Fraser Murray

[Unseen work]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.

This is sort of where I’m at.

He keeps the ball well but it’s normally one or two touches then a simple pass. He very rarely takes risk or makes a penetrating pass or run, when he comes on and we’re chasing the game or looking for a goal he needs to make more of an impact imo.

He got a fantastic assist last season against Aberdeen but we’ve not seen it nearly enough.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

[DaveF]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

What do you want Murray to do? He has good skill, can make a (forward) pass and isn't afraid to shoot - something even John McGinn was criticised for early on in his career.

If he gets half a dozen games and does nothing then fine, he would merit the criticism. But until that happens I maintain he isn't getting a fair chance.

[JimBHibees]

I think ideally he would have went on loan for this part of the season think there was mention of Dundee however got a run against United and also 30 mins at the weekend which is a fair chunk of the game so think he is getting a chance. Up to Fraser to build on that over next few games.

[The Count]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

Interesting point.Are kids over coached these days becoming robotic rather than natural.Never thought of that angle before.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Hard to judge a laddie without seeing him play a few 90 minutes in a row. He’s still young enough to make an impact , hope he gets his chance and grabs it

[04Sauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Interesting point.Are kids over coached these days becoming robotic rather than natural.Never thought of that angle before.

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

Coaches are coaching then?

[Brightside]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.

[Onceinawhile]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

Then those coaches should be removed. Coaches shouldn't joystick their players, that's one of the most central themes running through the SFA's coaching courses.

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Then those coaches should be removed. Coaches shouldn't joystick their players, that's one of the most central themes running through the SFA's coaching courses.

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

In the case of Stanton and Handling, their problem was mainly their physical development - neither of them were either going to be quite strong or quick enough to get beyond a certain level.

Both were (are) tidy technical players with a good set of skilful attributes.

We often get criticised for letting good players go for being "too wee" and then see them develop physically - I'd say that in the case of this pair, they were always too wee and were either too easily muscled off the ball or didn't quite have that extra burst of pace to take them away from players. There's only a certain improvement can be made in this area - Riordan tried and failed for years to bulk up and no matter how hard Stevie Mallan tries he'll never have a burst of pace to take him away from players. Those 2 had better other attributes to overcome their weaknesses that Stanton and Handling just didn't have.

[J-C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In the case of Stanton and Handling, their problem was mainly their physical development - neither of them were either going to be quite strong or quick enough to get beyond a certain level.

Both were (are) tidy technical players with a good set of skilful attributes.

We often get criticised for letting good players go for being "too wee" and then see them develop physically - I'd say that in the case of this pair, they were always too wee and were either too easily muscled off the ball or didn't quite have that extra burst of pace to take them away from players. There's only a certain improvement can be made in this area - Riordan tried and failed for years to bulk up and no matter how hard Stevie Mallan tries he'll never have a burst of pace to take him away from players. Those 2 had better other attributes to overcome their weaknesses that Stanton and Handling just didn't have.

That was a problem with the Jim McDonough era at Hibs, technically good players but were never physically or mentally ready to take the net step up to the 1st team.

[Robbo6-2]

Suspended for Fridays game for sending off in reserves.

What a nightmare for the laddie

[Greenbeard]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Slivka has shown a lot more than Murray. And I very much like Murray and want him to do well. Slivka is clearly a better player.

100% no future for Slivka at Hibs. Def potential future for Murray. Wave goodbye to one. Give opportunities to the other.
But I worry that Slivka will start v ICT on Friday and against lesser opposition will get the time and space he needs to put in a decent shift and have some folk raving about what a classy player he is when he is really powder puff p1sh.

[Brightside]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.

Tell them at training. You can guide them on the pitch - especially when younger - but they have to learn from mistakes they make on the pitch. Telling kids what passes to make during a game is pish poor - but as others have said you hear it every week at youth games.

[Onceinawhile]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.

