Ron Gordon

[#2 Double Tap]

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Good luck with that, I’ve just won the euromillions, I’ll be on a desert island getting peace away from you losers.

Rewind 10 years though, I wonder if Ajax fans with they had spent a few million on buying someone like that Celtic left back that just cost £3m and looks utter dug ***** or invested properly in their infrastructure to produce the players like they are now.

That’s probably a bad example as Ajax have always bored us with producing player after player , it was the first club I could think of to illustrate my point though.

haha, just you remember there is Hibees everywhere!

[bingo70]

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When does the team become the focal point, the main reason we support the club?

I think it is and always has been.

How you go about getting the best team is what is maybe up for debate. How much higher is Aberdeen’s turnover than ours? Think it was maybe £3 or £4m so we’d need to spend that much to compete with Aberdeen and hope to get 3rd or 4th. That’s not ambition, it’s daft and its not spending the money wisely.

Getting and producing the best young players is the way forward IMO. Did we not recently lose that Josh McPake to rangers who is not being linked to Roma? Sure there was another top young player we lost to Celtic around the same time.

This infrastructure is for the benefit of the club and the team, nobody else, it’s not a stand, helipad or somewhere for Ron to go on his holidays. This should have a direct and long lasting positive impact on the first team.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I think it is and always has been.

How you go about getting the best team is what is maybe up for debate. How much higher is Aberdeen’s turnover than ours? Think it was maybe £3 or £4m so we’d need to spend that much to compete with Aberdeen and hope to get 3rd or 4th. That’s not ambition, it’s daft and its not spending the money wisely.

Getting and producing the best young players is the way forward IMO. Did we not recently lose that Josh McPake to rangers who is not being linked to Roma? Sure there was another top young player we lost to Celtic around the same time.

This infrastructure is for the benefit of the club and the team, nobody else, it’s not a stand, helipad or somewhere for Ron to go on his holidays. This should have a direct and long lasting positive impact on the first team.

What is the point in having the best youth policy if as you said, they are picked off for sweeties?

[bingo70]

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What is the point in having the best youth policy if as you said, they are picked off for sweeties?

So we could afford to keep them and offer them the best facilities in the land.

If we could have offered him the same financial package as Rangers with better facilities and a better chance of breaking through he might have stayed.

We can’t compete with them financially at first team level but I’d hope we could at youth level.

[Steve-O]

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This. Rangers and Celtic aren’t our competition. They’re only in a race with each other, our competition is the other ten

Unhelpful attitude which I hope nobody at our club has. Whether or not their budgets are superior, they’re our competition, along with the other 9.

[blackpoolhibs]

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So we could afford to keep them and offer them the best facilities in the land.

If we could have offered him the same financial package as Rangers with better facilities and a better chance of breaking through he might have stayed.

We can’t compete with them financially at first team level but I’d hope we could at youth level.

That makes no sense to me, their football budget is bigger than ours, and that should trickle down to the youth team?

[bingo70]

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That makes no sense to me, their football budget is bigger than ours, and that should trickle down to the youth team?

Depends how they prioritise their budget presumably.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Depends how they prioritise their budget presumably.

They pay more now, why wouldn't they in the future?

[bingo70]

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They pay more now, why wouldn't they in the future?

Because we’re spending more money focusing on that area of the club.

I’m maybe getting ahead of myself and missed out a step in my argument but to me the business model has to be have the best youth set up in the country, bring through the best young players, sell them and then reinvest that in the whole club, not just the first team.

Without the best facilities in the country we won’t attract the best young players. Now the rangers are back properly no team will be finishing 2nd any time soon, *****ing millions to compete for 3rd for a season is stupid IMO. Much more sensible trying to grow the whole club from the bottom up, as boring as it is short term.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Because we’re spending more money focusing on that area of the club.

I’m maybe getting ahead of myself and missed out a step in my argument but to me the business model has to be have the best youth set up in the country, bring through the best young players, sell them and then reinvest that in the whole club, not just the first team.

Without the best facilities in the country we won’t attract the best young players. Now the rangers are back properly no team will be finishing 2nd any time soon, *****ing millions to compete for 3rd for a season is stupid IMO. Much more sensible trying to grow the whole club from the bottom up, as boring as it is short term.

