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Thread: Scott Allan

  1. #1
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Scott Allan

    Scotty has had a chequered career but we've seen the best of him at Hibs.

    On occasion we've seen teams built to accommodate mercurially talented players - McLeish built a team to get the best out of Latapy and both Stubbs and Lennon got great stuff out of Scotty before.

    Our current players, tactics and manager don't get the best out of Allan. I get the feeling a 352 would suit him best, but Hecky's never going to play that. He did very well in the championship as part of a diamond but do we have the players to play that now?

    Whoever has the manager's job, the priority must be to get a solid defensive base that allows Allan to float about and create, ideally with a couple of strikers in front of him.

    Part of my frustration is with the fact that we have undeniable quality in our squad. We're not totally pish but results and performances are starting to form a pattern - we play ok, don't score, lose the first goal then start to struggle.
    Last edited by Smartie; 14-09-2019 at 08:07 PM.


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  3. #2
    One of my many gripes with Heckinbottom is that he tries to fit players into his preferred 'system' - and it's failing horribly.

    What he should be doing IMO is finding a system that gets the best out of the players he has available to him.

    His lack of adaptability or willingness to admit he's ever made a mistake is woeful. And for me those reasons are enough to suggest his time is up.

  4. #3
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    Gets an easy ride heís been pish for weeks and when looking to grind out results where we are unbelievably at just now id personally no play him and go 442. Part of our problem is we try to accommodate him in a team thatís toiling. Wonít be popular a know but itís not working Mallan the same but less popular obviously

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    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    Gets an easy ride heís been pish for weeks and when looking to grind out results where we are unbelievably at just now id personally no play him and go 442. Part of our problem is we try to accommodate him in a team thatís toiling. Wonít be popular a know but itís not working Mallan the same but less popular obviously
    I'm glad you mentioned the unmentionable because it's been going through my head as well.

    Obviously my preference would be to build a team to get the best out of Allan, but we've not looked like doing that at any point this season.

    Are we going to need to try something without him?

    The problem with 442 is that I don't look at any of our other midfielders and think they have what it takes to play in a central 2.

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    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I'm glad you mentioned the unmentionable because it's been going through my head as well.

    Obviously my preference would be to build a team to get the best out of Allan, but we've not looked like doing that at any point this season.

    Are we going to need to try something without him?

    The problem with 442 is that I don't look at any of our other midfielders and think they have what it takes to play in a central 2.
    No, Scott Allan isnít the problem here, likewise, neither is Stevie Mallan or Kamberi or any other attacking player that isnít playing well just now.

    These guys havenít turned into bad players over night, theyíre being played in a dysfunctional system that doesnít work and doesnít bring the best out in anybody. This idea that somehow Allan is the problem as he wonít fit into a conventional system is getting on my thrupnies, Scott Allan is a great player and thereís plenty ways we could be getting more out of him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    No, Scott Allan isnít the problem here, likewise, neither is Stevie Mallan or Kamberi or any other attacking player that isnít playing well just now.

    These guys havenít turned into bad players over night, theyíre being played in a dysfunctional system that doesnít work and doesnít bring the best out in anybody. This idea that somehow Allan is the problem as he wonít fit into a conventional system is getting on my thrupnies, Scott Allan is a great player and thereís plenty ways we could be getting more out of him.
    Pish, good players show they are good players regardless of system, maybe not to the best they can be but that is just an excuse. We have a team of players who lack heart, dig and desire donít try and make excuses for guys like Allan who I love btw, he's been crap and deserves the same criticism as others.

    I support HFC not Scott Allan or any other player.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    Pish, good players show they are good players regardless of system, maybe not to the best they can be but that is just an excuse. We have a team of players who lack heart, dig and desire donít try and make excuses for guys like Allan who I love btw, he's been crap and deserves the same criticism as others.

    I support HFC not Scott Allan or any other player.
    Allan was crap today.

    Heís a good player. All the midfielders we have signed are average at best.

    Dropping Allan isnít going to make them hard to beat. They donít have it in them. Allan is t the problem here, as pish as he was today.

  9. #8
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    Allan was crap today.

    Heís a good player. All the midfielders we have signed are average at best.

    Dropping Allan isnít going to make them hard to beat. They donít have it in them. Allan is t the problem here, as pish as he was today.
    I donít mean to single him out as the problem as I agree he isní solely for the mess we are in, Iím being pragmatic and if you are on the run we are you be hard to beat and try win ugly. Too soft we all know heís an attacking luxury player who can win a game in a heart beat not disputing that, my issue is we need to stay in a game before we are out of it which we donít seem to be able to do

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    I donít mean to single him out as the problem as I agree he isní solely for the mess we are in, Iím being pragmatic and if you are on the run we are you be hard to beat and try win ugly. Too soft we all know heís an attacking luxury player who can win a game in a heart beat not disputing that, my issue is we need to stay in a game before we are out of it which we donít seem to be able to do
    We were well in the game today. Then got done by an 80 yard punt. And then Hanlon made another mistake.

