Meeting with wee Ron

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/9287

"Cash balance 30th June 2018 £4.2m"

For the financial types out there does that mean we have £4.2m sat in the bank? And that's before the SJM transfer fee or add-on? Surely enough for a covered pitch at EM.

If the club have committed to an indoor pitch as a result of our commitment to Project Brave surely they'll have funding in place doesn't directly involve the fans. Admittedly getting into debt over it with no guarantees return doesn't seem the best either.

If I'm not mistaken that £4.2m is made mostly up of last seasons season ticket sales which will now be gone on wages, general running of the club etc.

[green&left]

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If I'm not mistaken that £4.2m is made mostly up of last seasons season ticket sales which will now be gone on wages, general running of the club etc.

Fair enough - that makes sense. Did think it was alot of money for a club our size to be sitting on.

[cocteautwin]

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http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/9287

"Cash balance 30th June 2018 £4.2m"

For the financial types out there does that mean we have £4.2m sat in the bank? And that's before the SJM transfer fee or add-on? Surely enough for a covered pitch at EM.

If the club have committed to an indoor pitch as a result of our commitment to Project Brave surely they'll have funding in place doesn't directly involve the fans. Admittedly getting into debt over it with no guarantees return doesn't seem the best either.

Most of that was season ticket money that needed to be used for the running costs of the club for the coming season. The SJM fee hadn't yet been received at that stage. Most clubs should have decent cash balances in the summer time due to season ticket sales for the season approaching. Unless you are Hearts though and your season ticket money was all spent in advance, only had £199k in the bank last summer and needed an injection of cash of £3.25m from their anonymous donor.

[Forza Fred]

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Nothing much will change I’d say. Any hopes I had of a sugar daddy helping us compete in the transfer/wage department are fast disappearing.

Tom Farmer had to relinquish control at some point.

If ‘nothing much changes’ then we are no worse off...same horse, different jockey as they say.

We all hope for a ‘Fitba Sugar Daddy’ but they are few and far between.

As for the ‘Pony Up’ comment....I assume it is meant that the expectation on his part is they will..’continue to do their bit’..as they have been doing.

Don’t see anything sinister in it.....

[MountcastleHibs]

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Gathering 3-4million thru hsl would take some time naw?
When is the pitch being built??
I think we there might be some miscommunication on that one surely.?

In order to maintain our status as an elite academy through Project Brave, we need to have the facility built by 2020. I don’t know if there’s a timescale within 2020, but it needs to be there for us to have that status. Obviously, Ron’s plans seem to be heavily leaning towards the academy and youth development which is why this has been identified as a priority. I see others above have said they don’t want to spend the money that is required for an indoor facility, but it is a major requirement for us if we want to keep our elite status as an academy, which we need to in order to fulfil Ron’s vision. Swings and roundabouts...

[Forza Fred]

I know we must develop our youth players, but I don’t see the path to riches or glory through a conveyer belt of youngsters capable at performing at SPFL level being produced.

The churn rate indicates that relatively few come through to be regular first team players, Even less so, first team players who other clubs are willing to pay a substantial fee for.

Even if they do have the required talent, and it is a big if, they don’t immediately go from Academy player to serious transfer target overnight, so any return on investment is potentially years away.

If Ron thinks he will increase the revenue stream through youth development, methinks he will end up disappointed.

[heid the baw]

Not convinced by the pony up bit. E.R stands and training facilities were mostly funded through player sales which were enhanced by petrie's hardball tactics. Surely the best way to do Infrastructure is to invest these large gains if and when they come along as opposed to *****ing them on one season of big wage earners.
Ponying up small amounts to support the playing budget is an easier sell to fans than infrastructure
.

[Turkish Green]

When Petrie went I thought I'd be happy as I never waivered in my dislike of the 'tache. I am not sure about the new guy but will give him my backing in the short term.

[Antifa Hibs]

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Not living beyond our means makes sense but lets not forget that any 'pony up' statement by a majority shareholder in reference to fans putting more money into the club is not "prioritising my cash" as you put it, it is the club's cash which largely (beyond Ron's "investments") is generated from the fans. Maybe I should prioritise my cash and put it to good use in my own life rather than pay £400 for a ST, HSL funds, transport costs to go to games etc. and leave the 'ponying up' to the new majority shareholder. After all, I donate, he invests. He can prioritise his cash the way he likes. He cannot prioritise the money being brought into the club the way he likes...least I hope that's not the case because then we are in real trouble...if he has ability to bypass/overpower the board then we are in trouble.

I'm exaggerating above, I'm obviously going to go to the games but any initiatives to raise funds for the club are likely to be well off my radar and my HSL membership is likely to cease.

Community club which takes more money from it's community members to fund it's own infrastructure doesn't sit right with me. Hope this all gets clarified because there is some stuff going about at the moment which doesn't sound/look great.

Community club stuff is a marketing ploy - most clubs are at it. We offer no discounts to local poor or unemployed supporters. Charge obscene amounts for kids entry. Charge even worse amounts for half time kickabouts or mascots etc.

