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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Andy Bee's Avatar
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    Another grooming gang uncovered.

    Sadly they were first brought to light in 2004 in Manchester but Police shelved the case because apparently they lacked the resources, there's some serious answers needed from all the services of the time including social services. Predominantly men of Pakistani descent again, yes Asian but predominantly Pakistani not Chinese, not Indian, not Burmese, not Korean this is a cultural thing in which some Pakistani males feel they have the right to systematically abuse young white female kids and it needs to stop, that's Telford, Rochdale, Oxford, Huddersfield, Rotherham and god knows where else. I listened to the grandmother of one of their victims and it was heartbreaking, she spoke of putting her grandaughter in a warm bath frequently to try and soothe her bruising, she reported the abuse to the police numerous times to no avail, unfortunately the 15yr old after years of sexual abuse was injected with a lethal dose of heroin by one of her abusers. 97 people reported and not one has been convicted although I stand to be corrected.

    Has political correctness went that far that people and more to the point Police and Social Services are actually that scared to confront something like this that they'd rather sweep it under the carpet?


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Are you sure it's being swept under the carpet?

    I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51052076
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

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    What distressed me the most was that the original investigation was shelved due to "resourcing", suggesting GMP had bigger priorities than children being sexually exploited.

    They must have thought people were more concerned about burglary, than children in care being abused.

    The fact that the grooming ring was South Asian men has to have some significance too. We have had similar reports from places like Rochdale and Govanhill, and in many ways ethnicity is the elephant in the room.

    My concern is that all focus goes on people from that background and that others escape under that smokescreen. However, we know from Rochdale that political correctness was part of the problem.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Are you sure it's being swept under the carpet?

    I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51052076
    Can you please explain how your post & link relates to the OP? I'm trying to see the connection or how it is in anyway relevant to the thread but i can't make any connection.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Can you please explain how your post & link relates to the OP? I'm trying to see the connection or how it is in anyway relevant to the thread but i can't make any connection.
    Grooming of young girls?
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Grooming of young girls?
    There is evidence of police and social services not acting on reports of abuse, that is the definition of sweeping it under the carpet.

    There is also evidence that the police were told to investigate other ethnicities which leads to the accusations of political correctness hampering investigations.

    I just do not see how your post or link is anyway connected to the OP as it's far removed from the topic being discussed.

  8. #7
    Testimonial Due EH6 Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    What distressed me the most was that the original investigation was shelved due to "resourcing", suggesting GMP had bigger priorities than children being sexually exploited.

    They must have thought people were more concerned about burglary, than children in care being abused.

    The fact that the grooming ring was South Asian men has to have some significance too. We have had similar reports from places like Rochdale and Govanhill, and in many ways ethnicity is the elephant in the room.

    My concern is that all focus goes on people from that background and that others escape under that smokescreen. However, we know from Rochdale that political correctness was part of the problem.
    I think even just 10/15 years ago there was a lack of understanding of the grooming process these girls were subjected to, and it was seen as though the girls were willing participants in what was happening. Thatís my understanding of what happened in Rochdale anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby View Post
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    I think even just 10/15 years ago there was a lack of understanding of the grooming process these girls were subjected to, and it was seen as though the girls were willing participants in what was happening. Thatís my understanding of what happened in Rochdale anyway.
    I remember the local MP on Newsnight explaining exactly what was going on, and saying that nobody was listening. Whether they are willing participants, or not, the law was broken.

    I can't accept that people were so naive as to deny the existence of paedophile rings, especially in the town where Cyril Smith used to be in charge.

    It seems to me that a combination of contempt for the victims and their backgrounds, and a fear of going after influential people, combined to perpetuate this cycle.

    15 years ago is not a long time, and for policemen to be saying the didn't understand until Saville is bollocks. Vulnerable kids in care have always been a target of nonces and it wouldn't have taken much to get to the bottom of things.

    As a society, it is now our job to take those responsible to task.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Pakistani guys again? Blimey, what's up with these blokes?

