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  1. #61
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    I know well the work that Kinnock jnr has been doing on brexit and that Neil Kinnock has long since retired but I have to admit when I read it I thought of Neil Kinnock as well.
    Showing my age.


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Kinnock Jr and Lisa Nandy have been pretty cogent whenever they've been in the spotlight explaining their views. Welcome change from the infantile stuff that comes out of the Cabinet's gobs.
    A lot of the details have passed me by or rather, as I explained in the OP, I am avoiding most of the news broadcasts because they're literally doing my head in. Anger or depression are never far away if I succumb and watch a programme.

    I've been pretty much restricting myself to headlines, BBC front page stories and Guardian reports for a while now. I find this forum as safe a place to read about what's happening as any!
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £2,389.68!



  4. #63
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    How? Have you heard of the minimum wage and national living wage? What line of work are you in that is likely to be at threat from lower wages because of an increase in potential employees? Do you have a contract, if so your salary is protected by the terms of your contract.

    Which flood of non Europeans do you see coming to this basket case of a country and what jobs do you expect them to take?

    Hang on, I've got it, you're a gypsy traveller, who sells pegs, picks tatties and soft fruit and you feel threatened.

    Get a grip!
    Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.

  5. #64
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    How? Have you heard of the minimum wage and national living wage? What line of work are you in that is likely to be at threat from lower wages because of an increase in potential employees? Do you have a contract, if so your salary is protected by the terms of your contract.

    Which flood of non Europeans do you see coming to this basket case of a country and what jobs do you expect them to take?

    Hang on, I've got it, you're a gypsy traveller, who sells pegs, picks tatties and soft fruit and you feel threatened.

    Get a grip!
    Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.
    I'm still trying to figure out where this threat is coming from. Is it the hundreds of thousands of Romanians that the Daily Mail warned you about?

    Despite fears that Great Britain will be overrun by migrants ready to steal jobs, drain the system, and stretch the waiting time for your doctor’s appointment, the truth looks very different.The M&S suit you bought to wear to your job interview? That wouldn’t exist without a migrant. That Queen song blasting in your ears as you walk to the GP? Wouldn’t exist without a refugee.
    Out of all EU countries, the UK has the most citizens living abroad.
    migrants from the European Economic Area contributed 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits between 2001 and 2011.
    26% of doctors in the NHS were born abroad
    That really lowers the wages


    https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/con...SAAEgLi__D_BwE

    In 2018, the most common reason that non-EU migrants gave for having originally moved to the UK was family (49% of non-EU born), followed by work (20%). The high shares of family migrants in the non-EU population in part reflects the fact that people who come on family visas are more likely to settle permanently than people who come on work or student visas – as explained in the Migration Observatory briefing, Settlement in the UK.
    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...k-an-overview/


    I'm happy for you to disprove any of the above to support your opinion that non EU migrants will take all our jobs and lower the wages. If you can?
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  7. #66
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    From what I can make out you are picking me up wrong.

    My concern cane from the fact that the EU would no longer be able to set immigration policy, or employment law.

    I believe these are good reasons to remain in the EU.

    Also, I don't read the Daily Mail.

    Edit: far from me proving you wrong, you have shown me my fears are unfounded. Which is pretty much what adult discussion is about.

    Next time, I won't say what worries me, and just labour on with the sane prejudices and fears.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 12-10-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
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    Agriculture NEEDS a deal to survive in the short term, a bit of a worry for livestock producers who rely on export markets.

    Overall a deal would reduce my anxiety massively, but I’m still angry about Brexit and would be delighted for revoke/remain in any guise.
    Last edited by Jones28; 12-10-2019 at 09:36 PM.

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    From what I can make out you are picking me up wrong.

    My concern cane from the fact that the EU would no longer be able to set immigration policy, or employment law.

    I believe these are good reasons to remain in the EU.

    Also, I don't read the Daily Mail.

    Edit: far from me proving you wrong, you have shown me my fears are unfounded. Which is pretty much what adult discussion is about.