I disagree, the others will spend on their youth set up accordingly, and we will fall in line with the spending as usual.

Just another box ticking exercise in my opinion.

[jacomo]

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I disagree, the others will spend on their youth set up accordingly, and we will fall in line with the spending as usual.

Just another box ticking exercise in my opinion.

It’s all about finding the right balance isn’t it? We haven’t always got that right as a club, but we now have an infrastructure that is the envy of many and enabled us to put a good team together.

It’s also enabled us to spend more money this summer - although the jury is out on how well we have spent it.

[blackpoolhibs]

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It’s all about finding the right balance isn’t it? We haven’t always got that right as a club, but we now have an infrastructure that is the envy of many and enabled us to put a good team together.

It’s also enabled us to spend more money this summer - although the jury is out on how well we have spent it.

Yip it is a balancing act, but we cant suddenly start paying our youth players daft money in the hope they will make it to the first team.

And the ones like those cherry picked by the old firm will continue to go there for this reason if they are wanted badly enough.

[jeffers]

Even if we had the best facilities in the country how many players do we realistically expect to bring into the first team and by that I mean top players who have decent sell on value ? Porteous aside I'm struggling to think of any others we've brought in since East Mains was built ? How is it going to improve dramatically by spending £3-4M on an indoor facility ? Lets not forget the golden generation came through without a state of the art training complex.

As a country we produce less top players than we did before, look at the top English sides to see how few Scots are in them, whereas in the 70s and 80s there were dozens. Are Hibs going to buck that trend because we have invested in our infrastructure.

I'm with blackpoolhibs on this one, I've been there and done it with infrastructure over the team on the park.

[CapitalGreen]

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Lets not forget the golden generation came through without a state of the art training complex.

I’ve seen this point made a lot but it fails to recognise that all of our competitors didn’t have state of the art training complexes at the time either. Do you think we would have attracted and retained the golden generation while training on dogs!te covered council pitches if Hearts, Celtic etc had their current academies?

Also, an academy doesn’t need to be producing players with big sell on potential to be a success, it only needs to produce players good enough for the first team squad. Every player produced for the first team squad saves the club on transfer and signing on fees to fill that spot, not to mention a youth products wages will generally be lower than those of a player brought into the club.

Take Stevenson for example, he has been in the squad for 14 years. Given signings maybe have an average 2-3 years timespan at the club, without Lewis we would have probably signed another 5-7 players over that period. Add up the cumulative amount of all the signing on fees we avoided (plus any potential transfer fees) and it will be a significant saving.

[jeffers]

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I’ve seen this point made a lot but it fails to recognise that all of our competitors didn’t have state of the art training complexes at the time either. Do you think we would have attracted and retained the golden generation while training on dogs!te covered council pitches if Hearts, Celtic etc had their current academies?

Also, an academy doesn’t need to be producing players with big sell on potential to be a success, it only needs to produce players good enough for the first team squad. Every player produced for the first team squad saves the club on transfer and signing on fees to fill that spot, not to mention a youth products wages will generally be lower than those of a player brought into the club.

Take Stevenson for example, he has been in the squad for 14 years. Given signings maybe have an average 2-3 years timespan at the club, without Lewis we would have probably signed another 5-7 players over that period. Add up the cumulative amount of all the signing on fees we avoided (plus any potential transfer fees) and it will be a significant saving.

All fair points but I'd hope we'd see more than squad fillers from state of the art training facilities, ultimately selling on players we have developed and promising youngsters we have signed is how we will make money, which in turn allows us to reinvest in the playing squad, hopefully improving its overall standard.

The fact is we already have state of the art training facilities, how much better are players going to get because we have added a £3-4M indoor facility ?

[CapitalGreen]

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All fair points but I'd hope we'd see more than squad fillers from state of the art training facilities, ultimately selling on players we have developed and promising youngsters we have signed is how we will make money, which in turn allows us to reinvest in the playing squad, hopefully improving its overall standard.

The fact is we already have state of the art training facilities, how much better are players going to get because we have added a £3-4M indoor facility ?

