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  1. #31
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    How about empathy and exploring their racism concerns...??

    You can always help them reflect on their trainers choice afterwards ....
    I am genuinely interested, why was this not the same issue 20 years ago as it is now? And, who speaks for people of colour?

    I recently saw a programme where Trevor Phillips said the CRE got it all wrong in the 90s, and wonder how strategies evolve.

    I developed a training programme on the back of the current thinking at the time. It bothers me that I was helping to put out the wrong message.

    In Trudeau's case, I find the way political opponents have jumped on his back to capitalise on his error more distasteful than him blacking up.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 21-09-2019 at 04:33 PM.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    That's fair enough. But a lot of things come from a time of inequality and disrespect that we still use today. It always amuses me when somebody points the finger at others for percieved racism while wearing their sweatshop bangladeshi adidas trainers.
    The fact that race and poverty are conflated in your mind says a lot

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    I tend to keep out of these kind of debates, but earlier this year the issue of racism and Bipoc in the craft community I inhabit was raised by a white male designer of privilege, in the most awful way.

    I know a lot of people in the community who found it disgraceful and some spoke out about it. Here is a blog by someone I know.

    https://www.hilltopcloud.co.uk/blog/...-the-spinning#
    Safe to say that when I woke up this morning I had no idea that by teatime I would have learned there was such a thing as a white supremacist knitter.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
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    The fact that race and poverty are conflated in your mind says a lot
    Is it not true?

  6. #35
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
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    The fact that race and poverty are conflated in your mind says a lot
    Because the statistics clearly state otherwise?

  7. #36
    I thought the phrase "people of colour" as used above by a few posters is now considered racist??

    The only positive from this whole ****storm is that Lenny Henry FINALLY said something funny!

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I am genuinely interested, why was this not the same issue 20 years ago as it is now? And, who speaks for people of colour?

    I recently saw a programme where Trevor Phillips said the CRE got it all wrong in the 90s, and wonder how strategies evolve.

    I developed a training programme on the back of the current thinking at the time. It bothers me that I was helping to put out the wrong message.

    In Trudeau's case, I find the way political opponents have jumped on his back to capitalise on his error more distasteful than him blacking up.
    It’s a good question - perhaps people who have suffered prejudice have a stronger voice now and over the last couple of decades? Also, I suspect most people are more sensitive to the impact and issues than they used to be ...

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by brianmc View Post
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    I thought the phrase "people of colour" as used above by a few posters is now considered racist??
    Think 'people of colour' is U and 'coloured people' is non-U.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    It’s a good question - perhaps people who have suffered prejudice have a stronger voice now and over the last couple of decades? Also, I suspect most people are more sensitive to the impact and issues than they used to be ...
    I hear what you are saying, but I also suspect that having done the big stuff, some people are starting to chip away at the minutae.

    Billy Bragg said when we were standing to racism in the 70s, it wasn't about protecting our multi cultural society, it was about stopping repatriation.

    I sometimes think problems are created because people might be offended, rather than actually asking anybody's views

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Is it not true?
    No, it's certainly not true that they're the same thing. They are of course strongly correlated, but to suggest that you can't call out racist behaviour without simultaneously addressing wealth inequality is rather unhelpful.

  12. #41
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    Racist **** off our streets!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I hear what you are saying, but I also suspect that having done the big stuff, some people are starting to chip away at the minutae.

    Billy Bragg said when we were standing to racism in the 70s, it wasn't about protecting our multi cultural society, it was about stopping repatriation.

    I sometimes think problems are created because people might be offended, rather than actually asking anybody's views
    I can’t disagree with the spirit of your post - other than add that it is the voice of the minorities and those who suffer prejudice who should define the boundaries ...those groups can let us understand what hurts and impacts and what doesn’t ...
    Last edited by bigwheel; 21-09-2019 at 05:12 PM.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    I can’t disagree with the spirit of your post - other than add that it is the voice of the minority’s and those who suffer prejudice who should define the boundaries ...those groups can let us understand what hurts and impacts and what doesn’t ...
    We live in a world now where everybody feels marginalized. People have been taught to feel offended over things that they wouldn't have previously cared a jot about.

