Your gut feeling on Hecky

[G B Young]

Thoughts?

[007]

I'll pick option 5, it is too early to be talking about sacking the manager and we certainly don't need another poll about it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What a smashing idea fan ownership would have been

[G B Young]

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I'll pick option 5, it is too early to be talking about sacking the manager and we certainly don't need another poll about it.

I agree, which is why that's not one of the options.

My own hope is that Leeann has proved she has an eye for a decent manager (compared to the series of Petrie appointments pre-Stubbs) and that Hecky will prove his worth. If we have to suffer a bit for that to happen then so be it, disappointing as that would be after a successful few years.

[#2 Double Tap]

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I agree, which is why that's not one of the options.

My own hope is that Leeann has proved she has an eye for a decent manager (compared to the series of Petrie appointments pre-Stubbs) and that Hecky will prove his worth. If we have to suffer a bit for that to happen then so be it, disappointing as that would be after a successful few years.

could argue that she doesnt just as easily, stubbs failed to win promotion and without that cup win woulda been deemed a bad signing and lennon woulda been an easy pick, so the dury is still out for me.

[Northernhibee]

What a brilliant thread that adds so much to the tens of others of threads.

[green with envy]

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Thoughts?

After all the posts since 4.45pm yesterday evening you really needed to ask this?

[G B Young]

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could argue that she doesnt just as easily, stubbs failed to win promotion and without that cup win woulda been deemed a bad signing and lennon woulda been an easy pick, so the dury is still out for me.

Stubbsy had us on course for a mind-boggling cup double plus promotion. To emerge at the end of that season with 'only' the Scottish Cup (after 114 years of trying) was no minor achievement. Good chance we'd have got promoted that season if we hadn't been stretched on so many fronts.

Lennon was a coup and just what we needed to help us kick on to promotion and subsequently European football.

Any Hibs fan who doesn't acknowledge we've enjoyed five excellent years since Leeann came in hasn't been watching the club very long.

[G B Young]

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What a brilliant thread that adds so much to the tens of others of threads.

I couldn't be bothered reading through them all so thought a thread which provides an at-a-glance overview of what everyone's thinking might be worth sticking up.

[flash]

Another poll. Excellent.

[#2 Double Tap]

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Stubbsy had us on course for a mind-boggling cup double plus promotion. To emerge at the end of that season with 'only' the Scottish Cup (after 114 years of trying) was no minor achievement. Good chance we'd have got promoted that season if we hadn't been stretched on so many fronts.

Lennon was a coup and just what we needed to help us kick on to promotion and subsequently European football.

Any Hibs fan who doesn't acknowledge we've enjoyed five excellent years since Leeann came in hasn't been watching the club very long.

they have been great and i dont mean to play down what stubbs achieved, but she is not some magical messiah and has made a few bad moves as well, like no sponsor this season.

[Steve20]

Didn’t want him appointed and would prefer he wasn’t our manager now. He’s simply not good enough.

[Wilson]

When he first came in I thought he said the right things and the results were there so I was supportive.

The results aren't good enough and worryingly his words seem to be waffle. We're a work in progress and will be for a long time? We finished in the top 6 twice and were outperforming hearts. For me we weren't as far away from where I expect to be as Heck seems to be taking us.

We get the usual cracks about fan ownership but for me the problem isn't the fans that would pull the trigger on bad results. It's the ones that don't seem to have a limit to how bad they'll let things get!

Under Lennon we set the standard of how this hibs team should compete. When he couldn't keep that standard even he wasn't safe. The match against Stirling fell short of the standard. The lack of fight against Rangers fell short. Somebody needs to know where the line is on what is acceptable for one of the top sides in Scotland and make sure there is some accountability. Someone is also going to have to be held to account for these signings.

If no signing is too bad and no performance too embarrassing then what are we aiming for?

[wookie70]

I went for the second option but I'm a mile away from making my mind up. His players have played two league games and that is with Lewis, Porteous and mostly SDG and James injured. Not many teams could cope with 4 fullbacks injured especially when their wide midfielders that aren't injured(Boyle) are exclusively attacking players.

I didn't like Lennon and didn't think his pedigree said one thing or the other. He got plenty of time struggling with a Cup Winning team who were way ahead both playing wise and financially of the opposition. He deserved that time because the club was new to him and so were the players. He wasn't under any significant pressure from fans despite not romping away with the league and playing a fairly industrial brand of football. Stubbs was similar. He got time and respect even though he didn't succeed in the league as there were signs he was a decent manager. Signs are so is Heck. Even if most of his signings are flops that would put him in the same ball park as Lennon who had a similar record and the luxury of most of the Cup Winning Team for most of his tenure.

