Gullan - recalled from loan

[DTS]

For me Mackie Shaw Gullan and Murray could all make it, I think Gullan and Mackie now have the best chance though with shaw the least. For me shaw has almost been a victim of his own early promise, since the season we first came back up he looked good enough to be 3rd/4th choice and that reflected in the goals he scored in they seasons probably resulting in him not getting the loan spell and in turn the games he needs, he has proved he can finish and in spells handle the top flight I think a loan at a St Johnstone who were linked massively in the summer but hecky said no would do him wonders. Murray for me should’ve been loaned out last year but I think he had a bad injury and has also shown in games he has a lot of ability so again probably not a player we want to lose completely in terms of a loan. Gullan and Mackie both look better athletes than the other two and I think the game time they’re getting now will aid them, even if Gullan steps up to the championship this window id expect him to be in and around the first team next year

[Smartie]

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Could it not just be the case that the 3-4 young players who were good enough should've been sent on loan 2 years ago, instead they've hung around the squad as fillers with the odd few minutes here and there. Years ago these young lads got there experience from going on loans, just like Riordan, GOC, Hanlon etc.

The "golden generation" and others have found themselves in the team through necessity as the first team was a bit pish, but they made their mark and stayed there. There have been spaces up for grabs last season and this if the young lads had been good enough but they haven't been able to force their way in and stay there unfortunately. I mean - it's a long way for a midfielder to get into the team ahead of McGinn, McGeouch or Allan, so that's when they'd need to go on loan. Murray has seen us loan a Rangers player ahead of him. Shaw has barely had a sniff whilst watching Doidge die on his arse for our first 10 games this season whilst Kamberi played through injury. Stevenson is a favourite whipping boy but could anyone make any sort of case for Mackie starting ahead of him? We don't play a left midfielder so there's no space for him there.

Shaw I accept should have left and been playing regularly somewhere at least a year ago. If Shaw or Murray had gone away and done well on loan, we might be having a conversation about them coming back and being around the first team squad, a bit like we are with Gullan and Tommy Block. But in all honesty it is really getting hard to make any sort of case for them staying with us if they've struggled so badly to make an impact on our team of the past 18 months. They're not laddies of 16 or 17 - if they were going to make a significant impact at Hibs, they would be doing so by now.

[Andy74]

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Left because Fenlon had treated him like crap. Didn’t even meet the bench in the 2 Cup Finals, yet lesser players did!

He didn’t really deserve his place at that point though. Him and Cairney started well for Fenlon but they weren’t consistent enough to be relied upon.

He’s been okay for St Johnstone. Not much more than that. You hear about him every 6 months or so when he does something alright. Probably much less than that now.

If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

[easty]

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If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

Yep.

He’s a half decent SPL player. I wouldn’t want him back. He wouldn’t improve us.

[JimBHibees]

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Could it not just be the case that the 3-4 young players who were good enough should've been sent on loan 2 years ago, instead they've hung around the squad as fillers with the odd few minutes here and there. Years ago these young lads got there experience from going on loans, just like Riordan, GOC, Hanlon etc.

They probably would have benefited from loans however it is a balance as Shaw in particular was getting reasonable first team game time season or so ago. They have to prove they are better than who is in the team they do that by flying in training and making a huge impact when they do get the chance. Appreciate both Shaw and Murray have had very limited opportunity this season but assume they haven't impressed enough. Be interesting to see if they go in loan in this window.

[calumhibee1]

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He didn’t really deserve his place at that point though. Him and Cairney started well for Fenlon but they weren’t consistent enough to be relied upon.

He’s been okay for St Johnstone. Not much more than that. You hear about him every 6 months or so when he does something alright. Probably much less than that now.

If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

Does he even start for them often?

[JimBHibees]

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Does he even start for them often?

Occasionally not every week I think. Saints do seem to have quite a big squad.

[eastcoasthibby]

I think Gullan will have a bigger impact on games than Shaw does, he has a much more workmanlike and committed attitude on the park, he isn't as passive as Shaw, think he works defenders harder as well ....I hate seeing a forward run towards or alongside a defender as "I am shutting them down impression " like most of ours do currently ..most of the time Doidge doesn't get close enough to even do that !!