    Who do you bring in for Allan that makes us harder to beat or keeps us in the game? His failings were the other way.

    Allan was nothing to do with the crap goals we lost.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    No, Scott Allan isnít the problem here, likewise, neither is Stevie Mallan or Kamberi or any other attacking player that isnít playing well just now.

    These guys havenít turned into bad players over night, theyíre being played in a dysfunctional system that doesnít work and doesnít bring the best out in anybody. This idea that somehow Allan is the problem as he wonít fit into a conventional system is getting on my thrupnies, Scott Allan is a great player and thereís plenty ways we could be getting more out of him.

    I totally agree with you. You set your system to get the best out of your players. You do not not shoehorn players into your system. What amazes me is that he has signed players that clearly don't fit into his system. It has been said on here numerous times that we need a DM but the fact we didn't sign one is, most probably, because he didn't request one. We don't know if the players signed are any good but we do know Scott Allan is and he hasn't turned into a bad player overnight. The only recruitment we have definitely seemed to have gotten wrong is Heckingbottom and we need to make sure that this "small" mistake does not become a large one.

  12. #11
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    I donít blame him for the goals we lost mate I am saying for a player of his ability heís creating nothing and not doing a lot. Hanlon has been pool and for me heís lucky heís getting a game. Porto and another (efi) would be a better solution failing that Jackson but if the manager that signed him doesnít think heís any better then we are toiling.

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    Pish, good players show they are good players regardless of system, maybe not to the best they can be but that is just an excuse. We have a team of players who lack heart, dig and desire donít try and make excuses for guys like Allan who I love btw, he's been crap and deserves the same criticism as others.

    I support HFC not Scott Allan or any other player.
    Itís not pish, do you think Scott Allan is choosing to play badly? Do you really think itís a lack of effort? Of course it isnít, no player deliberately chooses not to play well, poor form is a culmination of a number of factors, one of the main ones being played in a system that suits how they play.

    Scott Allan needs to play in a side that has the ball, heís a ball playing midfielder. He needs to have options ahead of him to create for and he needs to be playing with confidence.

    If we signed Messi and played him at centre half he probably wouldnít be very good, doesnít mean he wasnít a good player it just means heís not being played right. I know thatís an extreme example Iíve used to illustrate a point and I know itís not the same as heís a midfielder who is still being played in midfield but the same principles apply, good players arenít just good players all the time no matter what, theyíre not robots, they need to be played correctly.

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    @hibs.net private member hibbie02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Itís not pish, do you think Scott Allan is choosing to play badly? Do you really think itís a lack of effort? Of course it isnít, no player deliberately chooses not to play well, poor form is a culmination of a number of factors, one of the main ones being played in a system that suits how they play.

    Scott Allan needs to play in a side that has the ball, heís a ball playing midfielder. He needs to have options ahead of him to create for and he needs to be playing with confidence.

    If we signed Messi and played him at centre half he probably wouldnít be very good, doesnít mean he wasnít a good player it just means heís not being played right. I know thatís an extreme example Iíve used to illustrate a point and I know itís not the same as heís a midfielder who is still being played in midfield but the same principles apply, good players arenít just good players all the time no matter what, theyíre not robots, they need to be played correctly.
    Exactly!


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  15. #14
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Itís not pish, do you think Scott Allan is choosing to play badly? Do you really think itís a lack of effort? Of course it isnít, no player deliberately chooses not to play well, poor form is a culmination of a number of factors, one of the main ones being played in a system that suits how they play.

    Scott Allan needs to play in a side that has the ball, heís a ball playing midfielder. He needs to have options ahead of him to create for and he needs to be playing with confidence.

    If we signed Messi and played him at centre half he probably wouldnít be very good, doesnít mean he wasnít a good player it just means heís not being played right. I know thatís an extreme example Iíve used to illustrate a point and I know itís not the same as heís a midfielder who is still being played in midfield but the same principles apply, good players arenít just good players all the time no matter what, theyíre not robots, they need to be played correctly.
    Assume your extending that logic to every other player then? Does hanlon choose to defend bad, does Kamberi choose to not score does vela choose not to dominate a midfield? Itís players playing in formations and positions they should do better in and that are familiar no as if we are playing him centre half come on

    He gets away with murder case we know how good he is and what heís done in previous spells. I seen both Vela and Hallberg graft their balls or today but people will still criticise them cause they arnt Scott Allan

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    Assume your extending that logic to every other player then? Does hanlon choose to defend bad, does Kamberi choose to not score does vela choose not to dominate a midfield? Itís players playing in formations and positions they should do better in and that are familiar no as if we are playing him centre half come on

    He gets away with murder case we know how good he is and what heís done in previous spells. I seen both Vela and Hallberg graft their balls or today but people will still criticise them cause they arnt Scott Allan
    Yes, I think I mentioned Mallan and Kamberi in an earlier post.

