Neandrathal BBC Pundits

[Cataplana]

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I'm playing the devil's advocate here, because I listened to the conversation too when I was driving through to the Hibs game. Whilst I agree that Michael Stewart raised some valid and important points, I don't agree that the football authorities should be implementing rules which prevent certain clubs from wearing certain colours, to me that's ludicrous. Why people wear them is not my concern, and to me it's like trying to exploit the recent ruling UEFA made on Rangers. Should we not wear green to Ibrox because it winds up their fans? If you're going to implement something like that it has to be for all clubs, not just one, and they should all be dealt with the same way.

I loathe Rangers, but they have issued a statement that agrees and accepts the punishment. The real problem is the knuckledraggers who bring their kids up to hate Catholics and use football as a forum for that hate.

I am pretty sure Dodds did raise the argument that other clubs wear orange strips. I say argument, it was more a cry for help. He spectacularly missed the point that those clubs do not have any association to the Orange Order.

The whole issue raised by Michael was that Rangers words don't match their actions. Another point that was raised was how many fans have actually been banned from Ibrox for sectarian behaviour.

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Didn't hear the 'debate' yesterday, but if its true that Ferguson claimed not to see the link between sectarianism and The Rangurz habit of releasing orange away kits he must be spectacularly stupid. Hells bells, it was practically the first piece of Ibrox hypocrisy every other fan in Scotland thought of when their board released that statement last week. How can you change a mindset you pander to at every turn to make money?

Thank **** for the likes of Michael Stewart … at least we have one guy on the inside willing to call a spade a spade.

He went as far as to say that the entire away stand at Rugby Park was signing sectarian songs, yet nothing was done about it. Least of all by Kilmarnock who should have banned Rangers after their behaviour towards Steve Clarke the last time they were in Ayrshire.

For fans to pretend that their own club doesn't have a part to play is passing the buck. However, I think the cat is out of the bag now, and further European progress by The Rangers will most likely result in more severe sanctions - something King cannot afford.

[Cataplana]

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I think that's correct, I've a close family member who's met him at an event and he came across very well, honest and engaging in trying to elicit change.

Truth is, I know a lot of West Coast guys who support Rangers, and just cannot see the way the world has changed.

[Moulin Yarns]

Listening to the game on the radio, the rangers scored and the fans give 'bouncy' a full on airing.

Now, because we know the context we would call it out, but would a match delegate?

[overdrive]

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I actually think Derek Ferguson is an alright bloke. I very much doubt he is a card carrying Orangeman, just another of those who try to deny the connection between the Old Firm and sectarianism for what it is.

That is hardly a crime, but for the BBC to continue to employ people who are so out of their depth discussing the subject has to be wrong. I don't draw the line at the loyalist half either, the likes of Owen Coyle, are just as much to blame passing it all off as a bit of banter.

His sister in law is catholic, so he’d be pretty stupid if he did come out with any bigotry.

[Is It On....]

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On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He was the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

I wonder if Harthill also have an orange strip in homage to all the Dutch players that have played for them?

[Cataplana]

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i wonder if harthill also have an orange strip in homage to all the dutch players that have played for them?

like

[660]

Is this available to listen to anywhere

[Cataplana]

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Is this available to listen to anywhere

Doesn't seem to be anything on the iPlayer yet.

[monarch]

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Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

[COLOR=#878787 !important] racism
[/COLOR]

• prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

I’ll start with a disclaimer so I’ll state that I don’t know your ethnic background or colour (apart from being green) 😀.

However as a general point surely it’s not for middle class white persons to state what should and shouldn’t be offensive to brown skinned people. To indicate otherwise is surely to exhibit traits of white supremacy.

For what it’s worth I used to think along the same lines as yourself but found out that life is a great learning process.

Anyway, back on subject, I thought Mikey Stewart did a great demolition job on the two dinosaurs. Dodds asking Stewart to “prove it” was particularly cringeworthy from a supposed professional broadcaster.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm just surprised these morons haven't be sponsored by Sunny Delight yet.

It's a blatant cash in to their majority bigot element. No sense of shame at all!

[Cataplana]

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I’ll start with a disclaimer so I’ll state that I don’t know your ethnic background or colour (apart from being green) 😀.

However as a general point surely it’s not for middle class white persons to state what should and shouldn’t be offensive to brown skinned people. To indicate otherwise is surely to exhibit traits of white supremacy.

