HSL Donations Poll

[offshorehibby]

I see the results of the recenr HSL poll for where donations should go.

Recent Poll
Following the result of the recent poll with our existing donators, funds received from them from 1st October 2019 will be distributed as follows:

- 65% will be passed to the Club for the Football Dept.
- 35% will be retained for future share purchases as and when they become available.

Supporters joining from 1st October onwards will see 100% of their donation going to the Club.

James Adie

[linlithgowhibbie]

I'm quite happy at that. Monies still going in for players and a reserve being built up for shares when available

[Clarence]

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I'm quite happy at that. Monies still going in for players and a reserve being built up for shares when available

Me too. I thought the split would have been more in favour of the playing budget but I’m actually happy to see that there is a sizeable minority keen to increase the HSL fans’ share of ownership.

[wallpaperman]

Fine with that, I voted for money to go to the playing budget, but the split seems ok.

Could i ask a question about the shares that are currently in circulation?

If an owner of a club wanted to raise money, say from a particular investor, could he issue new shares which would therefore dilute all existing shares, including HSL? Would HSL be given an equal opportunity to buy some of these shares, therefore keeping the same approximate percentage?

Just wondering that if HSL do go about trying to buy small shareholdings from others, but the whole exercise could be rendered pointless by a new share issue down the line.

[Purple & Green]

I’m not happy with chucking money at the club with no accountability - I think it’s a mistake for an owner that’s been in place for 5 months to be backed like this.

I’ll be withdrawing when I’ve paid up my full membership unless things change in the interim, which I hope they will.

[Golden Bear]

I'd consider joining if there was a method of transferring financial contribuitions directly to the Club as I don't see the need for any HS involvement.

Why pay money to one group for subsequent onward transmission to the Football Club?

[green day]

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I’m not happy with chucking money at the club with no accountability - I think it’s a mistake for an owner that’s been in place for 5 months to be backed like this.

I’ll be withdrawing when I’ve paid up my full membership unless things change in the interim, which I hope they will.

When Farmer and Petrie were in charge, some people used that as a reason not to donate to HSL

Now that they have left, you are doing exactly the same.

Its difficult to know how HSL can win when we have skewed logic like this in play...........................

[Eyrie]

I'm not happy with the email.

The orginal email about the vote was unclear about an individual's contributions would be allocated, and I had to ask several times on here before getting confirmation from Official HSL that an individual's contributions would be allocated 100% in accordance with their vote and the overall result of the vote would only be applied to those who didn't vote.

The email this morning implies that my contributions will be split 65-35 which is not what I want to happen to my money. There is nothing on my account with HSL to confirm that my money will be allocated 100% as I want, which is concerning.

[MSK]

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I'm not happy with the email.

The orginal email about the vote was unclear about an individual's contributions would be allocated, and I had to ask several times on here before getting confirmation from Official HSL that an individual's contributions would be allocated 100% in accordance with their vote and the overall result of the vote would only be applied to those who didn't vote.

The email this morning implies that my contributions will be split 65-35 which is not what I want to happen to my money. There is nothing on my account with HSL to confirm that my money will be allocated 100% as I want, which is concerning.

I assumed the same, I thought my vote was for 100% of my money to go to the playing budget, not 65%, if thats what the email implies

Or perhaps it is 100%

HSL - You can be reassured that if you vote 100% for either category your contributions will go to the category you vote for.

We also have some donators who have an interest in both.

We want to make sure that going forward everyone is happy and that we can direct your funds in accordance with your wishes

[Purple & Green]

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I'd consider joining if there was a method of transferring financial contribuitions directly to the Club as I don't see the need for any HS involvement.

Why pay money to one group for subsequent onward transmission to the Football Club?

What makes Hibernian Supporters contributions different from handing £300 in to the office?


Subject to meeting Member eligibility criteria, you will acquire legal ownership status in Hibernian Supporters which has legal ownership of shares in HFC. You will receive a Membership Certificate to demonstrate proof of ownership. And of course you’ll have a voice in a democratic process.