    The players arenít to blame for this position we find ourselves in, they are being asked to play a system that doesnít work and itís not bringing the best out in anyone. Even looking at the centre halfís, you can point to individual mistakes but theyíre playing in a system where they get zero protection so mistakes eventually are inevitable.

    FWIW I also had a similar argument about our strikers over the last year or so. People having a pop at McLaren, Kamberi, Shaw, McNulty and now Doidge arenít looking at the bigger picture, these guys can all score goals if you play a system that creates chances for them, play in a system where theyíre expected to create and score their own chances as well as hold the ball up and bring others into play wonít work. Again itís the same principles with our midfield just now.

    Our midfield is pish just now, itís absolutely dreadful but itís not the midfielders we have on our books that are the problem, itís the type of midfielder we donít have thatís causing our problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Itís not pish, do you think Scott Allan is choosing to play badly? Do you really think itís a lack of effort? Of course it isnít, no player deliberately chooses not to play well, poor form is a culmination of a number of factors, one of the main ones being played in a system that suits how they play.

    Scott Allan needs to play in a side that has the ball, heís a ball playing midfielder. He needs to have options ahead of him to create for and he needs to be playing with confidence.

    If we signed Messi and played him at centre half he probably wouldnít be very good, doesnít mean he wasnít a good player it just means heís not being played right. I know thatís an extreme example Iíve used to illustrate a point and I know itís not the same as heís a midfielder who is still being played in midfield but the same principles apply, good players arenít just good players all the time no matter what, theyíre not robots, they need to be played correctly.
    He was relieved of major defensive duties today and played in a forward role to suit his best attributes and he had a stinker. Its not his first poor performance. He has to take part of the blame along with the other players.

    Totally agree r.e. players needing to play in a system that suits. Due to the midfielders hibs have at the moment it is not unreasonable to suggest that the most competitive 11 we can put out doesn't include allan. Which is ridiculous given the position we were in this summer.

  18. #17
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Yes, I think I mentioned Mallan and Kamberi in an earlier post.

    The players arenít to blame for this position we find ourselves in, they are being asked to play a system that doesnít work and itís not bringing the best out in anyone. Even looking at the centre halfís, you can point to individual mistakes but theyíre playing in a system where they get zero protection so mistakes eventually are inevitable.

    FWIW I also had a similar argument about our strikers over the last year or so. People having a pop at McLaren, Kamberi, Shaw, McNulty and now Doidge arenít looking at the bigger picture, these guys can all score goals if you play a system that creates chances for them, play in a system where theyíre expected to create and score their own chances as well as hold the ball up and bring others into play wonít work. Again itís the same principles with our midfield just now.

    Our midfield is pish just now, itís absolutely dreadful but itís not the midfielders we have on our books that are the problem, itís the type of midfielder we donít have thatís causing our problems.
    First goal today mate you canít use the midfield as a factor for that. Itís pish poor and I entirely blame the players for that itís basic mistakes just like Whittaker showing sedorff inside rather than down the line. You can play all the formations you want but wonít eradicate that. I agree formation isnít working as we donít look to be able to score but again players need to stand up and show better than they are.

    Am not sticking up for the manager btw he carryís the can

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    The players arenít to blame for this position we find ourselves in
    Hecky is bad. But come on, the players are every much as o blame as him. Theyíre getting away with murder.

    The goals today were nothing to do with how they were being asked to play. It was just pish.
    Last edited by B.H.F.C; 14-09-2019 at 09:35 PM.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    Hecky is bad. But come on, the players are every much as big to blame as him. Theyíre getting away with murder.

    The goals today were nothing to do with how they were being asked to play. It was just pish.
    Conceding poor goals is only part of the problem.

    We never scored any either. Weíre not playing a system that has us solid at the back or has us scoring going forward.

    Do you think the players are not trying or choosing to play badly?

    The players not playing well is a consequence of bad management.

  21. #20
    In the last 3 games weíve played 3 different formations so itís not a ďsystemĒ that isnít working.

    When you have every part of the team and so many individuals under performing, you have to hold the manager responsible and make a change

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Conceding poor goals is only part of the problem.

