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  1. #601
    @hibs.net private member Radium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    It appears thatís what happened, Max was told to let Lewis past but Lewis hadnít been told. I have to say Iím loving all this, the dirtier the better for me, itís like the good old days of Senna and Prost or Hill and Schumacher.
    Ö whatís the betting that Max takes Lewis out next weekend as happened with those drivers.


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  3. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Max needs to have a word with himselfÖthere is fighting hard and there is down right cheating.

    Finally he got a penalty for his nonsense and Lewis showing calm and class once again.
    Someone is going to get seriously injured one day unless Max changes his driving style, its been talked about for years but doesn't change, hes been let off with quite alot in recent years compared to other drivers down the years.

  4. #603
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    I wonder what the odds are on both Hamilton and Max making turn two in Abu Dhabi.


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  5. #604
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Additional ten second time penalty and two license points for Max for causing a collision.


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  6. #605
    @hibs.net private member Ryan91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
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    Ö whatís the betting that Max takes Lewis out next weekend as happened with those drivers.


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    Been watching this back and forth all season long, it's a really interesting watch, don't want to see either driver deliberately try to take the other out in order to win the championship, could the FIA threaten full Championship Disqualification for the guilty party? I understand that it's been done before, but do the current rules allow for the governing body to lay down such a decision?

    Hopefully it's a good clean race next weekend and we don't see any shenanigans from either driver

    Really interested in how the 2022 Championship is going to shape up with the new regulations

  7. #606
    Testimonial Due Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

    I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

    Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.

  8. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

    I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

    Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.
    Now there's a caveat and a half. Pretty scary for Hamilton knowing Verstappen will probably be prepared to risk a crash provided it takes them both out.

  9. #608
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

    I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

    Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.

    Iím a bit more cynical about the collision

    As you said, when letting another driver through, generally the car in front slows and moves to one side of the track (sometimes making sure the passing driver has to go on the dirty side of the track). In this case, MV stayed very central, right up to the point of the collision. I think he did that to make sure that LH had to move around him more, thus compromising his entry into the corner ahead, in the hope that LH would not only not get a smooth entry and exit at the corner, but would also be ahead at the detection line.

    I do think LH was unsure of what was happening and also aware of not wanting to be ahead at the detection line, and all of those things led to the collision.

    I do think MV has been treated quite leniently on a few occasions this year, which has fuelled his desire to push the hard driving/dangerous driving line too far at times. I do think Hornerís comments of Ď2 drivers went off the track so how do you penalise just maxí was pretty pathetic, itís quite clear that by MV going wide he was going to push the car outside of him off too, or collide.

    That said, I think it was right that LH was given a verbal warning about doing something similar later, which I suspect was to try to lay down the law to both of them.

    Hopefully this weeks race will just see some clean fair but tough racing, and not any nonsense. The FIA/Michael masi/stewards might be well advised to give both of them a private warning that any shenanagins could be dealt with by championship disqualification, lest we end up with a dangerous incident

  10. #609
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    Iím a bit more cynical about the collision

    As you said, when letting another driver through, generally the car in front slows and moves to one side of the track (sometimes making sure the passing driver has to go on the dirty side of the track). In this case, MV stayed very central, right up to the point of the collision. I think he did that to make sure that LH had to move around him more, thus compromising his entry into the corner ahead, in the hope that LH would not only not get a smooth entry and exit at the corner, but would also be ahead at the detection line.

    I do think LH was unsure of what was happening and also aware of not wanting to be ahead at the detection line, and all of those things led to the collision.

    I do think MV has been treated quite leniently on a few occasions this year, which has fuelled his desire to push the hard driving/dangerous driving line too far at times. I do think Hornerís comments of Ď2 drivers went off the track so how do you penalise just maxí was pretty pathetic, itís quite clear that by MV going wide he was going to push the car outside of him off too, or collide.

    That said, I think it was right that LH was given a verbal warning about doing something similar later, which I suspect was to try to lay down the law to both of them.

    Hopefully this weeks race will just see some clean fair but tough racing, and not any nonsense. The FIA/Michael masi/stewards might be well advised to give both of them a private warning that any shenanagins could be dealt with by championship disqualification, lest we end up with a dangerous incident
    I agree with you on that, much as we all feared about Mazepin's driving standards in F1 but he's not been anywhere as bad as Max this season. He's a danger and could have caused multiple collisions, almost all of them with Lewis and isn't learning lessons, if anything he appears emboldened with the lack of FIA action.

    At a track like the one yesterday it could have ended very badly indeed.


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  11. #610
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Thereís no doubt in my mind that Max will do anything he can to win the championship, that includes taking Hamilton out if he has to. People are being very naive if they think that Hamilton or any other driver on the grid wouldnít do the same thing. Hamilton wasnít exactly a saint with his driving yesterday. I donít think it will be anything as bad as Prost Senna at the first corner, something like that would lead to a penalty that would involve a points deduction or disqualification. If Max is ahead late in the race and Lewis cruiseís up behind him and goes for an overtake , Max will 100% try and run him off the road or take him out.

