The supposedly 'incredible infrastructure at Hearts'

[Kojock]

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In the stand behind the goals at the Hearts end and it was good. Bevvy included and the waiter was good at bringing beer and wine for the promise of a decent top

Did you offer the waiter a Hibs top 😂

[CapitalGreen]

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I’m sure that turnover includes those significant £million + donations

The benefactor donation is listed separately in their accounts from their turnover.

[Cataplana]

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Turnover

Any idea what the bottom line is?

[Barney McGrew]

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Turnover or profit?

That’s the significant thing at the end of the day.

There was a thread a few weeks ago on the PM forum that raised this, and someone suggested part of their higher turnover may be because they keep certain things in house regarding catering and hospitality where we outsource it. If that’s the case, the Hearts will have a far higher cost base as well in terms of wages and product costs.

Edit - Hearts spent over £7m on staff costs on their last set of accounts, Hibs spent £5.3m

[Kato]

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Rented or not the Oriam is a great facility.

Their rent doesn't cover use of The Oriam, I don't think they've ever used it.

[Hibeesmad]

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Any idea what the bottom line is?

Not completely sure, just got told that only Celtic generate more money and that 5 million was the amount took in.

[Cataplana]

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Not completely sure, just got told that only Celtic generate more money and that 5 million was the amount took in.

Thanks.

[Keith_M]

I'm sure RG, if he's a half decent businessman, will have thoughts on how to improve revenue.

FWIW, I think the stadium has a lot of unfulfilled potential.

[macca70]

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I'm sure RG, if he's a half decent businessman, will have thoughts on how to improve revenue.

FWIW, I think the stadium has a lot of unfulfilled potential.

Spot on, the stadium seems massively under utilised.

RG has 100% come in to improve the commercial aspect of the club. You just need to see the recent vacancies on the sales side to see t has started already.

I suppose he needs to stabilise the footballing side first though, the club is very close to losing season tickets and disengaged with its fans. Since the cup win, the club has put itself in a great position to grow significantly but the last 6 months has set us back and we need to turn things back around before the fans start drifting away again.

[Tyler Durden]

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The accounts of both clubs are available online.

For the year to end June 2018:

Hearts Turnover = £12.1m, £2.9m of which was commercial income.
Hibs turnover = £9.6m, Hibs don’t specify exact figure for commercial income but if we assume gate receipts and prize money are roughly the same for both clubs then the shortfall will predominantly be from commercial activities.

Maybe you should advise LD and RG it is just a myth though considering they felt the need to visit Tynecastle recently to see what they could learn from Hearts hospitality offering.

This has been discussed in detail before. Hearts would include all revenue from the club shop and catering whilst Hibs operation is outsourced. Therefore Hearts costs would be higher than Hibs to reflect that difference.

Hearts could well earn more from their commercial and hospitality. I doubt however than it’s a huge material difference that is impacting the comparative football budget. That is the myth which is peddled on here without any real clarity.

As for this visit to Tynecastle, I saw Budges comments. I would hope this will be raised at the AGM as I would expect Dempster and Ron Gordon would take issue with Budge’s comment that “we had them here to show them how things are done...”.

[stantonhibby]

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Hearts also make a lot money during the week hosting conferences and being the venue for professional exams. They also now have a permanent supporters bar open 7 days a week while our supporters bar isn’t even guaranteed to always be open on matchdays.

I wonder how busy that is on non match days?

[Tyler Durden]

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I'm sure RG, if he's a half decent businessman, will have thoughts on how to improve revenue.

FWIW, I think the stadium has a lot of unfulfilled potential.

Dempster said as much during this weeks video. Gordon is challenging the commercial team to think about their approach. He said himself the priority is to grow our revenue and increase the footballing budget.

Look forward to seeing more detail come January

[Rumble de Thump]

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This has been discussed in detail before. Hearts would include all revenue from the club shop and catering whilst Hibs operation is outsourced. Therefore Hearts costs would be higher than Hibs to reflect that difference.

Hearts could well earn more from their commercial and hospitality. I doubt however than it’s a huge material difference that is impacting the comparative football budget. That is the myth which is peddled on here without any real clarity.