I’ve no idea how much better it will make players (if it will at all) and personally I think it is a nonsense that it is a requirement. However the level of your academy accreditation determines the amount of compensation you receive if an academy players joins another club. At present, we are on the same level as Hearts, Celtic and Rangers (Elite level) and therefore we very rarely see players being poached by them. Signing a player from another teams academy is a big gamble as you have no idea how their development will progress as they grow older. The compensation levels for Elite academy players typically prevents poaching as it makes taking a gamble on the potential of another Elite teams academy player not worthwhile.

However, for an Elite academy to take a player from a non-Elite academy the compensation due is much less. If we were to lose our Elite academy status, taking a gamble on poaching our youth players would suddenly become worthwhile to the like of Hearts, Rangers and Celtic because the compensation due to us would be a pittance. Without our Elite status, we would probably be relying on blind loyalty or geography to keep players like Porteous within our academy through to the first team.

On the flip side to this, I know for a fact Hibs are actively scouting the academies below Elite level to improve the standard of player within our academy as we can poach these player for small compensation fees. This has seen us bring in Paddy Martin and Jack Hodge (St J) and the young winger from Queens Park in recent times.

[jeffers]

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I’ve no idea how much better it will make players (if it will at all) and personally I think it is a nonsense that it is a requirement. However the level of your academy accreditation determines the amount of compensation you receive if an academy players joins another club. At present, we are on the same level as Hearts, Celtic and Rangers (Elite level) and therefore we very rarely see players being poached by them. Signing a player from another teams academy is a big gamble as you have no idea how their development will progress as they grow older. The compensation levels for Elite academy players typically prevents poaching as it makes taking a gamble on the potential of another Elite teams academy player not worthwhile.

However, for an Elite academy to take a player from a non-Elite academy the compensation due is much less. If we were to lose our Elite academy status, taking a gamble on poaching our youth players would suddenly become worthwhile to the like of Hearts, Rangers and Celtic because the compensation due to us would be a pittance. Without our Elite status, we would probably be relying on blind loyalty or geography to keep players like Porteous within our academy through to the first team.

On the flip side to this, I know for a fact Hibs are actively scouting the academies below Elite level to improve the standard of player within our academy as we can poach these player for small compensation fees. This has seen us bring in Paddy Martin and Jack Hodge (St J) and the young winger from Queens Park in recent times.

Cheers for that I had heard bits of it before but never as much detail as you have provided. From your post maintaining Elite status sounds worthwhile, but does it require a £3-4M indoor pitch or would the figure I originally saw quoted of £1M not suffice ? It's annoying to think Hearts can maintain their status simply by renting Oriam whereas we need to spend (potentially) millions for us to do so.

The more I think about it it's actually a pretty ****ty state of affairs to think the top sides, Aberdeen excluded, can plunder the academies of the other clubs simply because (and I'm assuming down to cost) they cannot attain Elite status.

[greenlex]

Anyone who has been to EM on a wet and windy day (and let’s face it we have a few) will know a full size indoor pitch is essential and will benefit greatly the first team even more than it will benefit elite status or project brave. It’s a must imo.

[Brightside]

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When does the team become the focal point, the main reason we support the club?

Just after we invest in the womens team.

[sean04]

I'm all for the youth system and developing our own then selling for profit. It's a good business model. My concern is that we don't produce enough quality. Are we going to try cherry pick the best players at boys club and youth level whilst competing with some big English clubs? Don't the big clubs school the lads aswell?

[The 90+2]

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I'm all for the youth system and developing our own then selling for profit. It's a good business model. My concern is that we don't produce enough quality. Are we going to try cherry pick the best players at boys club and youth level whilst competing with some big English clubs? Don't the big clubs school the lads aswell?

Scotland as a whole don’t produce enough quality players, now all of a sudden everyone is investing in this to attract the best Scottish youngsters? Is the indoor pitch really going to increase the standard of Scottish youngsters quality up by a notch or two? And if it does will we be able to stop them moving west anyway?

Ten years ago we got told to be patient that the training ground was going to be one of the best in the country and the stadium completed and once patient all the other clubs would have to eventually catch up and the training ground would attract the best young players in the country. Since then we’ve been relegated and must have brought through on one hand the amount of young players to even make the grade in the Scottish Ore isrship never mind sell on. After the feel good factor of the cup and finishing fourth and record season ticket sales it was a massive opportunity for the club to push on. It just seems a little back to the future at the moment, missing out on players here and there and going backwards on the pitch whilst trying to convince ourself it’s patience required when the money is being spent off the pitch again.

