Where has the swagger gone?

[FifeHibs]

Under Alan Stubbs and Neil Lennon we went to Ibrox and Parkhead with a swagger, no fear and an optimistic feeling of taking a draw at the very least.

We toyed with and bullied the old firm midfields, we even had Lewis Stevenson at Centre Back and still came home with full points.

In our first season back in the top flight under Lennon we based our results against the top 4 teams. Before yesterday's draw the talk was our next 3 games were a bench mark Hamilton, Ross County and Livi. Has Heckingbottom dragged our expectation so far down that we now benchmark against these no mark clubs.

With 1 win in the league in 12 games I fear this is a relegation battle

[PaulSmith]

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Under Alan Stubbs and Neil Lennon we went to Ibrox and Parkhead with a swagger, no fear and an optimistic feeling of taking a draw at the very least.

We toyed with and bullied the old firm midfields, we even had Lewis Stevenson at Centre Back and still came home with full points.

In our first season back in the top flight under Lennon we based our results against the top 4 teams. Before yesterday's draw the talk was our next 3 games were a bench mark Hamilton, Ross County and Livi. Has Heckingbottom dragged our expectation so far down that we now benchmark against these no mark clubs.

With 1 win in the league in 12 games I fear this is a relegation battle

the manager has bored it out of everyone. Keep the ball and pass it sideways, and repeat until the opposition score a set play.

[IvanSproule]

It now plays centre midfield for Aston Villa


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[Carheenlea]

I got out my seat twice in 90 minutes yesterday - Mallans strike for the goal and Doidge’s disallowed effort. A few handclaps at some neat and tiday play, but it’s just so sterile. Only players that fans seem to have a strong rapport with and is reciprocated were behind the goals warming up for most of the game. Wouldn’t be so bad if it was a great game with lots of talking points and excitement, but it was just a dull game in a dull stadium against another dull side on a dull day in a dull town.

[Speedway]

It left with Lennon.

[My_Wife_Camille]

It left when we replaced McGinn, McGeouch and Allan with Milligan, Mallan and Hyndman.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

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It left with Lennon.

Have to agree with this although passing on the deck seemed to be coming to the end

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I don't know a Hibby that has any enthusiasm for anything Hibs these days, lethargy on and off the pitch.

[we are hibs]

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It left when we replaced McGinn, McGeouch and Allan with Milligan, Mallan and Hyndman.

Exactly. The biggest irony about Lennon's "boyband hibs" comment when he arrived is that he signed Hyndman and Mallan. The epitome of boyband footballers. The midfield has been woefully soft and easy to play against since Asteras away last sesson. Its ridiculous how easy it is for teams to get in behind our midfield and into one on ones with our defence.

[jacomo]

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It left with Lennon.

We were stuck in a rut with Lennon and results improved after he left.

So there’s more to it than that.

Looking from the outside, we’ve obviously got the recruitment wrong, so the shape of the squad is wrong, so the team is out of sorts.

Also, it’s quite possible that PH has filled the players’ heads with so much tactical instruction that they aren’t trusting their instincts anymore.

The very best coaches - Klopp and Guardiola - teach their teams *new* instincts... but maybe you need the very best players for this to work.

Whatever, confidence is low and PH has got it badly wrong.

[Iggy Pope]

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I don't know a Hibby that has any enthusiasm for anything Hibs these days, lethargy on and off the pitch.

Not a bad attendance yesterday.

[Carheenlea]

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Not a bad attendance yesterday.

We always take a good travelling support regardless of how our fortunes are at any particular time - a hardcore of 1000 - 1500. It surprises me often that when we are doing well, when you consider our home attendances and ST holders the travelling support isn’t swelled by much more.

[Iggy Pope]

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We always take a good travelling support regardless of how our fortunes are at any particular time - a hardcore of 1000 - 1500. It surprises me often that when we are doing well, when you consider our home attendances and ST holders the travelling support isn’t swelled by much more.

I know being part of that hardcore as I’m sure you are. Hardly lethargic though, that being the point I’m responding to. I’d reckon 2 or 300 yesterday would indicate lethargy as I’ve been amongst that apathetic level at times as well.
When things are going well though we take more.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Cummings, Henderson and McGinn brought the team a huge amount of swagger..we miss all 3 of these players

[Speedway]

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Exactly. The biggest irony about Lennon's "boyband hibs" comment when he arrived is that he signed Hyndman and Mallan. The epitome of boyband footballers. The midfield has been woefully soft and easy to play against since Asteras away last sesson. Its ridiculous how easy it is for teams to get in behind our midfield and into one on ones with our defence.

And when he signed Mallan he said ‘we can’t sign another McGinn, so we have to sign a Mallan and hope that he develops’

Lennon knew the score.

[WhileTheChief..]

All goes back to LD getting involved in the Lennon/Kamberi spat.

