Fraser Murray & Oli Shaw

[MacGruber]

It's time for these boys to get their chance. Show a bit of faith in our young guys coming through. Not saying definite starters (though I would start Murray)
but need to be giving them chances from the bench at least to have an impact.

[makaveli1875]

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It's time for these boys to get their chance. Show a bit of faith in our young guys coming through. Not saying definite starters (though I would start Murray)
but need to be giving them chances from the bench at least to have an impact.

Exactly, pointless *****ing millions on academy and training infrastructure to not bother giving any of the youngsters coming through a chance

[McKenzie]

Agree with Murray. Shaw is not the answer in front of goal for us. Surely questions have to be asked as why we are not producing the quality of player to challenge the average first time squad we have.

[Slim Shady]

They were both asked to go on loan in order to free money up so we could bring in other players.
one refused wanting to fight for his place.
The other wanted to go but didn’t fancy St Johnstone or Partick Thistle as the options.

Hecky is on video stating that Shaw would need to be moved on to bring a striker in.

[Musselbound]

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Agree with Murray. Shaw is not the answer in front of goal for us. Surely questions have to be asked as why we are not producing the quality of player to challenge the average first time squad we have.

But who is the answer in front of goal? That in itself is an argument for more game time for Shaw until we get someone better in. I'd also like to see more of Fraser Murray.

[CloudSquall]

Questions have to be asked over the budget and how it was used if we ended up in the position that Shaw had to be moved out on loan if anyone was to be brought in.

[Unseen work]

It’s funny because I think Shaw is better than the vast majority make out and Murray isn’t as good as he is made out by some.

I do think both are good prospects but at 20/21 they really need to be starting or coming off the bench and making an impact.

Murrays main issue is his position, but I really like his ability to turn on the ball and always seems to have an effort at goal or create a chance.

Shaw I think of given the same amount of game time as Kamberi or Doidge this season, would have more goals.

Surprised if either of them turned down a move to St Johnstone unless they were told oppertunities would be similar to Hibs which I doubt.

I really want to see Gullan given a run in the team. Was also impressed with Block at right back the other day.

Does anyone know how Innes Murray is getting on? Couple of times iv seen him he’s a bit of a McGeouch type but never seems to get mentioned for the first team. He’s already 21 but has a contract until 2022 which he signed this summer? Seems a bit odd.

On a side note, when was the last player we brought through with genuine pace?

Although I hate Aberdeen and they have a lot of injuries, it was good to see them playing two youngster in Campbell (18) and Ethan Ross (18). Couldn’t see us doing that injuries or not.

[hibee-boys]

Not seen anything from these 2 that would lead me to believe they should be first team regulars. File under Handling, Stanton, Harris etc.

[The 90+2]

Simply not as good as Doidge and Newell.

Said nobody, ever.

[IberianHibernian]

The few times I`ve seen F Murray or Shaw they`ve shown promise and hopefully they`ll earn the chance to show their ability in the first team but there have always been players like that . I can remember seeing players in the reserve team in the 1970s who really impressed week in week out but in some cases never got even one first team match before being released ( days of only one sub made it harder for young players to get a chance ) .

[IberianHibernian]

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Not seen anything from these 2 that would lead me to believe they should be first team regulars. File under Handling, Stanton, Harris etc.

I agree about first bit but all 5 players you mention are still young and I`d be surprised if at least one of the five didn`t make an impact at at least Hibs level in the next five years assuming Handling and Harris still give priority to football in their work lives ( Stanton is playing in a higher division so I assume is still giving priority to football ) . Just wish we had players with talent of Harris or Sam Stanton on the bench now .

[Unseen work]

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I agree about first bit but all 5 players you mention are still young and I`d be surprised if at least one of the five didn`t make an impact at at least Hibs level in the next five years assuming Handling and Harris still give priority to football in their work lives ( Stanton is playing in a higher division so I assume is still giving priority to football ) . Just wish we had players with talent of Harris or Sam Stanton on the bench now .

I’d be stunned if any made it to the top tier in Scotland with the exception of Stanton who may just about manage as a squad player with United if they get promoted.

Stanton and Harris wouldn’t get near our bench imo.

[DetroitHibs]

I listen to a lot of the old pro players on the Si Ferry podcast and everyone single one mentions the upbringing of young players making or breaking players. The young players cleaned the boots and terracing and had to earn the respect of the senior players. Changed days now. The youngsters are mollycoddled and wrapped in cotton wool.

It’s been discussed here before, that some saw it as borderline bullying and came from the dinosaur era. Wether people want to admit it, the dinosaurs still exist in our and the away support. These laddies come from our nice cosy East Mains in to the frying pan of abuse from our own supporters and the away end too. Most can’t hack it and go in to there shells and hide, we’ve seen it umpteen times with players from our academy. The lads need to be taught to toughen up and be mentally strong as well as physically strong.

[MWHIBBIES]

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I listen to a lot of the old pro players on the Si Ferry podcast and everyone single one mentions the upbringing of young players making or breaking players. The young players cleaned the boots and terracing and had to earn the respect of the senior players. Changed days now. The youngsters are mollycoddled and wrapped in cotton wool.

It’s been discussed here before, that some saw it as borderline bullying and came from the dinosaur era. Wether people want to admit it, the dinosaurs still exist in our and the away support. These laddies come from our nice cosy East Mains in to the frying pan of abuse from our own supporters and the away end too. Most can’t hack it and go in to there shells and hide, we’ve seen it umpteen times with players from our academy. The lads need to be taught to toughen up and be mentally strong as well as physically strong.

Changed days for the better. The world in general is moving on from those times and its a very positive thing.

None of our young players are hiding, they just aren't getting minutes.

[McKenzie]

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Changed days for the better. The world in general is moving on from those times and its a very positive thing.