Heck is averaging 1.67 points per Top League Game. He has managed 15 games and 8 of those were against top 6 sides. Lennon averaged 1.6 points a game in the top league and even in the season he did really well he only averaged 1.76. Why are so many rushing in to attack Heck. I get the anger over the The Rangers game but it was very evident last year and before a ball was even kicked this year.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Not convinced by signings but give him time.

We can't be sacking a manager two league games into the season. The board have appointed Hecky and must now give him a chance. I have my doubts whether his tenure will end well, but he must be allowed to show what he can do. He started well when he arrived, so let's hope we can re-discover that form. If not, he will pay the price.

[Hi Heid Yin]

I was underwhelmed by Heckingbottom's appointment and remain so.

He enjoyed the "new manager buzz" and steered us to some decent results through gritty and unspectacular performances, which secured a top 6 placing, but then failed to inspire us to any victories as the season petered-out, meekly.
His summer signings have also failed to inspire and the question remains: "Are any of his lower league signings up to the challenges of the SPL?"

Like others, I want to give him time to get it right, but the signs at this stage are ominous.

[wookie70]

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When he first came in I thought he said the right things and the results were there so I was supportive.

The results aren't good enough and worryingly his words seem to be waffle. We're a work in progress and will be for a long time? We finished in the top 6 twice and were outperforming hearts. For me we weren't as far away from where I expect to be as Heck seems to be taking us.

We get the usual cracks about fan ownership but for me the problem isn't the fans that would pull the trigger on bad results. It's the ones that don't seem to have a limit to how bad they'll let things get!

Under Lennon we set the standard of how this hibs team should compete. When he couldn't keep that standard even he wasn't safe. The match against Stirling fell short of the standard. The lack of fight against Rangers fell short. Somebody needs to know where the line is on what is acceptable for one of the top sides in Scotland and make sure there is some accountability. Someone is also going to have to be held to account for these signings.

If no signing is too bad and no performance too embarrassing then what are we aiming for?

Presumably you felt the same as that with Lennon who had a great start in the Championship (Not sure if he was there for the first few games but I'll give him credit) before failing to beat Raith, Dundee Utd(H), QOS and losing to Ayr(H) in a dismal 4 game run where we were honking. He had a similar 4 game run not that long after when we were nowhere near out of sight in the league. Every team has poor performances and every team signs duds. Lennon and Stubbs had their fair share but got treated with respect for a good while into their Hibs careers. Lennons signings imo were very poor on the whole with most not coming close to replacing Stubb's team.

I'm not shy in asking for a manager to leave but even though I didn't like Lennon and he presided over a truly awful few months before he left admin dressing room and training camp issues I still would have given him until the end of the season. That was with him being very unprofessional on a number of occessions. Why doesn't Heck get the same crack of the whip.

[Pretty Boy]

Still willing to give him time but we need to see an instant reaction to yesterday.

There just seems a bit of malaise around Hibs at the moment and the manager is a part of the reason for that imo. He just doesn't excite me in anything he says, that would be no issue if we were performing brilliantly but we aren't. Yesterday was the 1st time in years I've gone to Ibrox expecting to lose; the manner of the defeat angered me more than the loss itself.

Maybe I'm just a bit old school but I don't think you can reduce football to stats, sideshows, video clips and heat maps. Of course they all play a part in a coherent football structure but sometimes a bit gut instinct and a boot up the erse goes a long way. I don't see that fire in the manager or a lot of the players at the moment.

[Smartie]

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Stubbsy had us on course for a mind-boggling cup double plus promotion. To emerge at the end of that season with 'only' the Scottish Cup (after 114 years of trying) was no minor achievement. Good chance we'd have got promoted that season if we hadn't been stretched on so many fronts.

Lennon was a coup and just what we needed to help us kick on to promotion and subsequently European football.

Any Hibs fan who doesn't acknowledge we've enjoyed five excellent years since Leeann came in hasn't been watching the club very long.

Some interesting points in there.

Now the dust has well and truly settled on the Stubbs era it is quite an interesting time to look back at. It's funny how some people still don't view his time with us as a success due to his league "failures" but one question sticks out for me -

What on Earth happened during Stubbs time at the club - all whilst we were in the Championship - that saw us sign Gray, Fontaine, McGregor, McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Allan, Boyle, Malonga and Stokes? These players have made an immense contribution to our club and imo Fenlon, Butcher, Calderwood or Heckingbottom would have been a success with these players.

[Ronniekirk]

I am nervous but next two games should be winnable and hopefully a couple of new players in and some injured ones back
That should help


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[Pretty Boy]

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Some interesting points in there.

Now the dust has well and truly settled on the Stubbs era it is quite an interesting time to look back at. It's funny how some people still don't view his time with us as a success due to his league "failures" but one question sticks out for me -

What on Earth happened during Stubbs time at the club - all whilst we were in the Championship - that saw us sign Gray, Fontaine, McGregor, McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Allan, Boyle, Malonga and Stokes? These players have made an immense contribution to our club and imo Fenlon, Butcher, Calderwood or Heckingbottom would have been a success with these players.