She picked the wrong side!!

[J-C]

We have no one who will just take the game by the scruff of the neck and make something happen. They seem to be inside their wee shells afraid to do the outrageous, the different, it's all very boring, we need a couple of mavericks in the team.

[J-C]

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All goes back to LD getting involved in the Lennon/Kamberi spat.

She picked the wrong side!!

Lennon went too far here and had to leave, she got involved due to agents wanting their player to leave the club and senior players unhappy with the situation, it's what a CEO does.

[Sammy7nil]

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Under Alan Stubbs and Neil Lennon we went to Ibrox and Parkhead with a swagger, no fear and an optimistic feeling of taking a draw at the very least.

We toyed with and bullied the old firm midfields, we even had Lewis Stevenson at Centre Back and still came home with full points.

In our first season back in the top flight under Lennon we based our results against the top 4 teams. Before yesterday's draw the talk was our next 3 games were a bench mark Hamilton, Ross County and Livi. Has Heckingbottom dragged our expectation so far down that we now benchmark against these no mark clubs.

With 1 win in the league in 12 games I fear this is a relegation battle

I think it went to Sunderland and Villa

[B.H.F.C]

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We have no one who will just take the game by the scruff of the neck and make something happen. They seem to be inside their wee shells afraid to do the outrageous, the different, it's all very boring, we need a couple of mavericks in the team.

The players are reflective of their manager at the moment, boring.

And the manager is what the board wanted. Somebody boring that would be nice and easy to manage.

Nobody looks happy. It must be fun going in to work every day for them at the moment..

[Sammy7nil]

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Under Alan Stubbs and Neil Lennon we went to Ibrox and Parkhead with a swagger, no fear and an optimistic feeling of taking a draw at the very least.

We toyed with and bullied the old firm midfields, we even had Lewis Stevenson at Centre Back and still came home with full points.

In our first season back in the top flight under Lennon we based our results against the top 4 teams. Before yesterday's draw the talk was our next 3 games were a bench mark Hamilton, Ross County and Livi. Has Heckingbottom dragged our expectation so far down that we now benchmark against these no mark clubs.

With 1 win in the league in 12 games I fear this is a relegation battle

I think it went to Sunderland and Villa

[Torto7]

We switched to 3-5-2 to hide Allans weakness off the ball and it worked a treat. We ditched the formation too soon and we now play the Scottish 4-5-1 that signals the death knell of any entertainment. Heckingbottom will not change the back four under any circumstances.

The Italian clubs are smarter tactically of course and they're prepared to go against the norm to make the most of their resources as they're competing for players with the English Prem etc.

Atalanta for example have a player Gomez who's an absolute magician but like Scott Allan is useless off the ball. They get around this by playing 3-4-3 with the No 10 drifting in from the left to pick up space and both wide midfielders constantly overlapping.

You can't do that in Scotland though as you'd concede goals and never win a game. After all Scottish fitba folk know best and we should continue down the road of 4-5-1, never going 'gung ho' and playing the same style of excrement that the majority of the league plays.

I'd like to see us play 3-4-3/3-5-2 depending on the opponent and moving as far away from the one size fits all blooter pish that we're subjected to most weeks. Lets go against the grain. Innovate Hibernian.

[Smartie]

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We switched to 3-5-2 to hide Allans weakness off the ball and it worked a treat. We ditched the formation too soon and we now play the Scottish 4-5-1 that signals the death knell of any entertainment. Heckingbottom will not change the back four under any circumstances.

The Italian clubs are smarter tactically of course and they're prepared to go against the norm to make the most of their resources as they're competing for players with the English Prem etc.

Atalanta for example have a player Gomez who's an absolute magician but like Scott Allan is useless off the ball. They get around this by playing 3-4-3 with the No 10 drifting in from the left to pick up space and both wide midfielders constantly overlapping.

You can't do that in Scotland though as you'd concede goals and never win a game. After all Scottish fitba folk know best and we should continue down the road of 4-5-1, never going 'gung ho' and playing the same style of excrement that the majority of the league plays.

I'd like to see us play 3-4-3/3-5-2 depending on the opponent and moving as far away from the one size fits all blooter pish that we're subjected to most weeks. Lets go against the grain. Innovate Hibernian.

Both Stubbs and Lennon had us able to play more than one way, but it is hard to argue with the fact that much of our best football has been played in a 352 formation - Hibs have never cracked the one up front thing, that's for sure.

I'm not sure we need to innovate - we just need to come up with a formation that allows us to play 2 strikers. Both of Heckingbottom's predecessors managed it, he will lose his job if he doesn't (he's incredibly lucky to still have one and looks no closer to solving this problem).

[Torto7]

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Both Stubbs and Lennon had us able to play more than one way, but it is hard to argue with the fact that much of our best football has been played in a 352 formation - Hibs have never cracked the one up front thing, that's for sure.

