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  1. #91
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    The attention is on the cover up. That is the real problem. If there is a racial link to the abuse bring covered up then it has to be questioned.

    Was there a fear of investigating and prosecuting certain gangs because of their race? It's something that has been repeated over and again on this thread.
    It has been repeated with no evidence to back it up. Yes, historically there have been cases dropped for reasons some claim were cover ups, lack of resources, powers that be, but any cases cited are something like 15 years ago, there is no evidence that cover ups are taking place now because of the ethnic origin of perpetrators. And to make claims that are blatantly racist that "Pakistani Men" are more involved than any other group is diverting attention away from the victims.

    There, I've said it.
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.


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  3. #92
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    It has been repeated with no evidence to back it up. Yes, historically there have been cases dropped for reasons some claim were cover ups, lack of resources, powers that be, but any cases cited are something like 15 years ago, there is no evidence that cover ups are taking place now because of the ethnic origin of perpetrators. And to make claims that are blatantly racist that "Pakistani Men" are more involved than any other group is diverting attention away from the victims.

    There, I've said it.
    No need for emotive stuff like "there I've said it," we are all adults here after all.

    We still don't know why the situations in Rochdale and other towns was allowed to continue unchecked.

    Your concern for the victims should extend to finding out why it happened, identifying those responsible, and ensuring that it can't happen again.

    You seem to think that because it's all historic that there is nothing to worry about anymore.

    If it is being covered up now, how woukd we know?

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    No need for emotive stuff like "there I've said it," we are all adults here after all.

    We still don't know why the situations in Rochdale and other towns was allowed to continue unchecked.

    Your concern for the victims should extend to finding out why it happened, identifying those responsible, and ensuring that it can't happen again.

    You seem to think that because it's all historic that there is nothing to worry about anymore.

    If it is being covered up now, how woukd we know?
    Maybe we should read this?

    https://www.gmpcc.org.uk/wp-content/...ngle-pages.pdf

  5. #94
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Yes, that would be a very good source. If it questioned the ethnicity of the offenders, as an objective, independent review it could have done everyone a service by confirming, or destroying the suspicions of those who think it is an issue.

    If people had accepted the findings of the original enquiries into Bloody Sunday, or Hillsborough we wouldn't be where we are today.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Yes, that would be a very good source. If it questioned the ethnicity of the offenders, as an objective, independent review it could have done everyone a service by confirming, or destroying the suspicions of those who think it is an issue.

    If people had accepted the findings of the original enquiries into Bloody Sunday, or Hillsborough we wouldn't be where we are today.
    A very good point. (I haven't read the report myself, btw, was just looking to see if there was anything out there.)

  7. #96
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    A very good point. (I haven't read the report myself, btw, was just looking to see if there was anything out there.)
    Problem is conspiracy theorists will always question the motivation, and impartiality of people who don't confirm their version of the truth. Really though, that report has a big part to play in creating suspicions that ethnicity is not allowed to be questioned, and that there is an inner circle of people in child protection and the police who are protecting themselves and others from scrutiny on the matter.

    When people who you never considered to be racist, start asking questions that you consider racist, you have to look at your own ability to have an open mind. Particularly when that involves admitting to yourself that you might be guilty of some of the things they are concerned about.

    I am not expecting a great holding up of hands any time soon. What is more worrying, is that those that may have "got away with it" will see that report as confirmation that they didn't really do anything wrong.

  8. #97
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    https://www.itv.com/news/granada/upd...d-say-critics/

    Former Detective Constable Margaret Oliver told ITV News that Ann Coffey is aware of the ethnicity of the offenders and the profile of victims. She says the MP has employed 'wilful blindness' by intentionally watering down the report to look at child abuse in general, rather than looking at child sexual exploitation.
    This is not about any specific ethnicity being superior or inferior to others in its proclivity for this type of activity. It is about whether failure to investigate a common ethnicity has been right or wrong. The last sentence seems to mirror what has been going on here - namely distracting from a question about specific actions by widening the debate to take in paedophilia (these guys were not paedophiles), and then using that as a context to minimise the actions of the gangs in question.

    Yes there may well have been 50,000 sexual offences against children. We are concerned about the ones that involved collusion between grooming gangs, social services and the police.

    What we are focussing on in this topic, is the sub set that involves grooming gangs who have evaded justice and whom appear to have been aided by those responsible for protecting children.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 14-02-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Some useful information there.

    Figures obtained from Greater Manchester Police, as part
    of this inquiry, reveal that many children are still being
    preyed on each day and there are currently 260 ‘live’
    investigations into child sexual exploitation. Of these,
    174 are recorded crimes and 18 of those cases involve
    multiple perpetrators.
    The majority of cases of children and young people who
    have been sexually abused involve single offenders, and
    there are big variations across police divisions.
    Police, social workers, prosecutors and juries, made up of
    ordinary people, all carry attitudes around with them. This
    could go some way to explain why in the past six years
    in Greater Manchester there have only been about 1,000
    convictions out of 13,000 reported cases of nine major
    sexual offences against under-16-year-olds.
    High-profile court cases, such as Rochdale, have elevated
    CSE into the public consciousness, but at the same time

    Thave left the impression that CSE is only about vulnerable
    white girls being exploited by groups of Asian men.
    This isn’t the case, as GMP figures show that 10.34 per
    cent of recorded crimes currently being investigated
    involve multiple offenders, with the remaining being
    single perpetrators.
    The Rochdale Sunrise CSE team
    also told me that about 15 per cent of their cases involve
    groups, with the other 85 per cent being single offenders
    including peer on peer (where young people sexually
    exploit other young people).
    In Rochdale, the nine men convicted of grooming
    girls with alcohol, drugs and gifts and then passing
    them round multiple men for sex were predominantly
    British/Pakistani.
    A small minority of British Pakistani men are
    criminal sex offenders as in other communities. So
    it is important to understand why those particular
    men became criminal sex offenders. The assertion
    that it was a racial crime in that the girls were targeted
    because they were white is undermined by the fact
    that one of the men in the Rochdale case was also
    convicted of a serious sexual offence on a British/
    Pakistani girl. We do not know whether these men
    also abused other British/Pakistani girls.

    I hope that this puts the racial elements into context.
    Last edited by Moulin Yarns; 14-02-2020 at 04:03 PM.

  10. #99
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Some useful information there.


    I hope that this puts the racial elements into context.
    The problem is that it is this report that has brought the suggestions of a cover up. It has been discredited by many of the people who worked on the case.

    In short the facts presented are disputed and even discredited. However it appear that questioning this report draws accusations of racism, and ignoring the victims in the case.

    To me there are two tiers of victims. Firstly the girls who were abused and let down by the justice system, for whatever reason - we have yet to find out.

    Secondly, justice and freedom are also victims when the people accused of the crime are also those we trust to investigate wrong doing.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 14-02-2020 at 07:26 PM.

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