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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    I’m sure Trump will hold back on calling him a socialist, especially as Sanders calls himself that.



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    And? He is hardly Leon Trotsky.
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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    And? He is hardly Leon Trotsky.
    I agree but that won’t matter. It’s how he will be portrayed. He will be sold as the guy who wants to take away your medical insurance.
    As far as American politics goes, he’s as far left as it gets and I don’t think they will vote for that.


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  4. #33
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    I'm preparing myself for a dreadful repeat of BoJo.

    5 more years of Trump - my god - is what I'm resigned to. People are idiots and showbiz/infantile slogans will win.

    Would be ecstatic to be proven wrong though.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    I'm preparing myself for a dreadful repeat of BoJo.

    5 more years of Trump - my god - is what I'm resigned to. People are idiots and showbiz/infantile slogans will win.

    Would be ecstatic to be proven wrong though.
    I’d like to think the world will start to come to its senses soon, this would be a decent place to start.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    I agree but that won’t matter. It’s how he will be portrayed. He will be sold as the guy who wants to take away your medical insurance.
    As far as American politics goes, he’s as far left as it gets and I don’t think they will vote for that.


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    And give you free health care at the point of delivery instead, the evil commie
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  7. #36
    Rather ironically a lot of what Sanders was saying 7 or 8 years ago on NAFTA and immigration was similiar to what Trump said in the election campaign and what won him the states around the lakes.


    From what I know the American 401k savings plan is tied to stock market performance, if the economy keeps growing as it is and the stock market keeps making new highs it's going to be hard for the Democrats to get Trump out.


    It's fashionable to rip on Trump, however if you are a working middle class American are you going to potentially risk the stock market and economy for a Democrat that (if not a centralist) could see markets tumble?

  8. #37
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CloudSquall View Post
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    Rather ironically a lot of what Sanders was saying 7 or 8 years ago on NAFTA and immigration was similiar to what Trump said in the election campaign and what won him the states around the lakes.


    From what I know the American 401k savings plan is tied to stock market performance, if the economy keeps growing as it is and the stock market keeps making new highs it's going to be hard for the Democrats to get Trump out.


    It's fashionable to rip on Trump, however if you are a working middle class American are you going to potentially risk the stock market and economy for a Democrat that (if not a centralist) could see markets tumble?
    The American economy has grown every year for 11 years though, so it was initiated by a Democrat in Obama, after a Republican oversaw their recession.

    The issues with Trump are far more to do with the fact he's such a poor diplomat, the antithesis of a statesman and a volatile xenophobe. As a middle class American, I'd be embarrassed by that man running my country.

    Oh and Merry Christmas everyone!!

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    And give you free health care at the point of delivery instead, the evil commie
    I know but as I said earlier, that looks like a risk to someone who has health insurance with their job. American are suspicious of universal healthcare. They think it can’t be done. And tearing down the current system results in lots of people thinking they are losing out.


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  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    I'm preparing myself for a dreadful repeat of BoJo.

    5 more years of Trump - my god - is what I'm resigned to. People are idiots and showbiz/infantile slogans will win.

    Would be ecstatic to be proven wrong though.
    Prepare for ecstasy! (US presidents only get 4 year terms )

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Prepare for ecstasy! (US presidents only get 4 year terms )
    I’m not convinced this one would go quietly if he lost an election.


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  12. #41
    Coaching Staff Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    I’m not convinced this one would go quietly if he lost an election.


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    Correct.

  13. #42
    Coaching Staff Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Why would any working class American oppose universal healthcare?
    You'd be surprised.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    And give you free health care at the point of delivery instead, the evil commie
    It's only free if you don't pay anything towards it.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    I meant Hilary in 2016.
    I know. I meant that Bill and Barack tacked more to the centre that Bernie and that was how they ensured the electoral arithmetic.
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  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    It's only free if you don't pay anything towards it.
    The poor still deserve healthcare. Almost everybody pays national insurance at some point in life. When someone is unable to do that for a period, they still deserve the care.

    And non-profit system much cheaper to run. The USA spends roughly twice its GDP on health care than the UK, France, Germany, Scandinavian countries, yet has sixty million people without any coverage. The American system is incredibly bureaucratic.
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  17. #46
    Testimonial Due Renfrew_Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    You'd be surprised.
    Yeah many Americans regard universal healthcare as some sort of socialist/communist ideal and is fundamentally wrong and evil.