None of our young players are hiding, they just aren't getting minutes.

To get minutes you have to be better than what is currently playing. Neither Murray or shaw are 100% better than what we have. We aren’t going to just play young players because they came from the academy. The academy players have to earn the right to play.

[DetroitHibs]

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Changed days for the better. The world in general is moving on from those times and its a very positive thing.

None of our young players are hiding, they just aren't getting minutes.

The golden generation had to clean boots and deal with Yogi and the boys. They all talked about it and were better for it. You don’t hear them complain and say it was a bad thing. Since then we’ve had hundreds of youngsters come through the youth system and very few made it at Hibs.

Harris
Handling
Chisolm
Stanton
Booth
Wotherspoon
Forster
McCann
Byrne
Crane
Dabrowski

Just a few that have had minutes from previous managers and couldn’t make the grade. Name ten players that have broke in to the Hibs team and forged a good career with Hibs, or stepped up to better things in the last ten years.

[BILLYHIBS]

Hecky wanted to put Murray out on loan Murray refused stating he would rather stay and fight for his place

There is only going to be one winner

Murray to me looks quality

Shaw has not improved at the rate expected

He has looked lively in the short game time he has had just needs one of his attempts on goal to go in

I wonder what difference it would have made to his confidence if that goal against Hearts was allowed to stand

The way things are looking with Shaw it is like being in a long term relationship and you both know it should end.

[MWHIBBIES]

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The golden generation had to clean boots and deal with Yogi and the boys. They all talked about it and were better for it. You don’t hear them complain and say it was a bad thing. Since then we’ve had hundreds of youngsters come through the youth system and very few made it at Hibs.

Harris
Handling
Chisolm
Stanton
Booth
Wotherspoon
Forster
McCann
Byrne
Crane
Dabrowski

Just a few that have had minutes from previous managers and couldn’t make the grade. Name ten players that have broke in to the Hibs team and forged a good career with Hibs, or stepped up to better things in the last ten years.

I think we have bigger problems with youth development that aren't fixed by going back to "the ****in good ol' days"

This myth that actually supporting young players, treating them as human beings, giving them room to progress etc is bad just doesn't add up for me.

Wotherspoon has gone on to play in Europe and win the Scottish cup. He's had a very good career so far. Honestly, none of the others on that list were ever actually that good. You think Riordan scored 30 yards screamers all the time because he cleaned some boots and got the piss taken out of him by older players? No. He was actually just an exceptional talent along with the others in that side.

Shaw and Murray will have decent careers, maybe not at Hibs but they clearly have talent. Both would contribute and improve alot if we trusted them to play every week.

[Hibs4185]

Shaw has his doubters but I’m fairly sure he would’ve scored one or two of those chances on Saturday.

[makaveli1875]

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Shaw has his doubters but I’m fairly sure he would’ve scored one or two of those chances on Saturday.

Shaws not good enough for this club apparently, we must persist with the 2 useless huddies we have up front. Even though neither of them can hit a barn door from 5 yards away

[Allant1981]

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Shaws not good enough for this club apparently, we must persist with the 2 useless huddies we have up front. Even though neither of them can hit a barn door from 5 yards away

Well he clearly isnt seeing as he very rarely starts or plays under his current manager or previous manager. If he was doing enough in training or when he does get a chance he would be playing

[Brightside]

Murray needs to move in Jan. he’s the kind of player who would
be playing every week for the likes of Motherwell etc. Hibs appear scared to give young players a run of games now.

[SickBoy32]

Murray looked one of our better players in the League Cup fixtures in the summer, and has since been frozen out of the picture completely - bizzarre from PH, especially with the results his signings have brought us.

Always feel Shaw gets too much stick, good finisher and his physique is improving too. Think we all know he'd have buried at least one of those chances up at Pittodrie.

And to think we were told we were getting a manager who gave youth a chance

[green with envy]

I find the Murray one quite bizarre, as Heckingbottom stated after we beat Livi last season - Friday night game how impressed he was with him after he came on as a sub and would be one of the young players that would be in his plans for the new season and was looking hopefully to build the team around.

How you can do that without playing him is beyond me, but then he has said other things that have yet to materialise.

[BlackSheep]

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Agree with Murray. Shaw is not the answer in front of goal for us. Surely questions have to be asked as why we are not producing the quality of player to challenge the average first time squad we have.

It’s this attitude towards Shaw that is holding him back. He is a really good young player, but nerves/confidence seem to be getting the better of him.. especially considering the pressure he faces whenever he plays... we need goals and that pressure alone can cause players to fluff their lines... look at Doidge.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I feel sorry for Shaw. I actually think there’s a good player in there that simply needs more game time. Played well in the recent development game as well.

I would get him in now. It’s not as if Doidge and Kamberi are rattling them in anyway.

[makaveli1875]

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Well he clearly isnt seeing as he very rarely starts or plays under his current manager or previous manager. If he was doing enough in training or when he does get a chance he would be playing

The previous 2 managers played him and he scored a few decent goals for them . the current manager is clueless

[turn and burn]

I can't see Heck giving them any minutes and they'll need to move on for game time. I might be called a heck hater or whatever, but let's be honest; he's a stubborn man who is going to stick with his terribly average signings than relent and take a chance on youngsters.

[Alex Trager]

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Murray needs to move in Jan. he’s the kind of player who would
be playing every week for the likes of Motherwell etc. Hibs appear scared to give young players a run of games now.

Alternatively lets get rid of the manager.

[Gatecrasher]

I'd rather have Murray playing than the imposter playing his position now and Shaw is better leaving for the good of his career because if he's not getting a game ahead of a huddy like Doidge then the manager has spoken.

Maybe they know hecky won't be around for much longer and a new manager might give them the time they need.