Fraser Murray

[Peevemor]

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He would have been 19/20 years old at the time, same age as Murray is now.

Fair enough.

GO'C got a handful of appearances here and there up until about Christmas, then in January he got a string of appearances/matches and everyone was behind him and desperate from him to score which he eventually did toward the end of the month and he went on to finish that season fairly well.

He didn't score that many for the next couple of seasons, but the whole team was getting stick as we were in our darkest Blobby period (and playing some of the worst football that we'd seen in a long time).

[Peevemor]

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O’Connor was average in a Williamson team that lumped it long to him because he was big.

As soon as Mowbray came in we saw a different player. I’ve always thought O’Connor was a bit under appreciated - he’d knock his pan in for 90 minutes doing all the donkey work and Riordan would produce a couple of smart finishes and be motm. In a team full of very good players O’Connor was up there with the best of them.

[JimBHibees]

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I think we need to start asking some more questions of the club in this area pretty soon.

We seem to get a lot of players who get close to the first team, never really get a chance then end up being released in their early twenties.

Younger players have to prove that they are good enough. Coaches will always try and choose the best team based on what they see in training and friendly games.

[J-C]

Coaches are under pressure to hit the ground running and we never seem to get one that lasts more than 2 seasons, so young players never get a chance to develop. New manager comes in and wants/needs experienced players asap to get his team moving up the table, youngsters are then ignored while average older players are preferred, so the merry go round continues.

[easty]

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Coaches are under pressure to hit the ground running and we never seem to get one that lasts more than 2 seasons, so young players never get a chance to develop. New manager comes in and wants/needs experienced players asap to get his team moving up the table, youngsters are then ignored while average older players are preferred, so the merry go round continues.

The coaches are there to win games. They pick the team they think will be best equipped to do that. The youngsters aren't ignored, if they're good enough to get a place in the team, then they'll be picked.

[GoalsMcGinley]

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The coaches are there to win games. They pick the team they think will be best equipped to do that. The youngsters aren't ignored, if they're good enough to get a place in the team, then they'll be picked.

Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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[bigwheel]

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Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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Like Doidge? Newell ? Boyle? McGinn ?

[Diclonius]

I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

[supermcginn]

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I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

No thanks.

[BILLYHIBS]

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I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

Let me think about that one.....

No!

[DetroitHibs]

Lads almost 21, he needs to be starting first team games already.

[calumhibee1]

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Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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Who have we not gave a chance to because of lower league guff?

[Hibs90]

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Lads almost 21, he needs to be starting first team games already.

File him under the same category as Shaw. Doesn't get enough game time to improve, but arguably doesn't do enough when he does get game time.

[GoalsMcGinley]

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Like Doidge? Newell ? Boyle? McGinn ?

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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[hibbysam]

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Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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Can you quantify those names with the players they kept out the team?

[GoalsMcGinley]

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Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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[calumhibee1]

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You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

Also, what young players have been kept out the team by James and Maxwell? You can’t pick a crap goalie and say they’re keeping a young attacking midfielder out the team?

[MWHIBBIES]

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Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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Slivka has shown a lot more than Murray. And I very much like Murray and want him to do well. Slivka is clearly a better player.

[calumhibee1]

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You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

[MikeyS]

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Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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What 'lower league' did we sign Maxwell, Middleton & Slivka from??

Like Easty said above, managers are paid to win matches by putting what they see as the best players out on the park. I dont think any of our previous managers can be accused of purposely trying to block young players just for the sake of it.

[ancient hibee]

We have changed managers so frequently that none have seen young players coming through.It’s only natural that a new manager will go for experienced players who he thinks can”do a job” rather than risking youngsters who may do him out of a job.

[wookie70]

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I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

Also, what young players have been kept out the team by James and Maxwell? You can’t pick a crap goalie and say they’re keeping a young attacking midfielder out the team?

Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

[Hibeesmad]

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Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

Not bad when you consider that £7 million Ryan Kent hasn't had an assist in the league in over a year.

[Hibernian Verse]

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Not bad when you consider that £7 million Ryan Kent hasn't had an assist in the league in over a year.

Yeah but it's Horgan that's ***** don't forget!

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[Unseen work]

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Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

Murray as in Fraser Murray? He has a goal every 2.5 matches?

I must have missed all of these competitive goals.

[PH91]

Is Murray's versatility hampering him? He comes on but never consistently in the same position, I'm not even sure what his strongest position is.

He seems like a wide midfielder to me i.e. wide of a 4 rather than a wide forward. Where did he play in the development team?

[calumhibee1]

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Murray as in Fraser Murray? He has a goal every 2.5 matches?

I must have missed all of these competitive goals.

I think it’s probably when you add up all his minutes and goals and then divide those minutes by 90 to get full games if that makes sense. So if someone makes 9x 10 minute sub appearances and score 2 then they’re scoring 2 goals a game.

The thing with Murray is that his goal every 2.5 games means he’s played about 7 and a half first team games using that sort of logic. The majority of they “games” will probably be against lower league teams where as Horgans will be much more heavily weighted towards being against teams at Scottish Premiership level.

[wookie70]

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I think it’s probably when you add up all his minutes and goals and then divide those minutes by 90 to get full games if that makes sense. So if someone makes 9x 10 minute sub appearances and score 2 then they’re scoring 2 goals a game.

The thing with Murray is that his goal every 2.5 games means he’s played about 7 and a half first team games using that sort of logic. The majority of they “games” will probably be against lower league teams where as Horgans will be much more heavily weighted towards being against teams at Scottish Premiership level.

Yep, I used 90 minutes of game time and you are right that Fraser's goals are all in cup games. Horgan has 6 goals in the top league and 4 in cup games. Looking again I have made an arse of it as the stats included dev games in the challenge cup, albeit against Elgin and the like. He is a goal every 3 games for the first team so still very good. He is only likely to score and assist when he gets on the pitch and most of his appearances have been against lesser opposition.

[tamig]

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I trust you Billy.

I like his set piece deliveries and has a good first touch.

For me he has to put himself about a bit more, in some of the games he comes on in I think he is easily bullied

Agreed. His set pieces are very good and he does seem to have bulked up a bit. He needs to learn how to use that added muscle though. Far too easily nudged out of things.

[B.H.F.C]

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Agreed. His set pieces are very good and he does seem to have bulked up a bit. He needs to learn how to use that added muscle though. Far too easily nudged out of things.

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.