Enough is Enough

[Hibbyradge]

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Incidentally I have reread my post and, while it's far from perfect, fail to see where I said he has my full backing.

Ok. Your 180° u-turn comment suggested that, but I see that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So, in fact, you've only turned 120′?

Dontcha just wish folk would stop twisting things and exaggerating on here?

[JimBHibees]

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Incidentally I have reread my post and, while it's far from perfect, fail to see where I said he has my full backing.

You didn't you said you would give him a bit more time and then see where he and the club were. Similar to myself to be honest there are obvious concerns however no way is it too late to be turned around with a couple of decent wins and performances. A negative would IMO our most obvious leaders on the park McGregoer and Gray are likely to be out for a while.

[flash]

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Ok. Your 180° u-turn comment suggested that, but I see that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So, in fact, you've only turned 120′?

Dontcha just wish folk would stop twisting things and exaggerating on here?

Ach it's the nature of the beast but i get your point. i actually noticed the contradiction you pointed out when i read my own post but couldn't be ersed doing anything about it.

[SMAXXA]

He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

[The Leith Dutch]

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He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

Genuine question (coming from someone who thinks we should move him on) - do you see something in
him as a bloke or in what he's doing or saying that makes you think he can turn things around performance
wise? If so, I'm curious what it is as ultimately it's the root of my issues with him that I just don't see anything.

For what it's worth, he'd start to win me back if we started to look like an organised, disciplined team even if
the results didn't immediately follow. I just worry he's going to persist in doing the same things he's doing now
in the mistaken belief things will magically improve with hard work from the players and more listening.

[SMAXXA]

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Genuine question (coming from someone who thinks we should move him on) - do you see something in
him as a bloke or in what he's doing or saying that makes you think he can turn things around performance
wise? If so, I'm curious what it is as ultimately it's the root of my issues with him that I just don't see anything.

For what it's worth, he'd start to win me back if we started to look like an organised, disciplined team even if
the results didn't immediately follow. I just worry he's going to persist in doing the same things he's doing now
in the mistaken belief things will magically improve with hard work from the players and more listening.

Maybe it’s blind faith mate or a part of me doesn’t want another rebuild say someone else comes in and has to start from scratch wanting his own players in. I also feel like it’s too early, in the grand scheme of things he’s not had that long to work with his full squad and I feel he deserves that opportunity.

In terms of the performance and organisation side of things I don’t see is as bad as some make us out to be. We have looked decent in spells but also I’d agree we looked poor at times in other regards. Speaking to a couple of the players I know they are fully behind him and that’s a position I’d rather us be in as something to build on.

I agree with a lot of the criticism of certain points made and I’m certainly not burying my head in the sand or a happy clapper as folk say. Managers need time and in the grand scheme of things I don’t feel he’s had enough.

I’ve said all along give it 10 games in to the season and if results are poor and performances the same id have little complaints if we parted company.

[Smartie]

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He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

I think we're a defensive midfielder away from having a good side.

I remember Stubbs having a slow start, and he stumbled upon the diamond formation that seemed to suit our players better.

PH does things that frustrate me but I don't think we're far away from being on the right track.

Last season though, I don't think Lennon was far away but ended up leaving us in 8th. Getting the midfield nearly right = getting the midfield wrong, and that can be costly.

I've never been one for sacking managers, especially when they're not long in the door.

I'd sooner see the back of some highly rated players who I just can't see fitting into our side.

[MrSmith]

Not backing but not sacking neither - I'm just MEH!

[The Leith Dutch]

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Maybe it’s blind faith mate or a part of me doesn’t want another rebuild say someone else comes in and has to start from scratch wanting his own players in. I also feel like it’s too early, in the grand scheme of things he’s not had that long to work with his full squad and I feel he deserves that opportunity.

In terms of the performance and organisation side of things I don’t see is as bad as some make us out to be. We have looked decent in spells but also I’d agree we looked poor at times in other regards. Speaking to a couple of the players I know they are fully behind him and that’s a position I’d rather us be in as something to build on.

I agree with a lot of the criticism of certain points made and I’m certainly not burying my head in the sand or a happy clapper as folk say. Managers need time and in the grand scheme of things I don’t feel he’s had enough.

I’ve said all along give it 10 games in to the season and if results are poor and performances the same id have little complaints if we parted company.

Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

[Speedway]

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Not backing but not sacking neither - I'm just MEH!

And that's a much bigger problem for the club.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I want him out. Turning on the support will only end up one way.

[hibeerealist]

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Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

But has he got the players onside LD, wonder if SA is onside with him?

I am not so sure, the players look confused and look to the bench quite a lot. Where is the high press he promised?

We do not look like a side confident in what we are doing.