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfrew_Hibby View Post
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    Yeah many Americans regard universal healthcare as some sort of socialist/communist ideal and is fundamentally wrong and evil.
    This is true. They've been fed that line by big business and the conservative media for decades.
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  19. #48
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Prepare for ecstasy! (US presidents only get 4 year terms )
    Ahhh, 2024 let the good times roll.........

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Viva_Palmeiras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I’m always amazed just how old the candidates can be!

    I mean good on them but boy how do they find the energy at nearly 80 to go on a year long campaign?

    That aside it’s an interesting race for the Democrats. Contrary to some I believe Biden could beat Trump but Warren would have no chance.

    Yang is an interesting one but he’s tied himself to a few very large but rather wonky policies so not sure that was too wise.

    In the end though I’m sure .net will be 95% on the ‘anyone but Trump’ side of the argument. As a poster said earlier US politics makes Johnson look like a leftie!

    But even left / right aside I’m amazed anyone could vote for Trump this time around. Last time yeah, I get why some bought into his bombastic approach and ridiculous rhetoric. But this time? No way. Just one read of his twitter feed should be enough to tell you that.
    People get entrenched, just like people are entrenched with Bolsonaro and in time Johnson. It then becomes a pride thing. We’re ****** until these clowns see out their respective times in office the worrying thing tho is less the figureheads of Trump, Bolsonaro and Johnson more those behind them enabling this mayhem.
    "We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
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  21. #50
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Biden still topping most of the polls, Bernie closing in rather quickly though. Warren dropping like a stone, nearly sub 10% in some polls now, with Yang climbing from >5% to 7% recently too.

    I think Sanders might nip this.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    Biden still topping most of the polls, Bernie closing in rather quickly though. Warren dropping like a stone, nearly sub 10% in some polls now, with Yang climbing from >5% to 7% recently too.

    I think Sanders might nip this.
    He’s the American Corbyn and only a Democrat when it suits him.

    Trump will be delighted.

  23. #52
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    He’s the American Corbyn and only a Democrat when it suits him.

    Trump will be delighted.
    Agreed. I think he stands more of a wildcard chance than perhaps Biden, however I really think one of millennial candidates would have been a truer opposition.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vault Boy View Post
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    Agreed. I think he stands more of a wildcard chance than perhaps Biden, however I really think one of millennial candidates would have been a truer opposition.
    OAC looks an interesting prospect.

  25. #54
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Yang has qualified for the next debate now. Mon the Yang Gang.

    Agreed re OAC, Colr.

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    OAC looks an interesting prospect.
    Literally too young.
    It’s a poor field of candidates.


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  27. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    OAC looks an interesting prospect.
    AOC? As in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Interesting but already demonised by the US media. If she runs in future it will be very difficult for her to get a fair hearing.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    AOC? As in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Interesting but already demonised by the US media. If she runs in future it will be very difficult for her to get a fair hearing.
    She is also way too left to ever win nationwide in America. I think Bernie is as well and if he wins the nomination I think trump wins.
    I think Biden is a poor candidate but if he avoids looking like a ditsy old man could probably beat Trump.


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  29. #58
    Resident contrarian SHODAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Prepare for ecstasy! (US presidents only get 4 year terms )
    Who says he won't try and scrap term limits?

  30. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Who says he won't try and scrap term limits?
    I can't believe I overlooked that screamingly obvious point!

    If Putin can do it, why not Trumpy?

  31. #60
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I can't believe I overlooked that screamingly obvious point!

    If Putin can do it, why not Trumpy?
    All joking aside this is a perfect example of why the American political structure is in *some* ways very admirable. It mitigates against unconstitutional acts very strongly and holds its president to account rather thoroughly. It's exactly why Trump never could pull a Putin, for example.

    Of course there are many more inherent problems with persisting with the legal doctrine of a ~250 year old document, however ultimately I think 4 year terms, a constitution, an elected head of state and a secular democracy are all rather good things, many of which the UK would benefit from adopting.

    That was quite a tangent from myself. Next debate is 7th Feb in New Hampshire. Looking forward to Yang being back on the stage.

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