Did the manager of the time fully trust the recruitment process in a way that those who have come after didn't/don't?

[wookie70]

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Did the manager of the time fully trust the recruitment process in a way that those who have come after didn't/don't?

I'm interested in that too. Stubbs did sign some that didn't work out but the quality of signing was remarkable both in terms of how good they were, how many there were that were that good and that he was trying to attract them into a Championship side. It all went wrong with Lennon where most of his signings failed to make a mark although he did brilliantly with Keepers(If Stubbs had cracked that nut he would have been promoted second time round imo) and a few others most noteably Efe. The vast majority were poor signings and never really contributed to any great extent. I always got the feeling with Lennon he was signing players he wanted and we moved away from the successful model under Stubbs.

Heck talks like we have moved back to the plan and the players are a decent age and could attract a fee if successful. They all appear to be good solid professionals but they do seem to lack the drive of a McGinn, Fyvie or Barclay type among others. Eeven Fontaine etc had that spark about tem. What is really perplexing is it is the type of player we are crying out for and that has been the case since SJM and Dylan left.

Signings make managers and for all I like Heck and hope he goes on to do great things the big issue for me is that the players he has brought in don't play in the style he is telling us he wants to play. Every signing for me lacks energy and drive and I hope that is just because they are new to Scotland and are settling in or in the case of Vela need games. Nothing wrong with results for Heck if we look at his full run but teh signings could be what makes his job difficult along with a very unsupportive fanbase.

[JXM73]

Clueless and as slow as our play, but he's the boss and now up to him to get a response from the players starting on saturday... show us the high tempo attacking football he promised

[Borderhibbie76]

Am very unsure if him now after the last few weeks but he must be given time. He did well with a limited squad after he inherited the Lennon mess last Winter and for that he deserves our trust...for now.

However- after yesterday's debacle patience is wearing thin with the bulk of the support and we now need to see an instant improvement in the team and the performances starting on Sat.

If we dont min our next 2 matches...he will be under serious pressure that's for sure.

And if it's TRUE the Budget is spent...questions also need asked of our Board considering we were meant to be after McNulty and Omeonga?? Where is the cash gone that was set aside for them??

We need at least 2 more signings before the end of the month...not including Middleton (if hes actually still coming).

Jury is out Hecky and it's over to you

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[Jones28]

When he first came in I liked the way he steadied the ship, got us settled and organised and got some good results. I was disappointed with the post-split fixtures - 4L and 1D I think? - but he also got wins at Tynecastle and in Perth with are few and far between.

His signings - with the exception of Jackson who I think is a decent addition (James to a lesser extent but the signs were positive before he got injured) have been so disappointing though. They could be his undoing.

I actually would have been happier to see us bring in Appleton at the time, I didn’t have the same gut feeling about PH for some reason.

[Leith Green]

I posted on the members board that having calmed down somewhat from the embarrassment of yesterday’s performance and negative setup , i give him the chance to prove he has learned from what is a steep learning curve. If the approach in the near future is the same then he is done as far as im concerned. I can take a defeat on the chin , i can even take us getting a doing from a good side if we have at least attempted to approach the game looking to play football and setting up with a game plan to win the match. It really is time for Heckingbottom to change his approach going into the bigger games and to get us playing with a decent style and tempo.

[Sir David Gray]

I was quite confident of having a good season after our form last season when he was appointed, despite the results tailing off at the end of the season.

The alarm bells started ringing for me when I heard the names of our new signings. It's not fair to dismiss players before they've kicked a ball but I was very underwhelmed by our recruitment in the summer and I've seen nothing so far to make me change my mind on that.

I'm not sure that any of our new signings (Allan apart) are an improvement to our existing squad and a couple of them appear to be considerably worse which is never good.

I'm willing to give him a chance but I'm started to have considerable doubts, even before yesterday's shambles.

[Leith Green]

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I was quite confident of having a good season after our form last season when he was appointed, despite the results tailing off at the end of the season.

The alarm bells started ringing for me when I heard the names of our new signings. It's not fair to dismiss players before they've kicked a ball but I was very underwhelmed by our recruitment in the summer and I've seen nothing so far to make me change my mind on that.

I'm not sure that any of our new signings (Allan apart) are an improvement to our existing squad and a couple of them appear to be considerably worse which is never good.

I'm willing to give him a chance but I'm started to have considerable doubts, even before yesterday's shambles.

The signings he has made just dont seem capable of playing the style of football he said he wants to play. That sends alarm bells ringing for me.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Prepared to write yesterday off as a bad (disastrous) day at the office.

Need a reaction next game.

[Hibbyradge]

I was disappointed at the time that we didn't get Appleton.

Probably still am, but that boat has sailed.