[Peevemor]

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I want him out. Turning on the support will only end up one way.

He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

[Smartie]

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He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

When you get to a position where every comment he makes is being twisted into an attack on him it can be a very difficult situation to turn around.

I don't think it's unsalvageable yet, but there are some worrying signs.

[allezsauzee]

So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads

[Peevemor]

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When you get to a position where every comment he makes is being twisted into an attack on him it can be a very difficult situation to turn around.

I don't think it's unsalvageable yet, but there are some worrying signs.

I agree, but I think we could make more effort on here to calm the hysteria that's breaking out. It's seems to have become fact that he criticised the fans on Saturday - he didn't. He said that he had his reasons for subbing Allan and didn't realise there was a law against doing so. He also said that the players, many playing in the top tier for the first time, have to learn to cope with higher expectations from the supporters.

[SMAXXA]

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So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads

👏👏👏 spot on imo

[jeffers]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

[Hibs4185]

I’m on the fence whether he should go or be given more time but I don’t think we can afford to let this drag on until Xmas. The feel good factor around the club is disappearing at an alarming rate and it will be hard to get it back. The euphoria of the Scottish cup won’t ever be repeated even if we win it this year, and if we want to grow as a club, for me it means we have to be decisive, and give him a few games but no more.

[Victor]

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C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

[Peevemor]

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C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans.

Or maybe it was his response to the support criticising him?

His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

Possibly, but it's not unusual for Allan to be subbed 20 minutes from time.

[SMAXXA]

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I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

I’d agree with this but I also see the frustrating side of it you only need to look at the through ball he played for Doidge from central and he really should have scored and game over, taking him off we lost that. Albeit we are defending a lead and he’s tiring and not great defensively so I really don’t get the big issue taking him off to try manage the game with the pace of Horgan and Middleton on the counter. Been made too much an issue the Allan sub for me and fans need to realise we are more than just SA as talented as he is.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

He said in one article the anxiousness emanating from the stands transferred to the players. He also made a comment about fans "downing tools" last season. Two sweeping remarks regards the support doesn't sit well with me

[jeffers]

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I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

Rightly or wrongly it doesn’t work that way. When a manager starts having a go at the fans it rarely ends well.

Allan wasn’t great on Saturday, no argument, but still offered more in open play than Mallan did. I’ve said this a few times now, but he played him out of position against St Mirren as well and it was only once he moved into a central position he was able to influence the game as he can. You’d have hoped Heckingbottom would have learned from that, clearly he didn’t.

[B.H.F.C]

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I’d agree with this but I also see the frustrating side of it you only need to look at the through ball he played for Doidge from central and he really should have scored and game over, taking him off we lost that. Albeit we are defending a lead and he’s tiring and not great defensively so I really don’t get the big issue taking him off to try manage the game with the pace of Horgan and Middleton on the counter. Been made too much an issue the Allan sub for me and fans need to realise we are more than just SA as talented as he is.

Allan being subbed wasn’t the big issue. Allan has always been subbed pretty regularly over his spells here. Had he been playing where he should have been and been ineffective, it wouldn’t have got that type of reaction. The fact everybody was utterly baffled about him being stuck on the right wing for an hour before being hooked was what led to the reaction.

[SMAXXA]

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Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

No worries it’s refreshing to have a discussion or exchange if views without being shot down wether your in agreement or not, debate the merits.

[Hibbyradge]

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So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads

"Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher"

Just as a matter of interest, in hindsight, do you think we should have changed any of those managers earlier than we did, or do you think we should have given them even more time?

[FilipinoHibs]

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C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

Yup he could just explained the rationale for subbing Scott without the sarcastic comment. Seems a bit immature- thinking of the knock his teeth out comment. Would also have helped if said playing Scott wide did not work

[21.05.2016]

I'm yet to be convinced that he's the right man tbh, his signings bar a couple have done little to impress and the performances even against lower league oppositions have been far from good enough.

Early days so willing to give him a chance but i do worry atm. There just seems to be a bit of bad feeling around the club atm.

I felt his "i didn't know there was a law against subbing Scott Allan" comment was a bit cheeky. Nobody is saying Allan or anyone for that matter is immune from getting taken off but dont play players out of position then when it doesnt work take them off. Rectify the error, put him back into his natural position and give us the best chance to kill off the game.

[Bobby's Cinema]

The style mentality and system is a big concern for me.

I don't think the manager is giving the group of players the best chance to succeed the way he is setting us up.

That said, he has done enough results wise to get more of a chance than some are prepared to give him imo.

He is clearly still experimenting as seen by changing to 2 up top, moving Allan around all over the place.

Still hopeful he is picking things up with each game and there will be clear signs we are learning from mistakes over the next 6-8weeks.