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  1. #91
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    Sorry, can't answer as it's not about IDS. You need to stop changing the subject and stay on topic. You will get a telling off otherwise.

    P.S. there was a UK wide referendum, the result was Leave. That's the primary reason for us leaving the EU. The will of the people and all that.

    A no deal Brexit is a game changer though, hell I might even be out on the streets campaigning with R7 answering the currency question for him.
    Fair and straight answer, thanks.


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  3. #92
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    When the old age pension was introduced, the pensioner was expected to live another five years.

    Likewise with most people dieing by age 50, few would actually survive to claim it.

    Old age pensions in their current format are not sustainable.
    Yes they are, it's a political choice whether we fund them properly or not. National Insurance contributions pay for the state pension; abolish the cap on NI contributions and fund pensions correctly. What's more, the fact that older people tend to vote more often and disproportionately vote Tory means the government needs to tread carefully when making changes to pensions. The pension is given protections other benefits are not because of this, though hasn't the 'triple lock' been watered down to a 'double lock'?
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  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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  5. #94
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    It's not the pension that I think is unsustainable, more the fact that people are living as long as they are whilst enjoying "free" health care.

    There is enough money to go round, for all there are some pensioners freezing and in poverty there are a great many who are cavorting around having the life of Reilly. It's actually the group of people who are often marketed at for having the largest disposable income these days.

    The generation we currently have in old age/ approaching old age have, over a lifetime, IN GENERAL taken out quite a bit more than they have put in.

    Going forward we need to accept that we're all going to have to put a bit more in and take a little bit less out. It doesn't need to be anything overly drastic if we all accept this fact.

    Pension age is worthy of discussion. Pension arrangements whilst working should also figure. Funding of the NHS (and what parts of it) and other public services should be on the table.

    The public need to be prepared to swallow a few home truths, make a few sacrifices and take a bit of responsibility. If the politicians could also come to the table with a certain amount of honesty and candour, we could hopefully come up with a solution a bit better than more debt and kicking the can down the road or hoping that someone else will just pay for everything.

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    It's not the pension that I think is unsustainable, more the fact that people are living as long as they are whilst enjoying "free" health care.

    There is enough money to go round, for all there are some pensioners freezing and in poverty there are a great many who are cavorting around having the life of Reilly. It's actually the group of people who are often marketed at for having the largest disposable income these days.

    The generation we currently have in old age/ approaching old age have, over a lifetime, IN GENERAL taken out quite a bit more than they have put in.

    Going forward we need to accept that we're all going to have to put a bit more in and take a little bit less out. It doesn't need to be anything overly drastic if we all accept this fact.

    Pension age is worthy of discussion. Pension arrangements whilst working should also figure. Funding of the NHS (and what parts of it) and other public services should be on the table.

    The public need to be prepared to swallow a few home truths, make a few sacrifices and take a bit of responsibility. If the politicians could also come to the table with a certain amount of honesty and candour, we could hopefully come up with a solution a bit better than more debt and kicking the can down the road or hoping that someone else will just pay for everything.
    Yes there is, it's a matter of using the tax system properly (as already mentioned abolish the NI cap) and close loopholes, then share the money more equally. We are the fifth richest country in the world in the twenty-first century, yet some are claiming we cant afford social services. When the systems were created by the Attlee government, the country was completely bankrupt after six years of war, yet they managed to introduce an NHS and a welfare state, plus build two million council homes.

    It's all ideological: we could find 180 billion overnight to save the criminality of the banks, yet we can't afford an NHS and state pensions? Nonsense. Those who say there isn't enough money actually mean they don't want to pay to fund the system properly, which is a different argument. That's the honest discussion you speak of. Claiming there isn't enough money is actually a dishonest argument; the honest approach is question whether we as a society are willing to pay for pensions, the NHS and public services. The candour we need to face is the fact income tax is far too low in this country compared to those European nations such as France, Germany and the Scandinavian nations who have better public services, higher benefits and stronger welfare than we do. We need to abolish the NI contributions ceiling first of all. It's about choices as to the kind of society we want to live in. The money is there; the question is how we distribute it. Do we want the European model or do we want to go ever further down the American route? Give me Denmark every time!

    I agree with you that we need home truths; we can't have our cake and eat it. If we want good pensions and a thriving NHS we have to be prepared to pay for them. I propose a more progressive taxation system to make that happen. That's an honest approach.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 22-08-2019 at 10:41 PM.
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