I'm not sure we need to innovate - we just need to come up with a formation that allows us to play 2 strikers. Both of Heckingbottom's predecessors managed it, he will lose his job if he doesn't (he's incredibly lucky to still have one and looks no closer to solving this problem).

Yeah innovate was a bit over the top. I'd like to see us be different though. From youth through to the first team. One up front is utter guff when the nearest support is 30 m away.

[KeithTheHibby]

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Lennon went too far here and had to leave, she got involved due to agents wanting their player to leave the club and senior players unhappy with the situation, it's what a CEO does.

Yet Celtic took him back on despite him being so disruptive? I’m not buying it.

[Torto7]

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Yet Celtic took him back on despite him being so disruptive? I’m not buying it.

According to the Mrs who's Celtic daft he left under similar circumstances at Celtic. Lawell couldn't stand the sight of him at the end of his first spell. I think that's part and parcel of Lennon being a manager. Eventually he'll turn against the people who are on his side. The guys volatile, which can be a hell of a trait when channeled properly but people get fed up of living with it day in and day out.

[J-C]

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We switched to 3-5-2 to hide Allans weakness off the ball and it worked a treat. We ditched the formation too soon and we now play the Scottish 4-5-1 that signals the death knell of any entertainment. Heckingbottom will not change the back four under any circumstances.

The Italian clubs are smarter tactically of course and they're prepared to go against the norm to make the most of their resources as they're competing for players with the English Prem etc.

Atalanta for example have a player Gomez who's an absolute magician but like Scott Allan is useless off the ball. They get around this by playing 3-4-3 with the No 10 drifting in from the left to pick up space and both wide midfielders constantly overlapping.

You can't do that in Scotland though as you'd concede goals and never win a game. After all Scottish fitba folk know best and we should continue down the road of 4-5-1, never going 'gung ho' and playing the same style of excrement that the majority of the league plays.

I'd like to see us play 3-4-3/3-5-2 depending on the opponent and moving as far away from the one size fits all blooter pish that we're subjected to most weeks. Lets go against the grain. Innovate Hibernian.

We went 3-5-2 because Gray got injured and it allowed us to play Boyle as a wingback, which he thrived at. Boyle didn't play much under Stubbs due to his liking of the diamond and 3-5-2, making Boyle as a winger surplus.

You can get the best from Allan using these 2 tactics but if we play 4-3-3/4-5-1 then you need 2 hard working midfielders playing alongside to do the donkey work. Both Allan and Mallan do try to get stuck in but are both naturally attacking players and tend to forget to track their men, not really their problem it's just who they are, it's hard to fit both into the team.

If we play 4-3-3 and play both Allan and Mallan, then you need 2 wide men who can also put a shift in and a more dominant worker as DM. Again we'll have the conundrum of wide players in a 3-5-2 or similar, we do not have the wingbacks good enough in the attacking sense to make it work properly, Lewis for all his hard work it too defensive minded, Gray looks too injury prone, Whittaker is past it and James is slower than a week in jail.

[SON OF PADDY]

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Lennon went too far here and had to leave, she got involved due to agents wanting their player to leave the club and senior players unhappy with the situation, it's what a CEO does.

I concur, LD had to step in and resolve the problem.

[J-C]

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Yet Celtic took him back on despite him being so disruptive? I’m not buying it.

Cheap option, Celtic minded and available just when they needed him, what happened at ER was personal and not football orientated.

[Torto7]

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We went 3-5-2 because Gray got injured and it allowed us to play Boyle as a wingback, which he thrived at. Boyle didn't play much under Stubbs due to his liking of the diamond and 3-5-2, making Boyle as a winger surplus.

You can get the best from Allan using these 2 tactics but if we play 4-3-3/4-5-1 then you need 2 hard working midfielders playing alongside to do the donkey work. Both Allan and Mallan do try to get stuck in but are both naturally attacking players and tend to forget to track their men, not really their problem it's just who they are, it's hard to fit both into the team.

If we play 4-3-3 and play both Allan and Mallan, then you need 2 wide men who can also put a shift in and a more dominant worker as DM. Again we'll have the conundrum of wide players in a 3-5-2 or similar, we do not have the wingbacks good enough in the attacking sense to make it work properly, Lewis for all his hard work it too defensive minded, Gray looks too injury prone, Whittaker is past it and James is slower than a week in jail.

Basically the squad is horribly unbalanced. The more you analyse Hibs the worse it looks. I'd target Harvie at Ayr in Jan. Lewis needs competition for his spot. By the end of Jan I'd like to see this.

Porteous Daz/Jackson Hanlon/Lewis
Murray/Boyle Hallberg NCM Harvie/Lewis
Allan
Kamberi Doidge