[Brightside]

Gullan is a robust natural goal scorer. He will dip in and out of form for sure but he is worth a few games to see how’s he’s developed in his time away. I watched him play lowland league and he was a standout against much bigger players. He’s much more physical than Shaw.

[Smartie]

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I think Gullan will have a bigger impact on games than Shaw does, he has a much more workmanlike and committed attitude on the park, he isn't as passive as Shaw, think he works defenders harder as well ....I hate seeing a forward run towards or alongside a defender as "I am shutting them down impression " like most of ours do currently ..most of the time Doidge doesn't get close enough to even do that !!

Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

[bingo70]

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Gullan is a robust natural goal scorer. He will dip in and out of form for sure but he is worth a few games to see how’s he’s developed in his time away. I watched him play lowland league and he was a standout against much bigger players. He’s much more physical than Shaw.

Being physical isn’t the be all and end all but it’s important to have one strong attribute.

To me Shaw isn’t strong, isn’t quick and doesn’t score from outside the box. Imo you need to have one of those attributes to make it at the level we want to be at.

I’ve not seen anywhere near enough of Gullane to have an opinion either way but if it’s true he’s got a great shot on him from distance and is powerful he’ll stand a chance imo.

[hibs#1]

The best way for young players to develop is to play games Shaw and Murray imo would be far further along if they could have played 50+ games at lower level. Unless Gullan is going to get game time here I think he'd be far better off staying at Raith for the rest of the season.

[GreenCastle]

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Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

Yup.

I personally would have kept Murray as you could never fault his work rate and I felt like Boyle he would improve over time with better players around him and coaching.

Gullan has impressed me in games I’ve watched as others pointed out he works hard and very direct with the ball.

Shaw and Murray - another poster made a good point above about finding themselves stuck in middle - 1st team squad but not getting the minutes they need to develop.

I would loan both out and allow them to build up confidence and gain minutes. Ideally a team doing well in lower leagues.

Hopefully Gullan will come back and do well as would be nice to see a young player be more involved.

[hibs#1]

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Yup.

I personally would have kept Murray as you could never fault his work rate and I felt like Boyle he would improve over time with better players around him and coaching.

Gullan has impressed me in games I’ve watched as others pointed out he works hard and very direct with the ball.

Shaw and Murray - another poster made a good point above about finding themselves stuck in middle - 1st team squad but not getting the minutes they need to develop.

I would loan both out and allow them to build up confidence and gain minutes. Ideally a team doing well in lower leagues.

Hopefully Gullan will come back and do well as would be nice to see a young player be more involved.

I liked Simon Murray as well and while maybe not the greatest player or most consistent goal scorer he had something to offer as a squad player.

[Billy Whizz]

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Being physical isn’t the be all and end all but it’s important to have one strong attribute.

To me Shaw isn’t strong, isn’t quick and doesn’t score from outside the box. Imo you need to have one of those attributes to make it at the level we want to be at.

I’ve not seen anywhere near enough of Gullane to have an opinion either way but if it’s true he’s got a great shot on him from distance and is powerful he’ll stand a chance imo.

Completely different players. Oli is very quick and plays of the shoulder, Hammer is more of a player taking the ball deep, and driving at defenders
They complemented each other really well at Development level. Just need to get Oli more game time, wherever that may be, and get him going again
Not sure exactly where Hammer’s best position is. Can play wide left or a no 10 role

[hibee-boys]

Some over thinking being done here....or maybe just excuses. There's been plenty examples of youth players coming through at Hibs in the past and nailing down a first team place. Bottom line is that (Porteous being the exception) that none of the most recent ones have had the skill of physical attributes that have warranted a decent first team run or shown that they were any better than current first team regulars. Same nonsense was spouted about Handling, Stanton, Harris etc....how many of these players go on to play at a better level than Hibs? You'll be able to file Mackie, Shaw, Murray under the same category soon enough. Harsh I know and yes an element can be placed at the door of their development, which should be a worry for Hibs, but the bottom line is that they've simply not been good enough.

[bigwheel]

Doesn’t that then pose the question about our approach to youth recruitment and development ? We are spending more than a lot of our competition, yet Lots of youngsters are breaking through across the country, if we have one or none...then what are they doing right that we aren’t ?




