go into coaching, Hanlon has only turned 30 with Lewis only 32, unfortunately our last manager brought in James from the conference, Jackson a bench player from lower half Championship. We have Porteous but unfortunately recently he's showing his impetuous side, with a few mistakes and reckless challenges, he's still a year or so to go till he's at a level we really need.

Yes we need to look at new blood for our ageing defence but the midfield has at times been a shambles, with zero cover for the defenders. We again need an overhaul through the spine of the team and in other key areas but unlike other teams we seem to have no strategy with little cover or up and coming players being brought in. Once gain we need to see what a new manager can do now and in the summer.


Oh by the way I am calm and I'd appreciate the comments in your reply to less personal and cheeky, so less of the jog on pi sh.

Ok I’ll apologise for the jog on comment but you have to understand if you are going to attack me with comments then I should have the right to do the same no?
The best thing about your reply is actually you seem to agree with my original post ha ha.
Pretty decent reply from you if I’m being honest and I agree with everything you have written especially regards the DM. It doesn’t change the fact that we need better defenders.

[hibbysam]

First goal today came from having no defensive Midfielder, too easy to get the ball into feet which resulted in Porteous rushing out (happened 5/6 times) and from there we were all over the place. Whittaker should’ve been that person today, but it was clear he was told to be more mobile rather than just sit and contain, which he did very well until the second goal.

Second goal obviously came from a poor decision from Whitts, and to a lesser extent Gray for a poor clearance.

Hanlon is taking a beating but I thought he was fairly good, yet again, and has been for a fair number of games now. He even started the set up to the second goal today. It’s easy to lose goals and just automatically blame the back 4, without looking at the real reason we conceded.

[steviehibsleith]

The amount of goals we concede gains teams when we have more defenders behind the ball than attacking players shows me the issue isn’t midfield.
Yet again today even the commentators were stating how many goals we concede .
As individuals they are ok but they just do not defend as a unit.

[angus hibby]

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I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

No one is forcing you to come and watch them!

Gray hasn’t played for god knows how long so good of you to right him off after 45 minutes today. Hanlon & Stevenson are absolutely fine for us. Outwith Rangers/Celtic, give me the names of CH’s and LB’s who are better than those two in the league?

[J-C]

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Ok I’ll apologise for the jog on comment but you have to understand if you are going to attack me with comments then I should have the right to do the same no?
The best thing about your reply is actually you seem to agree with my original post ha ha.
Pretty decent reply from you if I’m being honest and I agree with everything you have written especially regards the DM. It doesn’t change the fact that we need better defenders.

My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

[brog]

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It’s not just today’s game we’re talking about though, do keep up.

Ryan, who I greatly admire, has made more significant errors this season than any others in our back 4.

[brog]

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My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

As good a summary as I've seen.

[lyonhibs]

I'm looking forward to seeing when we get in 3 players that are definitively better than those 3, put it that way. Like players that rival players with various hundreds of first team games just grow on trees. I suspect there might be a reason beyond sentimentality that they are still all regular starters when fit.

Time shall tell, but in 3-5 years when they've all retired, will we all be saying "these 3 new guys are a definite upgrade on Hanlon, Stevenson and Gray". I highly, highly doubt it.

[JimBHibees]

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I'm looking forward to seeing when we get in 3 players that are definitively better than those 3, put it that way. Like players that rival players with various hundreds of first team games just grow on trees. I suspect there might be a reason beyond sentimentality that they are still all regular starters when fit.

Time shall tell, but in 3-5 years when they've all retired, will we all be saying "these 3 new guys are a definite upgrade on Hanlon, Stevenson and Gray". I highly, highly doubt it.

Don't get the criticism as all when fit would still be starters in the team at present. Here is an idea get a midfield in front of them that has a degree of defensive shape and then see how it goes.

[Brightside]

We dont defend well as a team. Hopefully Stephan will make a difference with that extra energy in midfield.

[Captain Trips]

A lack of help from midfield has contributed to our goals against column but when called upon even if we had a quality midfielder the guys will still be asked to defend and tbbh I think that all of them have been found wanting on several occasions.

[HendoDelivered]

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I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

Because they were part of the Scottish Cup winning side, a lot of people will disagree with you, sadly.

[Smartie]

If we had those 4 playing every week with a decent DM in front of them we’d be 3rd quite comfortably.

The defence is not our problem. If you play in defence every week you’re going to give the odd goal away, the same as Doidge will miss chances and Jack Ross will get his line-up wrong.

[The Modfather]

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If we had those 4 playing every week with a decent DM in front of them we’d be 3rd quite comfortably.

The defence is not our problem. If you play in defence every week you’re going to give the odd goal away, the same as Doidge will miss chances and Jack Ross will get his line-up wrong.

While Stevenson, Hanlon, McGregor & Gray have served us well, collectively they have always had a tendency to concede soft goals going back to the time in the championship. With the best midfield we had in decades in front of them we still didn’t finish 3rd, so I think it’s a bit over the top to say we would be comfortably 3rd.

A proper midfield in front of them and we’ll improve defensively, but I don’t know how we lose that softness that creeps in all too often and could be the difference between a good season like 4th, and an excellent season like finishing 3rd.

[Smartie]

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While Stevenson, Hanlon, McGregor & Gray have served us well, collectively they have always had a tendency to concede soft goals going back to the time in the championship. With the best midfield we had in decades in front of them we still didn’t finish 3rd, so I think it’s a bit over the top to say we would be comfortably 3rd.

A proper midfield in front of them and we’ll improve defensively, but I don’t know how we lose that softness that creeps in all too often and could be the difference between a good season like 4th, and an excellent season like finishing 3rd.

I think the 4 of them are better players than they were during the Championship days and have had time to work on an understanding to form a stronger unit.

By saying we’d be 3rd, all I’m saying is that I think we’d be well ahead of an underperforming Aberdeen and half-decent Motherwell (but still miles behind the OF). When we finished 4th a couple of seasons ago we were overcoming an average start to the season and competing with decent Rangers and Aberdeen sides.

I honestly think that Allan/ Boyle/ Kamberi/ Doidge are a solid unit and that the defence is decent. It’s the bit in between that needs work, Omeonga will help.

[MWHIBBIES]

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My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

Spot on

[Sammy7nil]

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The amount of goals we concede gains teams when we have more defenders behind the ball than attacking players shows me the issue isn’t midfield.
Yet again today even the commentators were stating how many goals we concede .
As individuals they are ok but they just do not defend as a unit.

I have said that for about 18 months on paper everyone is fine but together on the pitch it does not work. Look at St J and Ross County games this season for the evidence.