    Next time, I won't say what worries me, and just labour on with the sane prejudices and fears.
    Now now.
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  10. #69
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-nhs-staff-shortages-burnout-culture-needs-fixing-685618?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=jp _reshare

    Stockpile nurses, what are they indentured slaves? Here's a better idea increase their wages to a level that would make them want to stay.

    You could also, you know, recruit more people to the profession, using the same strstegy. Something that is beyond the main union. https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/rcn-responds-to-immigration-white-paper

    "By all means, continue to pay our members less than 30k, just make them exempt from the minimum wage for immigration.'

    I accept that the figures show immigration does not effect wages, but at the same time, here is one union that is fully behind immigration because it attracts people to work at a low wage. They should be attracting people to come and work at a high wage. No wonder the leaders were ousted.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 14-10-2019 at 08:54 AM.

  11. #70
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Park View Post
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    You dont think a no deal complicates the argument for Independence?
    No I don't. It yet again points out quite clearly why the UK doesn't suit Scotlands interests.

  12. #71
    @hibs.net private member Diclonius's Avatar
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    Latest Queen's speech rumour is ending of free movement under UK law, so: No. I would not in any way be relieved. I want a route out if Johnson and co turn this into a libertarian tax haven.

  13. #72
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Latest Queen's speech rumour is ending of free movement under UK law, so: No. I would not in any way be relieved. I want a route out if Johnson and co turn this into a libertarian tax haven.
    I have been racking my brain as to where I could go if I wanted to leave this country. Hopefully other EU countries will offer a sympathetic approach to those of us who want out.

    Would this ending of free movement make it harder for us to leave?

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I have been racking my brain as to where I could go if I wanted to leave this country. Hopefully other EU countries will offer a sympathetic approach to those of us who want out.

    Would this ending of free movement make it harder for us to leave?
    Yes, it's back to the era of visas and work permits. If the other EU countries want to make things awkward for British visitors, they need only tie up the applications in red tape.
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  15. #74
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Yes, it's back to the era of visas and work permits. If the other EU countries want to make things awkward for British visitors, they need only tie up the applications in red tape.
    So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.

  16. #75
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.
    What makes you so sure you’ll have to leave Scotland?

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.
    I don't think that would be legal, due its being discriminatory. Much more likely we end up recruiting more doctors and nurses from outside the EU - then the bigots in the country will no doubt start complaining about black immigration again, talking nostalgically about the era when white Europeans used to come in large numbers, whilst conveniently forgetting they never wanted them here. You can read it like a book. Some of the Brexit types want to return to some mythical English/British white Christian past when there was no crime and we all played cricket on the village green.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  18. #77
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    What makes you so sure you’ll have to leave Scotland?
    It's always been a dream, however if Scotland is an EU country, it would solve seeking citizenship elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    I don't think that would be legal, due its being discriminatory. Much more likely we end up recruiting more doctors and nurses from outside the EU - then the bigots in the country will no doubt start complaining about black immigration again, talking nostalgically about the era when white Europeans used to come in large numbers, whilst conveniently forgetting they never wanted them here. You can read it like a book. Some of the Brexit types want to return to some mythical English/British white Christian past when there was no crime and we all played cricket on the village green.
    You can certainly read them like a book.

    I did raise this possibility earlier of people from outside the EU working for lower wages, and it was something the likes of the RCN were happy to go along with. On the whole though emigration does not play a big part on wage levels; so, the evidence suggests that we'll be none the worse off if people come from within the EU, or outwith the EU.

    As for being illegal, what would that concern an unelected fascist junta? The general public are already happy for public servants like the military and NHS to be underpaid and treated shabbily as it is - can't see much of an uprising to defend "our boys", or "the angels", should Herr Johnson and Dokter Cummings tell us they are happy to work for free.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 14-10-2019 at 11:40 AM.

  19. #78
    Testimonial Due Victor Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    No I don't. It yet again points out quite clearly why the UK doesn't suit Scotlands interests.
    From that perspective I agree.

    However given that the majority of Scotland's "exports" go to the RUK, it would without doubt be an issue for many businesses in an independent Scotland in the EU, if there was Tariffs in place on goods for transactions between Scotland and UK.

    Thats a serious issue that is hard to address.

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