For what it’s worth I used to think along the same lines as yourself but found out that life is a great learning process.

Anyway, back on subject, I thought Mikey Stewart did a great demolition job on the two dinosaurs. Dodds asking Stewart to “prove it” was particularly cringeworthy from a supposed professional broadcaster.

Oh boy, that was cringeworthy. Did one of them also say "it just is, I don't care if you disagree?", or some similar bollocks?

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

Time for a mass formal complaint through the BBC rebutal, sorry complaints, process before refering them to Ofcom for breaching the regulations

[Bishop Hibee]

If they wear an orange second strip in tribute to all their former Dutch players, surely they should wear a green away strip in tribute to all the players they’ve poached from Hibs?

[Crazyhorse]

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Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

The logic of his position is that those singing sectarian songs don’t realise they are sectarian therefore they are less worthy of condemnation than his generation who knew that they were celebrating bigotry but carried on doing it.
The argument is moronic.
The reality is that both this generation and his generation know/knew very well that they are engaging in sectarianism.

[Crazyhorse]

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The logic of his position is that those singing sectarian songs don’t realise they are sectarian therefore they are less worthy of condemnation than his generation who knew that they were celebrating bigotry but carried on doing it.
The argument is moronic.
The reality is that both this generation and his generation know/knew very well that they are engaging in sectarianism.

Sorry Carheenlea didn’t read your post. More or less the same point!

[mjhibby]

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Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

It is just another sign showing the horrendous drop in quality on this show. There used to be decent,reasoned discussion about Scottish football but now things like sectarianism,racism etc are swept under the carpet and of course the dons,sevco or hertz can't be criticised. It's so bad I just can't listen to it. I feel sorry for Michael Stewart dealing with these clowns. Totally biased,horrendous broadcasting.

[A Hi-Bee]

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It is just another sign showing the horrendous drop in quality on this show. There used to be decent,reasoned discussion about Scottish football but now things like sectarianism,racism etc are swept under the carpet and of course the dons,sevco or hertz can't be criticised. It's so bad I just can't listen to it. I feel sorry for Michael Stewart dealing with these clowns. Totally biased,horrendous broadcasting.

Nothing new at the glesgie beeb, really no defence for such views no matter how you spin it and lets not forget the other side of the divide they are just as bad.

[Iggy Pope]

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Ah. I'm glad there is a perfectly good reason for the club to play it.

They’ve also started playing Sloop John B for pure entertainment and listening pleasure.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Is this available to listen to anywhere

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085?i=1000447706870

Here mate - embarrassing stuff.

[Iggy Pope]

I love Michael Stewart. I’d listen to ten of him before Billy Dodds.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Listening to the game on the radio, the rangers scored and the fans give 'bouncy' a full on airing.

Now, because we know the context we would call it out, but would a match delegate?

Sorry!

How is Bouncy Bouncy sectarian?

Having a senior moment

[Iggy Pope]

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Sorry!

How is Bouncy Bouncy sectarian?

Having a senior moment

The thread explains.....maybe it doesn’t. The song is thought to emanate from a sectarian killing where the victims head was repeatedly jumped upon.

[BILLYHIBS]

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The thread explains.....maybe it doesn’t. The song is thought to emanate from a sectarian killing where the victims head was repeatedly jumped upon.

Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee



Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know

[Iggy Pope]

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Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee



Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know

They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

[BILLYHIBS]

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They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

Did not pay a lot of attention to the Hun **** tbh something about being up to their knees in fenian blood and “ We are the peepul!”

My first HIBS v Rangers game was a midweek game in 1968 and my hero Colin Stein ran oot wearing a Hun toap broke ma heart I developed a stammer and ma wee brother went cockeyed wi the stress o it aw

Thank god for Joe McBride SNR

What you say kinda makes sense though I remember they took great delight in doing the Bouncy Bouncy during the Manchester riots

[Carheenlea]

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Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee



Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know

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They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

[Iggy Pope]

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I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I’ve no idea.

[Sir David Gray]

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I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I believe he is too.

I didn't say anything since the other posts seemed so certain that he was deceased.

[Iggy Pope]

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I believe he is too.

I didn't say anything since the other posts seemed so certain that he was deceased.

Only one post had him deceased mind you. It’s not about Gerry McNee this.

[BILLYHIBS]

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I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I profoundly apologise

I was getting him confused with the late great Ian Archer

Gerry if you are looking in.....Sorry!!