[wallpaperman]

I thought it was explained quite clearly that they couldn’t split every single monthly donation pound for pound, however, your vote would count equally the same as everyone else’s.

it does bring an anomaly that someone paying £10 would have the same weighting as someone paying £40 I admit, but it’s maybe the best they could come up with admin wise at the time, and something they could look at changing longer term.

Purple and Green - why should we not back the new owner? As far as I am aware he has already put some money where his mouth is, for example, we are no longer paying out £500k loan repayments each year, as that was cleared. Does he not deserve some goodwill until proven otherwise?

i’ve said this before, we are so far behind our city neighbours in backing our club financially for the long term. Almost feels like we are always trying to find a reason not to back Hibs, always looking for some ulterior motive, it’s quite sad in some ways.

[jacomo]

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When Farmer and Petrie were in charge, some people used that as a reason not to donate to HSL

Now that they have left, you are doing exactly the same.

Its difficult to know how HSL can win when we have skewed logic like this in play...........................

When Farmer and Petrie was in charge, there was little doubt about the strategy. You might not have agreed with it - and many didn’t - but we all knew where we stood.

Now it feels like we are in the dark as to what the plan is.

[Purple & Green]

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When Farmer and Petrie were in charge, some people used that as a reason not to donate to HSL

Now that they have left, you are doing exactly the same.

Its difficult to know how HSL can win when we have skewed logic like this in play...........................

I don’t know if you’re being deliberately disingenuous but, if Tom Farmer had come up with a scheme where I donate £10 a month and it went into the Hibernian cash pot to run the club for no say and no accountability then safe to say I wouldn’t have donated a penny. Actually, I might have if it was clear and straightforward...

The issue yet to come is the 10% nominee shareholder isn’t going to sell his shareholding at cost, so the 35% kept for future shares will be revisited and in all likelihood chucked into the hibs pot too.


If we’re going to have a donation scheme, have a donation scheme. If we’re going to have fan minority ownership, have a fan minority ownership scheme. Don’t mix the two up, because it won’t work, you won’t keep everyone happy with a mish mash of the two.

And that’s not meant as criticism of the good hibs men and women trying to do the best they can with HSL - they’ve been left to pick up the pieces from the club initiated and controlled scheme.

[Purple & Green]

If you want 100% of your money to go to the club, and you’re a full paid up member, you could create a new membership, no?

[Andy74]

This is unfortunately a bit of a mess now.

I think future share purchases are just a waste of cash. I’d need to be persuaded that there’s any chunk of private shares in Hibs owned by anyone who isn’t just a fan with the same general aims as the rest of us.

So I have some shares that I bought just to be part of it, get my certificate and an AGM invite. I can now keep one, sell the rest to HSL and get my money back. Paid for by other supporters with the aim of increasing HSL percentage for no real good reason.

This isn’t really a viable mechanism that fans can get behind in any numbers.

[Purple & Green]

I think I’ve detailed above my concerns, which I suppose is primarily as using HSL as a vehicle for donating money to the club without shares being obtained in return.

I don’t think we can make comparisons with Hearts or Aberdeen. They are both very different schemes, I’m not sure if either would work for us, but it might be worth exploring what RG’s exit strategy is, and whether an agreement similar to FOH would be feasible. A premium membership scheme like Aberdna might also see more money going into the club - I’d be amazed if RG and AP aren’t currently looking at this.

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I thought it was explained quite clearly that they couldn’t split every single monthly donation pound for pound, however, your vote would count equally the same as everyone else’s.

it does bring an anomaly that someone paying £10 would have the same weighting as someone paying £40 I admit, but it’s maybe the best they could come up with admin wise at the time, and something they could look at changing longer term.

Purple and Green - why should we not back the new owner? As far as I am aware he has already put some money where his mouth is, for example, we are no longer paying out £500k loan repayments each year, as that was cleared. Does he not deserve some goodwill until proven otherwise?

i’ve said this before, we are so far behind our city neighbours in backing our club financially for the long term. Almost feels like we are always trying to find a reason not to back Hibs, always looking for some ulterior motive, it’s quite sad in some ways.

