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  1. #241
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    People working together to get some movement on one aspect of the drug problem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49063485
    Shame the "pro-devolution" Scottish Labour Party won't put their names to it. But fair play to the Liberal Democrat's that did.


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  3. #242
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Shame the "pro-devolution" Scottish Labour Party won't put their names to it. But fair play to the Liberal Democrat's that did.
    That'll be the Red herrings.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  4. #243
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    People working together to get some movement on one aspect of the drug problem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49063485
    Heard that on the radio this morning. Used to be most of the real work at Holyrood was done in the committees. Is that still the case?

  5. #244
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    Heard that on the radio this morning. Used to be most of the real work at Holyrood was done in the committees. Is that still the case?
    This is at Westminster. The radio programme was with Crispin Blunt, and he seemed very taken by the route determined by the Portuguese.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  6. #245
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    This is at Westminster. The radio programme was with Crispin Blunt, and he seemed very taken by the route determined by the Portuguese.
    I think I have reached the point where I have no meaningful contribution to make. (In defence I was driving when it was on the radio, but that doesn't excuse not reading it!)

    Thanks anyway, great to be pointed towards new information.

  7. #246
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I think I have reached the point where I have no meaningful contribution to make. (In defence I was driving when it was on the radio, but that doesn't excuse not reading it!)

    Thanks anyway, great to be pointed towards new information.
    If we all keep pushing, we'll get there in the end.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  8. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    If we all keep pushing, we'll get there in the end.
    Pushing?? Wtf?? 😁

  9. #248
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    If we all keep pushing, we'll get there in the end.
    Yes.

  10. #249
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    Ghetto defendant
    It is heroin pity
    Not tear gas not Baton charge
    That stops you taking the City.

  11. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by southsider View Post
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    Ghetto defendant
    It is heroin pity
    Not tear gas not Baton charge
    That stops you taking the City.
    Not listened to that Clash track for years.
    Allen Ginsberg does a voice over on it if I remember correctly

  12. #251
    @hibs.net private member NORTHERNHIBBY's Avatar
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    Of course the collation of the stats for drug related deaths don't actually mean that drugs were the cause of death just that the deceased was a drugs user . Not sure how many other countries use this metric too.


  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by NORTHERNHIBBY View Post
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    Of course the collation of the stats for drug related deaths don't actually mean that drugs were the cause of death just that the deceased was a drugs user . Not sure how many other countries use this metric too.
    it's rather like smoking related deaths. Go to the hospital with a broken leg, and they ask if you smoke, once that is recorded any condition you develop goes down as smoking related.

  14. #254
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/...mpression=true


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  15. #255
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    https://stv.tv/amp/1441568-snp-confe...mpression=true


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  16. #256
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    it's rather like smoking related deaths. Go to the hospital with a broken leg, and they ask if you smoke, once that is recorded any condition you develop goes down as smoking related.
    Evidence? I do not believe this, no offence but I am curious

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpj View Post
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    Evidence? I do not believe this, no offence but I am curious
    With the greatest of respect to the quoted poster I've noticed he does rather have a tendency to quote unsubstantiated positions that seem to stem directly from Facebook memes. Then comes on here and is corrected, and to be fair does engage positively in those discussions. My worry is that there are millions of other people who live in Twitter and Facebook echo chambers and just propogate and escalate the posts they read.

  18. #258
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    it's rather like smoking related deaths. Go to the hospital with a broken leg, and they ask if you smoke, once that is recorded any condition you develop goes down as smoking related.
    Reminds of the time I went to my GP years ago, had a real bad cough, high temperature and felt crap. When I got to see him a coughing fit started, once it passed he asked how many I smoked a day. I replied that I didnít smoke and never had smoked in my life, he slammed his pen down and told me sternly that if I was going to waste his time by lying about my smoking why should he bother to treat me. I think my enraged response convinced him I was being truthful, got my prescription and told him I would never see him again.

  19. #259
    Testimonial Due Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpj View Post
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    Evidence? I do not believe this, no offence but I am curious
    No offence taken, quite happy to be challenged and improve my knowledge through discussion.

    No evidence, other than a close examination of the figures supplied for drug related deaths this year. For example, a planned suicide, involving drugs, is classed as a drugs related death, it may be the first time the person had taken drugs in their life.

    Likewise, a death from Hep C will be classed as drugs related, even if the person has not touched drugs for 40 years.

    Edit (having gotten off my arse, I tracked this down: the key information for definition of drug related deaths can be found here: https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/...ths-18-pub.pdf

    I think this is quite a telling statement. "The definition of drug related deaths is not straightforward."

    Read down and you come across this catch all section (Section A2, b), which widens the net greatly.

    Likewise, with smoking, we find: "Themethod used for calculating smoking attributable deaths is consistentwith the method used by Public Health England. In the absence ofdirect information on individual smoking histories, a proxy measureis used to calculate the proportion of deaths which are due tosmoking. Only deaths for those Scottish residents aged 35 years andolder are included, as the likelihood of younger individuals dyingfrom smoking is low. "

    https://www.scotpho.org.uk/behaviour/tobacco-use/data/smoking-attributable-deaths/

    Now coming back to drugs, and the use of approved drug taking rooms in particular. Using drug related deaths alone to justify this is not an evidence based approach, as not every one of those deaths could have been prevented by the introduction of these "clinics".

    Anecdotaly I see great benefits from approved rooms, and de criminalisation. What concerns me is that the same headline will be thrown at us again next year, politicians shedding crocodile tears.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 14-10-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  20. #260
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    Getting to root of why so many people in Scotland feel the need to take drugs would be a good start

  21. #261
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjosoo View Post
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    Getting to root of why so many people in Scotland feel the need to take drugs would be a good start
    Itís not just Scotland. People like getting ******** up. Happens everywhere. Managing it and helping people stop is the way to go.


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  22. #262
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    https://www.scotsman.com/health/scot...mpression=true
    Positive steps.


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