    United we stand here....

  12. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Thereís no doubt in my mind that Max will do anything he can to win the championship, that includes taking Hamilton out if he has to. People are being very naive if they think that Hamilton or any other driver on the grid wouldnít do the same thing. Hamilton wasnít exactly a saint with his driving yesterday. I donít think it will be anything as bad as Prost Senna at the first corner, something like that would lead to a penalty that would involve a points deduction or disqualification. If Max is ahead late in the race and Lewis cruiseís up behind him and goes for an overtake , Max will 100% try and run him off the road or take him out.
    The Senna / Prost thing is interesting as itís often forgotten that Prost did it to him the year beforeÖbasically Senna was just getting him back and was far from happy after he had done so a sit went against his ethos. That said he still did it!

    Schumacher obviously did the same thing at least twice and tried and failed another time. No hand wringing from him though at any point.

    This time there is no doubt Max will do the same if it comes to itÖyesterday was confirmation of that, if any was needed! Masi needs to have strong words before hand if that is to be avoided.

    Iím pretty certain though that something is going to happen. Max and Lewis are so well matched for pace that itís highly unlikely they wonít end up on the same piece of track at some point!

  13. #612
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    The Senna / Prost thing is interesting as it’s often forgotten that Prost did it to him the year before…basically Senna was just getting him back and was far from happy after he had done so a sit went against his ethos. That said he still did it!

    Schumacher obviously did the same thing at least twice and tried and failed another time. No hand wringing from him though at any point.

    This time there is no doubt Max will do the same if it comes to it…yesterday was confirmation of that, if any was needed! Masi needs to have strong words before hand if that is to be avoided.

    I’m pretty certain though that something is going to happen. Max and Lewis are so well matched for pace that it’s highly unlikely they won’t end up on the same piece of track at some point!
    Some fair points - if Max is reading this thread (?) he should consider that former F1 champion Michael Schumacher was disqualified completely from the 1997 competition after his "misdemeanour" with Villeneuve, i.e. trying to run him off the track by hitting him - Schumi was stripped of all points for the season as a whole.
    Best to race fairly IMO ... hope Lewis wins myself ...
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

  14. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    Some fair points - if Max is reading this thread (?) he should consider that former F1 champion Michael Schumacher was disqualified completely from the 1997 competition after his "misdemeanour" with Villeneuve, i.e. trying to run him off the track by hitting him - Schumi was stripped of all points for the season as a whole.
    Best to race fairly IMO ... hope Lewis wins myself ...
    I started the season leaning towards Red Bull and Max for the title but as the season has wore on Iíve moved very firmly into the Lewis camp.

    Max, to my mind, has been overly aggressive and at the weekend was just a downright cheat. Itís a shame as heís a brilliant driver in a class of two with Lewis this season but his antics have turned me right off him and I rarely like to see cheats prosper.

  15. #614
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I started the season leaning towards Red Bull and Max for the title but as the season has wore on Iíve moved very firmly into the Lewis camp.

    Max, to my mind, has been overly aggressive and at the weekend was just a downright cheat. Itís a shame as heís a brilliant driver in a class of two with Lewis this season but his antics have turned me right off him and I rarely like to see cheats prosper.
    Not me, I wanted Lewis to break Schumi's record -
    Red Bull and MV claimed that the telemetry data would prove that he hadn't braked just before Lewis ran into him, yet it seems (according to my German newspaper) that the data actually showed he had indeed ..."applied 69 bar of pressure to the brake pedal" and had braked pretty hard (as it seemed to me on the tv) - no need for that, especially as Hamilton had - at that moment - not yet received the news that MV would move over on the radio ...
    It's been a great season and just hope we have a "fair" race on Sunday - and Lewis wins
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

  16. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    Not me, I wanted Lewis to break Schumi's record -
    Red Bull and MV claimed that the telemetry data would prove that he hadn't braked just before Lewis ran into him, yet it seems (according to my German newspaper) that the data actually showed he had indeed ..."applied 69 bar of pressure to the brake pedal" and had braked pretty hard (as it seemed to me on the tv) - no need for that, especially as Hamilton had - at that moment - not yet received the news that MV would move over on the radio ...
    It's been a great season and just hope we have a "fair" race on Sunday - and Lewis wins
    Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

    Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.

  17. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Exile View Post
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    Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

    Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.
    Max appears to move into the centre of the track just before the collision. I'm not certain that there's a collision without that.

    It's a black flag offence for me.


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  18. #617
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    Max appears to move into the centre of the track just before the collision. I'm not certain that there's a collision without that.

    It's a black flag offence for me.



    I'm with you, Max lingered in the middle of the track rather than moving to one side or the other, and the telemetry showed the stewards he braked suddenly and heavily right before the collision, he was at it imo

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