As for this visit to Tynecastle, I saw Budges comments. I would hope this will be raised at the AGM as I would expect Dempster and Ron Gordon would take issue with Budge’s comment that “we had them here to show them how things are done...”.

If anything, I think there must be a lot Dempster and Gordon can learn from the various screw ups at Hearts and the terrible failures in project management.

[Peevemor]

It should be remembered that when we rebuilt our 2 end stands 25+ years ago, STF significantly increased the construction budget to give us hospitality, corporate & banqueting/function facilities which were seen as second to none in Scotland. This continued into the new West stand a few years later.

At the time the facilities were well used with decent occupancy rates, probably due to novelty value which has since worn off. The same novelty value from which Hearts are currently benefitting.

It could well be that they're currently doing this stuff better than us, but to suggest that we've anything to learn from budgiepuss is ludicrous. We wrote the book FFS.

[Bostonhibby]

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It should be remembered that when we rebuilt our 2 end stands 25+ years ago, STF significantly increased the construction budget to give us hospitality, corporate & banqueting/function facilities which were seen as second to none in Scotland. This continued into the new West stand a few years later.

At the time the facilities were well used with decent occupancy rates, probably due to novelty value which has since worn off. The same novelty value from which Hearts are currently benefitting.

It could well be that they're currently doing this stuff better than us, but to suggest that we've anything to learn from budgiepuss is ludicrous. We wrote the book FFS.

Aye, but they've nearly finished building one overdue and over budget single tier stand with it's many issues and farces along the way.

Jeez, I've heard so often how good they are at everything they do I'm starting to believe it



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[Tyler Durden]

Another thing to consider here is that the most recent accounts for both sides are year to June 2018. Which was Hibs first season back in the top division. Despite the fact that we came close to finishing 2nd, we would have budgeted for mid table. It is no surprise that Hearts wage bill would have been bigger in that season.

Since then we have sold McGinn and we’ve outstripped them in European prize money. Our football budget for last season would be near enough the same IMO. That should become clear soon enough when the accounts are available

[blackpoolhibs]

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In the stand behind the goals at the Hearts end and it was good. Bevvy included and the waiter was good at bringing beer and wine for the promise of a decent top

I was there that day too, food was decent only spoilt by budgie turning up and turning the milk sour when we had coffee and biscuits.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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You say this on almost every thread and every time I see it, I point out that almost all the boys at broughton ps are signed with hibs.

i wish they had that deal 45+ years ago, i would now be able to tell everyone i was signed by hibs in my youth :)

[Is It On....]

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The accounts of both clubs are available online.

For the year to end June 2018:

Hearts Turnover = £12.1m, £2.9m of which was commercial income.
Hibs turnover = £9.6m, Hibs don’t specify exact figure for commercial income but if we assume gate receipts and prize money are roughly the same for both clubs then the shortfall will predominantly be from commercial activities.

Maybe you should advise LD and RG it is just a myth though considering they felt the need to visit Tynecastle recently to see what they could learn from Hearts hospitality offering.

Wasn't that the day before LeVain was relieved of his duties? Maybe Queen Anne was telling them that 2 years of poor results was too much time and advising on how you fire a rotten manager.

[vuefrom1875]

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They have a hospitality and corporate offering that significantly boosts their football budget compared to their city rivals (us).

Based on what?Obviously you've been there.Do tell more!.............waiting.

[vuefrom1875]

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Rented or not the Oriam is a great facility.

But aye it’s a bit of myth that Hearts have managed to spin by repeating it often enough that it becomes accepted. A bit like a debt is not a debt when you owe it to yourself n all that

Heriot Watt wrote of the debt!

[CapitalGreen]

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Based on what?Obviously you've been there.Do tell more!.............waiting.

Please read the rest of the thread, a number of posters have already described the differences from personal experience. Hopefully our offering will improve going forward following LD and RG’s fact-finding mission.

[Deansy]

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I've noticed that since Levein was sacked a number of pundits have made a big deal about how the 'infrastructure' at Hearts is a huge selling point for a new boss. Steven Thomson went so far as to describe it as 'incredible' on Sportscene.