  11. #10
    First Team Regular Renfrew_Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Pakistani guys again? Blimey, what's up with these blokes?
    Clearly a racist as well as a cultural thing going on here.
    Its always vulnerable young white girls/women. Never any from their own ethnic group or community.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Not JUST Pakistani perpetrators, and not just white victims

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-uk-britain-newcastle-serious-case-review-operation-sanctuary-shelter-muslim-asian-a8225106.html


    Of eight victims covered in the trials, six were white and two were of African heritage, while the perpetrators came from a diverse range of backgrounds including Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish, Turkish, Albanian and Eastern European.
    Where is the evidence?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...igure-is-right
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfrew_Hibby View Post
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    Clearly a racist as well as a cultural thing going on here.
    Its always vulnerable young white girls/women. Never any from their own ethnic group or community.
    Was the case in Govanhill, where Roma families were prostituting children to predominantly people of Pakistani ethnicity. The entire extent of it has not come out, but workers on the frontline in areas such as social services and mental health have been raising concern for years.

    Let's not blame all abuse on Pakistani grooming rings, but let's not deny the experience of their victims, as many still seem prepared to do.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfrew_Hibby View Post
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    Clearly a racist as well as a cultural thing going on here.
    Its always vulnerable young white girls/women. Never any from their own ethnic group or community.
    And one of the problems is that people are to afraid to call it what it is. It doesnít make you a racist to present the facts in these cases and when people donít itís left to idiots like Tommy Robinson to stoke up hatred and division.

    United we stand here....

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    First Team Breakthrough Anthony Soprano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    And one of the problems is that people are to afraid to call it what it is. It doesnít make you a racist to present the facts in these cases and when people donít itís left to idiots like Tommy Robinson to stoke up hatred and division.
    Bang on. The percentage of Pakistani men committing these crimes in relation to the total percentage of Pakistani men in the country is completely disproportionate, which tells us it's clearly a cultural problem, there is nothing racist about using statistics to come to a conclusion.

    Too many people afraid of appearing racist so in turn ignore the evidence on show and like you say, the only people willing to call it out are known far-right activists like Robinson, all that does is make the problem even worse as people don't want to be associated with him or share his views.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Soprano View Post
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    Bang on. The percentage of Pakistani men committing these crimes in relation to the total percentage of Pakistani men in the country is completely disproportionate, which tells us it's clearly a cultural problem, there is nothing racist about using statistics to come to a conclusion.

    Too many people afraid of appearing racist so in turn ignore the evidence on show and like you say, the only people willing to call it out are known far-right activists like Robinson, all that does is make the problem even worse as people don't want to be associated with him or share his views.

    Where is the evidence to support this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/11/84-per-cent-of-grooming-gangs-are-asians-we-dont-know-if-that-figure-is-right

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Where is the evidence to support this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...igure-is-right
    I know you werenít replying to me and Iíve no idea if the claim is correct. I think the fact that every time one of these stories hits the headlines it always seems to be the same circumstances. There is a problem amongst a small number of men from that community, a fact that is recognised by prominent people in their community. The problem is that we have politicians tip toeing around it saying it doesnít matter what their ethnicity is and we should be focusing on the appalling crimes theyíve committed. That would be fine if this was an isolated incident, but it isnít. As well as the appalling crimes being committed by these men thereís also a racial aspect to it and that should be called out as well.

    United we stand here....

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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I know you werenít replying to me and Iíve no idea if the claim is correct. I think the fact that every time one of these stories hits the headlines it always seems to be the same circumstances. There is a problem amongst a small number of men from that community, a fact that is recognised by prominent people in their community. The problem is that we have politicians tip toeing around it saying it doesnít matter what their ethnicity is and we should be focusing on the appalling crimes theyíve committed. That would be fine if this was an isolated incident, but it isnít. As well as the appalling crimes being committed by these men thereís also a racial aspect to it and that should be called out as well.
    Many people say Pakistan has a real problem with misogyny to start with. What is important though, is that we acknowledge the racial element in these grooming gangs, and try to work out if it is a factor in the Establishment being shy to prosecute.

    Rape, and grooming are wrong, and we need to know why the were prepared to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing.

  19. #18
    First Team Breakthrough Anthony Soprano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Where is the evidence to support this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...igure-is-right
    Not been on this thread in a while:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...dren-hgrhc358v

    http://theconversation.com/asian-gro...l-abuse-130099

    Also plenty of in-article links for your interest

    I've no idea if 84% is a correct figure, however, if you can't see there's a link between Pakistani men and grooming gangs then you need to get out from under that rock you've been living under.

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    [QUOTE=Moulin Yarns;6044026]Not JUST Pakistani perpetrators, and not just white victims

    The article in the Guardian does not dispute that a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by Pakistanis. What it points out is that there is no evidence to support cultural reasons for their behaviour.

