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  1. #391
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    It would seem that a party candidate is missing for the 2019 general election in East Dunbartonshire.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_D...s_in_the_2010s
    This has already been answered. Deadline for the parties to get candidates paperwork in is next Friday.
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  3. #392
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

    https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-info/jews-in-numbers/

    I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 09-11-2019 at 08:58 AM.

  4. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

    https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-...ws-in-numbers/

    I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.
    I must be misunderstanding your argument here. Alleged persecution of a religious minority shouldn't be a big issue if the minority is very small?

  5. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    I must be misunderstanding your argument here. Alleged persecution of a religious minority shouldn't be a big issue if the minority is very small?
    The key word was disproportionate. There is a limited amount of time to debate.

  6. #395
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

    https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-...ws-in-numbers/

    I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.
    That's a fair point about the confusion with anti-zionism and a lot of the stuff I have seen being called out as anti-semitic really wasn't. Where Labour have a problem is with those who have crossed the line in to anti-semitism, whether by design or through ignorance. If they had dealt with the relatively small amount of members guilty of that they wouldn't be getting battered for it now.
    I'm not sure what relevance the size of the Jewish community has here? What point are you trying to make with that one?
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  7. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    That's a fair point about the confusion with anti-zionism and a lot of the stuff I have seen being called out as anti-semitic really wasn't. Where Labour have a problem is with those who have crossed the line in to anti-semitism, whether by design or through ignorance. If they had dealt with the relatively small amount of members guilty of that they wouldn't be getting battered for it now.
    I'm not sure what relevance the size of the Jewish community has here?
    I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

    The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.

  8. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

    The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.
    Persecution of religious minorities affects all electors. And people who are not on the electoral roll. Or it should.

  9. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Persecution of religious minorities affects all electors. And people who are not on the electoral roll. Or it should.
    Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

    Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

    I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.

  10. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

    Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

    I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.
    Yes. political agenda...making him seen as a figure of hate ..although tbf not sure he has done enough to discredit it.

  11. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

    Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

    I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.
    Sure the (Tory) press coverage is over the top, but it's a serious issue which hasn't been well handled by the Labour leadership, so it's inevitable that Corbyn and Labour are going to be slaughtered for it. At least there is some basis in truth for this criticism, unlike most of the nonsense being pumped out by Johnson & cronies, so it's a kind of silver bullet for them.

    "Affected".

  12. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Sure the (Tory) press coverage is over the top, but it's a serious issue which hasn't been well handled by the Labour leadership, so it's inevitable that Corbyn and Labour are going to be slaughtered for it. At least there is some basis in truth for this criticism, unlike most of the nonsense being pumped out by Johnson & cronies, so it's a kind of silver bullet for them.

    "Affected".
    I was struggling with that one, thanks. Never sure which one to use.

    Corbyn could have handled it better, it a got a bit Dave Spart, but the way it is presented on the media he's Hitler.

  13. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    With some senior figures campaigning to remain and against the deal they have just negotiated.

    Perfectly clear.
    Not too different from the position of Harold Wilson's government in the first referendum in 1975, though, so not sure why Labour should be getting vilified for it this time round (other than that the opposing party this time is full of single-issue fanatics, which it wasn't then).

  14. #403
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Manufactu...64837345353728

    Johnson had to have been at least 4 or 5 glasses into the night by this point, Shirley?

  15. #404
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

    The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.
    Whenever you hear about WW2 you will always hear about the mistreatment of Jewish people (and rightfully so). However, you almost never hear a thing about the way the Japanese treated war prisoners, which was utterly horrific. Perhaps the hushing up of it in the history books was all part and partial of their little deal with the US? You also hear very little about the way communists were treated and the huge influence they had on the overall outcome of the war.

    The full focus is on Jewish people now, as if their lives somehow matter more than anybody elses. This in my view is by design. It's being used as a beating stick against anybody who speaks out about the agenda of the Israeli state and the strong media and political influences they have over other countries.
    Last edited by Fife-Hibee; 09-11-2019 at 01:57 PM.

  16. #405
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Whenever you hear about WW2 you will always hear about the mistreatment of Jewish people (and rightfully so). However, you almost never hear a thing about the way the Japanese treated war prisoners, which was utterly horrific. Perhaps the hushing up of it in the history books was all part and partial of their little deal with the US? You also hear very little about the way communists were treated and the huge influence they had on the overall outcome of the war.