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[Eyrie]

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Doesn’t that then pose the question about our approach to youth recruitment and development ? We are spending more than a lot of our competition, yet Lots of youngsters are breaking through across the country, if we have one or none...then what are they doing right that we aren’t ?




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It's been a long term problem at Hibs. Before Porteous, the last player that Hibs developed who became a first team regular was Hanlon.

[Bronson]

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I’d agree with this. I really don’t get the clamour for Murray to be in the team. He’s easily dispossessed of the ball and is painfully slow (like many of our players to be fair).

I agree. The fans who watched him at youth level really believe in him but I’m yet to see any evidence he can make the step up unfortunately. I’m not even sure what kind of player he is and what he brings to the team.

I hope he proves us wrong, mind you.

[B.H.F.C]

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The best way for young players to develop is to play games Shaw and Murray imo would be far further along if they could have played 50+ games at lower level. Unless Gullan is going to get game time here I think he'd be far better off staying at Raith for the rest of the season.

Shaw made over 50 appearances for us in the last two seasons. I’d guess probably about 20 of those were starts and plenty decent sub appearances as well.

This year you can certainly say there is no point in him being at Hibs, because he’s not getting any minutes. But he’s at an age now where it’s not about loaning him to develop him, he’s not a young laddie any more who hasn’t had a chance. If he goes out it’s because he’s not adding anything to the squad.

If he’d been playing at a lower level, given the chances he has had at Hibs, I don’t think he’d be any better off.

[Billy Whizz]

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I agree. The fans who watched him at youth level really believe in him but I’m yet to see any evidence he can make the step up unfortunately. I’m not even sure what kind of player he is and what he brings to the team.

I hope he proves us wrong, mind you.

He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

[bigwheel]

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He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

Looked ahead of his time at 17, but his development has been hampered with injury. could do with a loan to get 15-20 games under his belt...come back and give it a teal go next season......


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[bigwheel]

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It's been a long term problem at Hibs. Before Porteous, the last player that Hibs developed who became a first team regular was Hanlon.

Think it is an area that need change...hopefully Mathie will refresh our approach and we start to get better results......


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[JimBHibees]

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Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

Is Simon Murray currently looking for a club as saw him in St Andrews yesterday?

[500miles]

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Is Simon Murray currently looking for a club as saw him in St Andrews yesterday?

Got a bad injury in South Africa early in the season. Still in recovery.

[The Modfather]

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He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

I reckon In 2 or 3 years we’ll still be talking about Murray’s injury. It’s undoubtedly a set back but he’s not the first youngster to have had an injury set back, only have to look at Porteous.

Murray, from my admittedly fleeting glimpses of him, looks to have potential but is a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for me. Very rarely do players get to Murray’s age with as little first team experience and still make it. I think he’ll make a career for himself but will be the same way of Harris, Stanton etc.

[calumhibee1]

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I reckon In 2 or 3 years we’ll still be talking about Murray’s injury. It’s undoubtedly a set back but he’s not the first youngster to have had an injury set back, only have to look at Porteous.

Murray, from my admittedly fleeting glimpses of him, looks to have potential but is a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for me. Very rarely do players get to Murray’s age with as little first team experience and still make it. I think he’ll make a career for himself but will be the same way of Harris, Stanton etc.

Pretty much how I see it. I like Fraser and thought he looked really promising when he broke through but like you I think he'd have broken through by now if he was going to make it. The likes of JC had 60 games and 23 goals under his belt by his age.

[hibs#1]

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Shaw made over 50 appearances for us in the last two seasons. I’d guess probably about 20 of those were starts and plenty decent sub appearances as well.

This year you can certainly say there is no point in him being at Hibs, because he’s not getting any minutes. But he’s at an age now where it’s not about loaning him to develop him, he’s not a young laddie any more who hasn’t had a chance. If he goes out it’s because he’s not adding anything to the squad.

If he’d been playing at a lower level, given the chances he has had at Hibs, I don’t think he’d be any better off.

Yes probably should have worded my point better, I was more meaning previously get 50-60 games on loan and then being better equipped to play for hibs.

I agree he isn't as young now but he still would develop far better if he was out on loan this season. Players won't improve sitting on the bench.

[KdyHby]

Jamie scored Rovers second today, tap in

[grunt]

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Jamie scored Rovers second today, tap in

BBC says Baird scored?