[sean04]

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Scotland as a whole don’t produce enough quality players, now all of a sudden everyone is investing in this to attract the best Scottish youngsters? Is the indoor pitch really going to increase the standard of Scottish youngsters quality up by a notch or two? And if it does will we be able to stop them moving west anyway?

Ten years ago we got told to be patient that the training ground was going to be one of the best in the country and the stadium completed and once patient all the other clubs would have to eventually catch up and the training ground would attract the best young players in the country. Since then we’ve been relegated and must have brought through on one hand the amount of young players to even make the grade in the Scottish Ore isrship never mind sell on. After the feel good factor of the cup and finishing fourth and record season ticket sales it was a massive opportunity for the club to push on. It just seems a little back to the future at the moment, missing out on players here and there and going backwards on the pitch whilst trying to convince ourself it’s patience required when the money is being spent off the pitch again.

It seems like 1 thing after another. It's stadium, training ground, youth academy etc. There's even supporters wanting the club to fill the corners in at Easter road. Surely increasing the wage cap will would more beneficial to attract better players? Better team, more bums on seats, European revenue, cup runs etc

[Hibernian Verse]

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I'm all for the youth system and developing our own then selling for profit. It's a good business model. My concern is that we don't produce enough quality. Are we going to try cherry pick the best players at boys club and youth level whilst competing with some big English clubs? Don't the big clubs school the lads aswell?

Can you imagine the outrage amongst the support if we started private schooling the top youth academy prospects and they were attending the Edinburgh ones?

Not sure what the French clubs do but it's probably along those lines.

[Brightside]

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Can you imagine the outrage amongst the support if we started private schooling the top youth academy prospects and they were attending the Edinburgh ones?

Not sure what the French clubs do but it's probably along those lines.

Celtic school them.

[Forza Fred]

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Can you imagine the outrage amongst the support if we started private schooling the top youth academy prospects and they were attending the Edinburgh ones?

Not sure what the French clubs do but it's probably along those lines.

In Oz there is a secondary school in Western Sydney called Westfields Sports High which is government funded, not private and is ‘partly selective’ in who can attend.

If you live close to it yes, but mainly it is for pupils who have been identified as having potential in various sports, and the curriculum they follow gives them tutelage in their chosen sport....unlike when I went to Leith Academy and we got a couple of hours at Hawkhill regardless of ability.

It has a couple of current Australian fitba internationalists, both men and women in its list of ex pupils....so it can be done...without it being ‘privately funded’.

Football graduates include Matt Ryan, who plays in goals in the EPL at Brighton, and another is Aaron Mooy who recently joined Brighton on loan from Huddersfield.

They can even boast a European Championship winner in Harry Kewell, who played with both Leeds and Liverpool.

So it can be done, all it takes is government commitment.

[J-C]

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Celtic school them.

Yep, the guy I drive for his laddie goes to their school, very hot prospect for his age, both massive Hibbies but was picked up by Celtic 2-3years ago.

[The 90+2]

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Yep, the guy I drive for his laddie goes to their school, very hot prospect for his age, both massive Hibbies but was picked up by Celtic 2-3years ago.

Would they have went to Hibs had our indoor pitch been built?

[MikeyS]

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Yep, the guy I drive for his laddie goes to their school, very hot prospect for his age, both massive Hibbies but was picked up by Celtic 2-3years ago.

I think Hearts do similar by sending kids to Balerno High.

[J-C]

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Would they have went to Hibs had our indoor pitch been built?

Eh? What has that got to do with it, Celtic get young lads from all over Scotland, they offer an education along with their training, we're talking about 13 year old kids here.

[The 90+2]

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Eh? What has that got to do with it, Celtic get young lads from all over Scotland, they offer an education along with their training, we're talking about 13 year old kids here.

Because apparently building the thing will get us the best youngsters. Celtic Rangers and Hearts offer these educational facilities so we are still far behind indoor pitch or otherwise.