    We never scored any either. Weíre not playing a system that has us solid at the back or has us scoring going forward.

    Do you think the players are not trying or choosing to play badly?

    The players not playing well is a consequence of bad management.
    I agree but surly if we keep conceding poor goals we are going to continue losing games thatís not the fault of the manager itís the faults of players who canít do the basics right. Maybe you could argue the manager may be impacting this as Iíve seen defenders like hanlon be a lot better but as much as I like him Iíve not seen it for quite some time now.

    Feel we are at a cross roads where not just Mcgregor and Gray will be phased out, may need to be ruthless and less sentimental if we can get better to partner Porto

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member JohnM1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    In the last 3 games weíve played 3 different formations so itís not a ďsystemĒ that isnít working.

    When you have every part of the team and so many individuals under performing, you have to hold the manager responsible and make a change


  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    I donít mean to single him out as the problem as I agree he isní solely for the mess we are in, Iím being pragmatic and if you are on the run we are you be hard to beat and try win ugly. Too soft we all know heís an attacking luxury player who can win a game in a heart beat not disputing that, my issue is we need to stay in a game before we are out of it which we donít seem to be able to do
    Somebody that can win a game in a heartbeat is not a luxury,heís a necessity.The team is chopped and changed from one game to the next with no apparent formation or style of playing.Thatís the problem.

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff SMAXXA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Somebody that can win a game in a heartbeat is not a luxury,heís a necessity.The team is chopped and changed from one game to the next with no apparent formation or style of playing.Thatís the problem.
    Itís the inability to defend and not conceded thatís the problem. Whatís he created or done since the St Mirren game? I rate him btw but think he gets it far to easy. We either go with a man short up front or packing the midfield to accommodate him. Only way possible is a 352 imo

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Conceding poor goals is only part of the problem.

    We never scored any either. Weíre not playing a system that has us solid at the back or has us scoring going forward.

    Do you think the players are not trying or choosing to play badly?

    The players not playing well is a consequence of bad management.
    Look I want Hecky gone. He canít motivate them. Itís crap.

    But of the goals we lost today, what could he have done differently?

    You talk about the players, but do you think Hecky is choosing to manage badly? Some of the players are cowards.

  27. #26
    He works with them every week.

    Some of the best football Iíve seen hibs play was under Stubbs. Our guys currently canít even do basic ball retention.

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SMAXXA View Post
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    Gets an easy ride heís been pish for weeks and when looking to grind out results where we are unbelievably at just now id personally no play him and go 442. Part of our problem is we try to accommodate him in a team thatís toiling. Wonít be popular a know but itís not working Mallan the same but less popular obviously
    My thoughts too. He started the season very well but hasn't been great the last few outings. Very similar to Mallan if you ask me. Good technically, capable of brilliance that leads to a goal but a man short when we lose the ball. Losing the ball is a problem for a player that looks to play a world cup ball every time he gets it. I think Allan is at his best on the odd occasions where he keeps it quick and simple. To be fair to him there aren't enough runs being made for him to do that and we need to get back to basics and start to put up a battle in midfield.

  29. #28
    Was poor against St Johnstone and got himself subbed, anonymous against Motherwell and by all accounts poor yesterday. Don't care how good he's been in the past he's another one who needs a rocket

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Since452 View Post
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    Was poor against St Johnstone and got himself subbed, anonymous against Motherwell and by all accounts poor yesterday. Don't care how good he's been in the past he's another one who needs a rocket
    Poor in both i agree yet he still managed to play a great through ball in both matches to Doidge and Flo respectively. Dropping Allan isnt the answer when hes one of the few who can win us a match on his own. Im convinced if we do anything this season it will come largely down to Allan and Kamberi linking up (which i think theyve shown glimpses of this season despite the poor start). We need a manager who sets us up to allow these kind of players to flourish. Not a manager who sets us up to plug the gaps he failed to recruit better in.

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Somebody that can win a game in a heartbeat is not a luxury,he’s a necessity.The team is chopped and changed from one game to the next with no apparent formation or style of playing.That’s the problem.
    His pass that gifted their GK possession and led to Killies first goal is an example of why he is part of the problem. It is great when it works but Allan plays far too many high difficulty with little reward passes giving away possession when we are expecting to keep it. The pass yesterday was a shocker and a couple of seconds later Killie score when we should still have had possession. I don't have an issue when he tries that type of ball to a runner who will be through and into a great position but yesterday's effort, if successful, wouldn't have really made much odds and indirectly led to them scoring along with poor play from Porteous and Rocky.
    Last edited by wookie70; 15-09-2019 at 10:25 AM.

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