[hongkonghibee]

Question for hsl:
how will HSL use its voting rights at the AGM?
will people starting payments after october 1st 2019 , have any say in how HSL votes?

[hibbybob]

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I'd consider joining if there was a method of transferring financial contribuitions directly to the Club as I don't see the need for any HS involvement.

Why pay money to one group for subsequent onward transmission to the Football Club?

100% of contributions always went to the club and we had the added bonus of gathering shares under HSL. Unfortunately the shares are no longer available but perhaps it's still better/easier for the club to receive money in larger amounts and leave most of the admin to the unpaid volunteers that run HSL. Does it really matter how the money gets to Hibs just as long as it gets there.

By joining HSL now 100% of your contributions will go the football club.

I really don't understand why people are so negative towards HSL, especially those who haven't joined and often use the most petty of excuses not to join but put the scheme down at every opportunity.
If you want to contribute do so and if not don't!
Perhaps those who constantly criticise the scheme should consider volunteering and try to change things from within.

Well done to those that run HSL as it seems to be a thankless task. Their efforts have provided the club with a substantial amount of money whilst placing shares in "safe" hands.

EDIT - I didn't mean to direct the above solely to Golden Bear.

[jacomo]

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When Farmer and Petrie were in charge, some people used that as a reason not to donate to HSL

Now that they have left, you are doing exactly the same.

Its difficult to know how HSL can win when we have skewed logic like this in play...........................

When Farmer and Petrie was in charge, there was little doubt about the strategy. You might not have agreed with it - and many didn’t - but we all knew where we stood.

Now it feels like we are in the dark as to what the plan is.

[JohnM1875]

Think that'll be me done with it. Thought when I voted my money would be going to the cause I opted for. Not split in any way.

I really don't understand how difficult it is to set it up so the money I donate goes 100% to the footballing dept. Surely it's as simple as setting up two different subscription types. One for footballing dept and one for future shares?

I get the guys running it are doing this voluntarily and have other commitments so I'm not going to be too judgemental. Just don't fancy 35% of my donation going towards something that might never happen.

[wallpaperman]

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Think that'll be me done with it. Thought when I voted my money would be going to the cause I opted for. Not split in any way.

I really don't understand how difficult it is to set it up so the money I donate goes 100% to the footballing dept. Surely it's as simple as setting up two different subscription types. One for footballing dept and one for future shares?

I get the guys running it are doing this voluntarily and have other commitments so I'm not going to be too judgemental. Just don't fancy 35% of my donation going towards something that might never happen.

I really hope you reconsider and see the bigger picture.

I understand that people are seeing it the way you do, but someone who has voted for all their money going towards shares will also say, ‘wait a minute, only 35% of my money is going to shares’.

While technically they are right, it’s evened up by the opposite for people like you (and me!).

It’s not the time to bail out folks unless we’re happy falling ever financially behind our neighbours.

[weecounty hibby]

I'm amazed that enough people voted to potentially give their hard earned cash to someone ither than Hibs. I will take some time to consider my position. I 100% do not work hard to give my cash to someone I don't know, probably never heard of and if they really are taking cash for their Hibs shares, then someone who I probably wouldn't be too happy to talk to. They could we'll make a profit. I want all of my money to go directly to Hibs not people profiteering

[JohnM1875]

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I really hope you reconsider and see the bigger picture.

I understand that people are seeing it the way you do, but someone who has voted for all their money going towards shares will also say, ‘wait a minute, only 35% of my money is going to shares’.

While technically they are right, it’s evened up by the opposite for people like you (and me!).

It’s not the time to bail out folks unless we’re happy falling ever financially behind our neighbours.

I'm not going to make any rash decisions just yet.

But that's kinda my point. Surely there doesn't have to be any one questioning where a percentage of their donation is going? Just set it up as two different subscription options. Then 100% of everyone's money goes exactly where they want it to.