    Just ask yourself this simple logical question. What has somebody dressing up as someone (who just happens to be black) at a silly dress up party got in connection with a history of racial slavery and discrimination?

    You said those who suffer prejudice should be allowed to define the boundaries. But what if everybody feels like they're suffering from some form of prejudice and all of these different boundaries end up getting pushed to a point where nobody can do anything anymore out of the fear of offending someone?

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Safe to say that when I woke up this morning I had no idea that by teatime I would have learned there was such a thing as a white supremacist knitter.
    Not so much white supremacist knitter as white gay knitter who objected to #diversknity, a phrase he coined, being used for other minorities.

    As a straight male knitter I think I am in a minority. 😉
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    I can’t disagree with the spirit of your post - other than add that it is the voice of the minorities and those who suffer prejudice who should define the boundaries ...those groups can let us understand what hurts and impacts and what doesn’t ...
    No argument here.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    Is the film White Chicks classed as racist? There was take of making another one.
    Also Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder.


  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Think 'people of colour' is U and 'coloured people' is non-U.
    Ahhh....... Thanks for that.

    *Though I expect this will all change in the near future.


    In case anyone missed the Lenny Henry reference - Mr Henry walked on stage at an awards thingy on Thursday night(I think) and opened with the words "Good evening, I'm Justin Trudeau".

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    We live in a world now where everybody feels marginalized. People have been taught to feel offended over things that they wouldn't have previously cared a jot about.

    Just ask yourself this simple logical question. What has somebody dressing up as someone (who just happens to be black) at a silly dress up party got in connection with a history of racial slavery and discrimination?

    You said those who suffer prejudice should be allowed to define the boundaries. But what if everybody feels like they're suffering from some form of prejudice and all of these different boundaries end up getting pushed to a point where nobody can do anything anymore out of the fear of offending someone?
    Tbh. I suspect my view on this is not really helpful for you -


    ask some of your black friends and/or colleagues what they think of “blackface” and racial prejudice today .

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmc View Post
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    Ahhh....... Thanks for that.

    *Though I expect this will all change in the near future.


    In case anyone missed the Lenny Henry reference - Mr Henry walked on stage at an awards thingy on Thursday night(I think) and opened with the words "Good evening, I'm Justin Trudeau".
    That is decent for him. He is the least funny funnyman ever to have been paid as a comedian! Has been getting away with it for 40+ years as well.
    I have nothing else to add to this debate as it is hugely complex and anything that you say on the matter gets pounded upon. My views on Lenny Henry being rubbish are not based anyway on race or skin colour!!

  20. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Tbh. I suspect my view on this is not really helpful for you -


    ask some of your black friends and/or colleagues what they think of “blackface” and racial prejudice today .
    I already have and even although they (like myself) take a strong stance against real actual racism. They couldn't care less if a white person turns up as Lionel Richie at some dress up party somewhere, as they realize it has no impact on their life or the lives of others whatsoever.

  21. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    I already have and even although they (like myself) take a strong stance against real actual racism. They couldn't care less if a white person turns up as Lionel Richie at some dress up party somewhere, as they realize it has no impact on their life or the lives of others whatsoever.
    they seem to share the same views as yourself.....did you get any differing views ?

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    they seem to share the same views as yourself.....did you get any differing views ?
    Yes, but only from white people who think they speak for black minorities.

  23. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Also Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder.

    Yea, forgot about that one.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Yes, but only from white people who think they speak for black minorities.
    Jesus....convo closed from this side

  25. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    I don’t know you buddy ...but if you are a white male, then you aren’t really in a place to be the judge ...people of colour , who have battled prejudices all their lives, are the ones to be listened to on issues like this
    Well nor are you to judge if some people born in 90s and later feel the same as those born in 60s and 70s.
    If I choose to revert back to Carlsberg it will have to be The Carlsberg

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