  21. #20
    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...g-gang-secret/

    A grooming gang in Glasgow caught but was kept quiet from the public.
    Last edited by Slavers; 29-01-2020 at 01:40 PM.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...g-gang-secret/

    A grooming gang in Glasgow caught but was kept quiet from the public.
    That can't be right, not all of them were Pakistani.
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    That can't be right, not all of them were Pakistani.
    Not sure what point you are making?

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Not sure what point you are making?
    The OP clearly blamed Pakistani for Grooming gangs.
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  25. #24
    First Team Breakthrough Anthony Soprano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    The OP clearly blamed Pakistani for Grooming gangs.
    Obviously it's not going to be exclusively Pakistani's, but they do make up a very disproportionate amount of grooming gangs

  26. #25
    Is there any difference between "grooming gangs" of Pakistani ethnicity and Prince Andrew's pals, Epstein, Maxwell etc. or the Ulster rugby players or (allegedly) Kobe Bryant? They exploit young women they perceive to be of no worth to them other than as sexual objects. They should all be dealt with with the full force of the law. Misogyny is not a characteristic that can be assigned to one race more than another.

    Cover ups and transparency are obviously a different but related matter and if lessons from Rochdale weren't learned then they ****** well should be.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Soprano View Post
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    Obviously it's not going to be exclusively Pakistani's, but they do make up a very disproportionate amount of grooming gangs
    I'll tell you what is worrying me. The way every male of Pakistan origin is being tarred with the same brush. How long before there is a vigilante group set up targeting Pakistani men?

    Grooming is something that happens in every community, it could even be your neighbours. So this whole "predominantly Pakistani men" is a smoke screen IMO.
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    I'll tell you what is worrying me. The way every male of Pakistan origin is being tarred with the same brush. How long before there is a vigilante group set up targeting Pakistani men?

    Grooming is something that happens in every community, it could even be your neighbours. So this whole "predominantly Pakistani men" is a smoke screen IMO.
    I don’t think every male of Pakistani origin is being tarred with the same brush. There will always be a racist element that will, but no one is taking them seriously. The failure to realise there is a problem amongst a minority of young Pakistani males is what leads to the perpetrators getting away with it for longer than they should. People are afraid of being accused of racism, but when you have community leaders saying there’s a problem then it needs to be tackled head on.
    Last edited by lord bunberry; 29-01-2020 at 08:48 PM.

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  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member Andy Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    The OP clearly blamed Pakistani for Grooming gangs.

    No I never, what I said was "Predominantly men of Pakistani descent", which is factually correct whichever way you want to dress it up. There's a discussion to be had here but if you keep dismissing the facts then this will only detract from that. I'm actually really trying to choose my words very carefully and I shouldn't have to. I know I'm not a racist but I'm starting to feel a very slight hint in your posts of you suggesting that I and anyone else who sees the pattern here are, that is exactly why the Police and services didn't do their job properly in the first place.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bee View Post
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    No I never, what I said was "Predominantly men of Pakistani descent", which is factually correct whichever way you want to dress it up. There's a discussion to be had here but if you keep dismissing the facts then this will only detract from that. I'm actually really trying to choose my words very carefully and I shouldn't have to. I know I'm not a racist but I'm starting to feel a very slight hint in your posts of you suggesting that I and anyone else who sees the pattern here are, that is exactly why the Police and services didn't do their job properly in the first place.
    Youíre absolutely spot on with that Andy, and thatís why this thread has had so few replies, people are afraid to say what they think for being accused of being racists. Iím not a racist and I donít think you are, in fact I hate racism in any form. Thereís an issue here that needs to be addressed and pretending it doesnít exist only makes it worse.

    United we stand here....

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Youíre absolutely spot on with that Andy, and thatís why this thread has had so few replies, people are afraid to say what they think for being accused of being racists. Iím not a racist and I donít think you are, in fact I hate racism in any form. Thereís an issue here that needs to be addressed and pretending it doesnít exist only makes it worse.
    The problem is that these horrendous crimes absolutely have been used as a strategic rallying point by racists who want to use them to engender a reactionary hatred of Pakistanis and eventually to introduce a twisted agenda of racial purity. Therefore when they're brought up here there is always going to be at least an initial wariness as to why?

    The other reason for few replies is that there's, on the face of it, very little to discuss. Everybody would agree there should be no reluctance to investigate and no reluctance to hammer anyone found guilty.

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