    The full focus is on Jewish people now, as if their lives somehow matter more than anybody elses. This in my view is by design. It's being used as a beating stick against anybody who speaks out about the agenda of the Israeli state and the strong media and political influences they have over other countries.
    Think if you lived Asia you would hear a lot more about Japanese atrocities.



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  17. #406
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Think if you lived Asia you would hear a lot more about Japanese atrocities.



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    Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.

  18. #407
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.
    You obviously feel the shouldnít make such a big deal about it. Fair enough. Each to their own and all that.


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  19. #408
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.
    I agree, the story has become that WW2 often seems to be about the Holocaust.

    I'd expect most school kids to know about Anne Frank, but would be surprised if many of them know about Clydebank, or Coventry .

  20. #409
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    You obviously feel the shouldnít make such a big deal about it. Fair enough. Each to their own and all that.
    That's clearly not what I said. I just don't believe one set of lives matter more than others. Perhaps you do though?

  21. #410
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    That's clearly not what I said. I just don't believe one set of lives matter more than others. Perhaps you do though?
    I donít know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?


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  22. #411
    First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us

    https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/stat...60701709291520

  23. #412
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    I donít know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?
    Is it only the deaths of religious groups that matter? What about the millions of Chinese that suffered at the hands of the Japanese? (and believe me, it was very much industrialised).

    Sometimes I think people aren't even aware of the shocking things that went on beyond Germany during that period. It shows an incredible level of ignorance.

  24. #413
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    I donít know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?


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    Although the residents of Dresden can point to how they were killed industrially too. He's got a point, why does one group get so much of the attention in documentaries etc?

    If you add up all the casualties, including Soviet citizens, you can see there are quite a few large groups who died in WW2.

  25. #414
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CloudSquall View Post
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    First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us

    https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/stat...60701709291520
    Cheers, the proposed candidate is a total carcrash IMHO
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  26. #415
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Although the residents of Dresden can point to how they were killed industrially too. He's got a point, why does one group get so much of the attention in documentaries etc?

    If you add up all the casualties, including Soviet citizens, you can see there are quite a few large groups who died in WW2.
    Iím not diminishing any of the other casualties during the war but the holocaust was an attempted genocide and was the most brutal. Itís not that those lives were worth more than others, just that the purpose of those killings was the complete extermination of the Jews.
    As horrible as Dresden was, our aim was not the complete genocide of the German people but just to bring down the regime. Iím not defending the bombing of Dresden though, just saying itís different from mass extermination of a people.


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  27. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I was struggling with that one, thanks. Never sure which one to use.

    Corbyn could have handled it better, it a got a bit Dave Spart, but the way it is presented on the media he's Hitler.
    Corbyn's been pretty quick to hang this guy out to dry despite the evidence being somewhat sketchy. You'd think he'd at least wait until a full investigation had taken place. Just shows you how desperate Labour are to stifle this issue.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50360863

  28. #417
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Iím not diminishing any of the other casualties during the war but the holocaust was an attempted genocide and was the most brutal. Itís not that those lives were worth more than others, just that the purpose of those killings was the complete extermination of the Jews.
    As horrible as Dresden was, our aim was not the complete genocide of the German people but just to bring down the regime. Iím not defending the bombing of Dresden though, just saying itís different from mass extermination of a people.


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    It is, and I suspect we are both agreed, it was one aspect of the war, and the deaths caused by that *******.

  29. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Is it only the deaths of religious groups that matter? What about the millions of Chinese that suffered at the hands of the Japanese? (and believe me, it was very much industrialised).

    Sometimes I think people aren't even aware of the shocking things that went on beyond Germany during that period. It shows an incredible level of ignorance.
    Exactly. Peterhead was bombed 28 times during WW2, but do we ever hear about a Bluemoggeners' Memorial Day? No we don't.

  30. #419
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Exactly. Peterhead was bombed 28 times during WW2, but do we ever hear about a Bluemoggeners' Memorial Day? No we don't.
    More bombs were dropped on Malta than London.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 09-11-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  31. #420
    Testimonial Due weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CloudSquall View Post
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    First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us

    https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/stat...60701709291520
    Saw that earlier on Twitter. Common sense from the Greens. They are back as my second vote again

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