It's not that you shouldn't help them. Say your defender is standing in front of their attacker - if you shout at them to get back two yards or whatever, then they rely on you making the decision for them. If you tell them something like "don't forget to check your shoulders" then you can make them aware of the threat and they can figure out what action to take for themselves. Or you can say nothing and the opposition might score, then you feedback to them after the game that it's important to be goalside and if not, you need to check your shoulders and (hopefully) the defender realises this for future games. OK, your team has taken the hit of losing an avoidable goal if you had told the defender where to go, but hopefully, the player has developed.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

Overcoached maybe is the wrong way to put it. But we do seem to bring through a lot of players who’s first thought is to get the ball under control and play a safe pass - whether that’s just coincidence or whether they have any sort of thought of driving with the ball, commuting a man etc coached out of them because we want them to pass the ball to death I’ve no idea.

Any time we have someone willing to do something a bit out of the ordinary it’s telling that they generally haven’t been at Hibs as a youth, or if they have, like JC, then it wasn’t for long. Guys like Allan, Boyle, Barker, JC, Docherty, McGinn have been the best we’ve had at being able to change a game or take it by the scruff of the neck recently. All of them having done most or all of their youth development elsewhere.

Not since Riordan and co have we really brought someone through the youth system who looks like they’d be willing to try something a bit out the ordinary.

[Brightside]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not that you shouldn't help them. Say your defender is standing in front of their attacker - if you shout at them to get back two yards or whatever, then they rely on you making the decision for them. If you tell them something like "don't forget to check your shoulders" then you can make them aware of the threat and they can figure out what action to take for themselves. Or you can say nothing and the opposition might score, then you feedback to them after the game that it's important to be goalside and if not, you need to check your shoulders and (hopefully) the defender realises this for future games. OK, your team has taken the hit of losing an avoidable goal if you had told the defender where to go, but hopefully, the player has developed.

Yep - I would always shout "Shoulders" to defenders during games. Same with telling strikers to watch the line etc. Its little words of encouragement and ensuring good habits. I still shout the same to Lewis at home games!

[scoopyboy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Suspended for Fridays game for sending off in reserves.

What a nightmare for the laddie

It is but its better than an injury.

I'm not so sure a Scottish Cup quarter final was the game to start him in anyway.

ICT will kick everything that moves.

[04Sauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.

I agree, i help with my boys team and it's something i have observed in matches against other team. Kids are probably scared to try something different on the pitch. Midweeks or for coaching, weekends are for allowing the kids to express themselves

[500miles]

Is Fraser definitely suspended for Friday? Wasn't Cummings in a similar position previously?

[foxy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is Fraser definitely suspended for Friday? Wasn't Cummings in a similar position previously?

Yes he is because it was for violent conduct and the 1st game of the 2 game suspension is Friday and the 2nd game will be the next Reserve Cup game.

Think Cummings was sent off for dissent and swearing at the referee in a development league game if my memory is correct and that suspension only applied to development games

[DaveF]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes he is because it was for violent conduct and the 1st game of the 2 game suspension is Friday and the 2nd game will be the next Reserve Cup game.

Think Cummings was sent off for dissent and swearing at the referee in a development league game if my memory is correct and that suspension only applied to development games

I can't see anything on the SFA disciplinary pages? The latest update is Keating's hearing which is scheduled for tomorrow.

[Billy Whizz]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I can't see anything on the SFA disciplinary pages? The latest update is Keating's hearing which is scheduled for tomorrow.

Usually updated on a Thursday

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Usually updated on a Thursday

Really quite unfortunate for Fraser as would have played a part from the bench IMO.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6...ruary-2020.pdf

1st team game immediate, and 1 SPFL Reserve cup match

[Onceinawhile]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really quite unfortunate for Fraser as would have played a part from the bench IMO.

Unbelievably unlucky. Shame for the lad. Likely means more game time for Jamie gullan I'd imagine.

[ancient hibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Unbelievably unlucky. Shame for the lad. Likely means more game time for Jamie gullan I'd imagine.

He's not unlucky.It's been described as a dreadful tackle.