What am I missing here? In what way is the 'infrastructure' so wonderful? A new main stand that has run millions of pounds over budget and still isn't finished despite the club having to had to rely on supporter donations, three other tinpot stands that needs a good overhaul, a child-sized pitch and a training facility they rent from (and share with) Heriot-Watt University.

In what way does this all set Hearts apart from other clubs when it comes to 'infrastructure'?

Think it's more likely that they've just got a decent media/PR-department !

[Sammy7nil]

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I was there that day too, food was decent only spoilt by budgie turning up and turning the milk sour when we had coffee and biscuits.

Yeah couldn't believe she was wandering around what was that about

[danhibees1875]

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That’s the significant thing at the end of the day.

There was a thread a few weeks ago on the PM forum that raised this, and someone suggested part of their higher turnover may be because they keep certain things in house regarding catering and hospitality where we outsource it. If that’s the case, the Hearts will have a far higher cost base as well in terms of wages and product costs.

Edit - Hearts spent over £7m on staff costs on their last set of accounts, Hibs spent £5.3m

As an extreme example, if I started a business selling £2 coins for £1 I'd have millions of pounds more turnover than Hibs too.

Although, on the balance of probability I do think hearts probably have a more profitable offering at the moment. How much that equates to in terms of money to spend on players I don't think anyone outwith those with sight of their trial balance will know.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I was at a 50th at their new Castle view suite a couple of months ago. Absolutely no sight of the castle but the buffet was phenomenal. If hospitality has the same standard of grub then they will be eating well on match days.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It doesnt really matter how our corporate compares to Hearts. What does matter is that Hibs try to provide the very best experience they can and from what I've seen on here it falls short of what it could and should be ... if the guy saying what was on offer for a hundred quid when he went was some chilli and a bit of rice is correct thats appalling if you ask me.

The last time ( the only time ) I was in corporate was a function in the west stand a couple of years ago and even then it looked tired and in need of a good sprucing up, especially the carpets and paintwork, I was especially surprised at the lack of Hibs artwork on the walls in the main dining area which looked nothing less than spartan. It may have changed since then, I certainly hope so. In addition to that, when I went to the bar for some drinks the girl serving called me 'pal' .... I'm no snob and it did nothing more than amuse me, but I did wonder if the folk paying £100 or whatever for an above average 'experience' would be happy for a waiter or bar staff to say 'aye, hing oan a meenut pal' as she did to me.

For me stuff like corporate, the pies and the tannoy are way down the pecking order compared to what happens on the pitch and even getting a proper standing / singing section behind the goals ..... but failure to pay attention to those things and make them as good as possible doesnt reflect well on how the club is being run.

[FilipinoHibs]

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He normally swoons over them so that's saying something

Comms often fail while he had to be in the studio.

[jgl07]

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I was at a 50th at their new Castle view suite a couple of months ago. Absolutely no sight of the castle but the buffet was phenomenal. If hospitality has the same standard of grub then they will be eating well on match days.

How did you know what the food was like if Nade got there first?

[FilipinoHibs]

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That’s the significant thing at the end of the day.

There was a thread a few weeks ago on the PM forum that raised this, and someone suggested part of their higher turnover may be because they keep certain things in house regarding catering and hospitality where we outsource it. If that’s the case, the Hearts will have a far higher cost base as well in terms of wages and product costs.

Edit - Hearts spent over £7m on staff costs on their last set of accounts, Hibs spent £5.3m

That is the wages of the players and manager etc. The catering staff could be paid a really low wage and they are able to do things more cheaply than outsourcing. Turnover is simply the sales of the company and staff costs plays no part. Profit is sales net of costs. They could generate higher sales (turnover) with higher paid staff than with outsourced staff. The quality is better and the sales are higher and they can charge a higher price. Their profit would be higher. Or they could do more cheaply in house for better quality. Turnover could be the same or higher - better tasting food at lower cost but same price. If sales stay static then profit is higher. They may be able to generate higher sales because food tastes better and have higher profits.

Hearts have higher turnover than us but the costs mainly players and managers salaries higher so their profits are lower. They tried on anonymous donations to make their accounts look better. Hibs could increase income outside season ticket sales and increase player's budget. That is a sustainable model. Hearts are partly relying on anonymous donations for their large playing budget. Not a sustainable model