Like I said I have no experience in setting things like this up. So have no idea of the difficulties involved. But it sounds like an easy option.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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I'm amazed that enough people voted to potentially give their hard earned cash to someone ither than Hibs. I will take some time to consider my position. I 100% do not work hard to give my cash to someone I don't know, probably never heard of and if they really are taking cash for their Hibs shares, then someone who I probably wouldn't be too happy to talk to. They could we'll make a profit. I want all of my money to go directly to Hibs not people profiteering

Because they have a preference for safeguarding the long term future of our club rather then blindly lobbing money (with no accountability) to the club which could then be siphoned off into infrastructure projects?

Not having a go BTW - donating to either option is better than not donating at all IMO, just giving the alternative viewpoint.

[MacGruber]

It sounds fine to me. Maybe misunderstood by some.... or me!

People saying I voted 100% for club so not happy their contribution is being split - I don't think it is split. The same with voting for shares.

If you voted 100% either way surely that is what happens. Is that not what they have said this morning.

For example

Hibby 1 - £100 contribution - 100% shares
Hibby 2 - £1000 contributon - 100% club
Hibby 3 - £2000 contribution - 50% each

Pot to HSL = £3100.
Made up of £ 1100 shares, £2000 club.

So HSL say the contributions are split:-
35% shares and 65% club.

So... on this basis, HSL say the split for contibutions is 35% and 65% but Hibbies 1,2 & 3 still pay the way they voted.

They don't understand that though so bump gums....

Or have I got it wrong? ... If so, is my way better lol

[OfficialHSL]

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It sounds fine to me. Maybe misunderstood by some.... or me!

People saying I voted 100% for club so not happy their contribution is being split - I don't think it is split. The same with voting for shares.

If you voted 100% either way surely that is what happens. Is that not what they have said this morning.

For example

Hibby 1 - £100 contribution - 100% shares
Hibby 2 - £1000 contributon - 100% club
Hibby 3 - £2000 contribution - 50% each

Pot to HSL = £3100.
Made up of £ 1100 shares, £2000 club.

So HSL say the contributions are split:-
35% shares and 65% club.

So... on this basis, HSL say the split for contibutions is 35% and 65% but Hibbies 1,2 & 3 still pay the way they voted.

They don't understand that though so bump gums....

Or have I got it wrong? ... If so, is my way better lol

You have it right.

Hibernian Supporters

[wallpaperman]

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You have it right.

Hibernian Supporters

Excellent, so HSL have categorically confirmed that 100% of each person’s donation goes to what they want.

I wasn’t sure, but now confirmed so that can be put to bed, can’t it?

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Think that'll be me done with it. Thought when I voted my money would be going to the cause I opted for. Not split in any way.

I really don't understand how difficult it is to set it up so the money I donate goes 100% to the footballing dept. Surely it's as simple as setting up two different subscription types. One for footballing dept and one for future shares?

I get the guys running it are doing this voluntarily and have other commitments so I'm not going to be too judgemental. Just don't fancy 35% of my donation going towards something that might never happen.

i really don’t see the issue. If you voted for your money to go solely to the playing budget then you’re monthly contribution will be part of the 65% that goes to that

[JohnM1875]

So, let me get this straight. The 65% - 35% split is the outcome of the poll total.

Meaning of all members polled 65% of the people want their money going to the footballing dept and all of their contribution will go towards that.

The other 35% want their donation going towards future shares and all of their donations will go to that.

If so, that's good stuff.

[Eric]

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It sounds fine to me. Maybe misunderstood by some.... or me!

People saying I voted 100% for club so not happy their contribution is being split - I don't think it is split. The same with voting for shares.

If you voted 100% either way surely that is what happens. Is that not what they have said this morning.

For example

Hibby 1 - £100 contribution - 100% shares
Hibby 2 - £1000 contributon - 100% club
Hibby 3 - £2000 contribution - 50% each

Pot to HSL = £3100.
Made up of £ 1100 shares, £2000 club.

So HSL say the contributions are split:-
35% shares and 65% club.

So... on this basis, HSL say the split for contibutions is 35% and 65% but Hibbies 1,2 & 3 still pay the way they voted.

They don't understand that though so bump gums....

Or have I got it wrong? ... If so, is my way better lol

Also the contribution from Hibby 4 - who didn't vote - will be split 35/65 in accordance with the final outcome of the vote.