One of the biggest community contributions is the leith links season ticket stuff which is fan led and fan funded.

"Come on in children to our wonderful community club were we'll charge a tenner for a glorified freindly and 3 quid for a capri sun that costs 50p doon the road".

[matty_f]

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Community club stuff is a marketing ploy - most clubs are at it. We offer no discounts to local poor or unemployed supporters. Charge obscene amounts for kids entry. Charge even worse amounts for half time kickabouts or mascots etc.

One of the biggest community contributions is the leith links season ticket stuff which is fan led and fan funded.

"Come on in children to our wonderful community club were we'll charge a tenner for a glorified freindly and 3 quid for a capri sun that costs 50p doon the road".

Hibs give out loads of tickets to schools for many matches during the season, have very good pricing on kids’ season tickets with the family season ticket, as well as the Hibs Kids scheme that gives 5 matches per season as part of the membership.

I think there’s also community football on offer at East Mains through the season etc.

Selectively picking bits of information the chin the club about isn’t fair, imho.

They are also very good with men’s mental health initiatives, the football fans in training, diabetes awareness etc

[green day]

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Hibs give out loads of tickets to schools for many matches during the season, have very good pricing on kids’ season tickets with the family season ticket, as well as the Hibs Kids scheme that gives 5 matches per season as part of the membership.

I think there’s also community football on offer at East Mains through the season etc.

Selectively picking bits of information the chin the club about isn’t fair, imho.

They are also very good with men’s mental health initiatives, the football fans in training, diabetes awareness etc

I don't disagree, however the Helping Hands guys (Brad Welsh helped set this up) do things like Free Football all over Edinburgh in the summer.

Hibs (like all clubs, tbf) charge for kids summer football. Of course we are a business, but we can always do more.

[The Captain....]

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In deference to 'Madhatter's' post who has already addressed this.

I pay £400 for a season ticket, I go to practically every home game I cant use my ST for, I buy stuff from the food kiosks, I buy stuff from the Hibs shop. I pay £10 a month to HSL ( may it rest in peace ) and petrol costs me £10 or so for every game I attend.

When I have a commitment like that which is decades long I'm sorry mate, but if a guy buys my football club and especially when his very first action is to make it clear that he is in charge by putting a stop to the previous owners initiative that was supposed to at least give the fans some influence in the club, then I expect him to not only provide the initial cash to buy out the previous owners, but also to have a commitment to fund the club out of his own pocket to a reasonable extent .. and not as is seeming more and more likely to be the case, to expect the fans he has just sidelined / put in their place to pay for everything.

If that's the extent of his commitment to funding the club on and off the park going forward then sorry but I'm becoming less and less impressed by the minute with Mr Gordon

I said at the beginning that the jury was out for me until I saw evidence of what his ownership of the club was going to be like and so far I'm still waiting to be won over.

Actions speak louder than words is obviously a trite saying but it applies here for me..its far too early for me to be proclaiming the new owner a good thing or not as I've yet to see any substantial plans. The cleverly worded soundbites so far give no indication that our playing budget will increase signifcantly (within our structure before the old "we wont spend £1m posts start") in size and thats what would impress me most. In fact its quite the reverse with the plan seemingly to focus on bringing thru youth with the attendant increase in infrastructure costs that brings at East Mains.

We will not challenge Aberdeen or Celtic or Rangers with the current level of player we are bringing to the club..anyone who believes we will is deluded. To be fair Ron has said we would challenge further up the league in time so maybe he expects a few lower finishes while we embark on yet more infrastructure spending. I actually feel quite downbeat about the next couple of season tbh.

[tamig]

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In order to maintain our status as an elite academy through Project Brave, we need to have the facility built by 2020. I don’t know if there’s a timescale within 2020, but it needs to be there for us to have that status. Obviously, Ron’s plans seem to be heavily leaning towards the academy and youth development which is why this has been identified as a priority. I see others above have said they don’t want to spend the money that is required for an indoor facility, but it is a major requirement for us if we want to keep our elite status as an academy, which we need to in order to fulfil Ron’s vision. Swings and roundabouts...

Is that definitely a Project Brave condition - you need to have a full size indoor pitch? Do the hun and Celtc even have that?

[K Kay]

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Is that definitely a Project Brave condition - you need to have a full size indoor pitch? Do the hun and Celtc even have that?

Sure I'm right in saying Ron purchased an additional piece of land at East Mains as well as the ticket office. This must have been bought with the intent to build the indoor facility so surely its a goer.

[WhileTheChief..]

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If I'm not mistaken that £4.2m is made mostly up of last seasons season ticket sales which will now be gone on wages, general running of the club etc.

Thing is, the club will be sitting on roughly the same amount of cash just now from this season ST sales.

He's paid a few million for the club only to find out that the cub has a few million in the bank anyways.

Basically he got us for nowt and now wants us to pony up more!

[Caversham Green]

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Thing is, the club will be sitting on roughly the same amount of cash just now from this season ST sales.

He's paid a few million for the club only to find out that the cub has a few million in the bank anyways.

Basically he got us for nowt and now wants us to pony up more!

That is seriously skewed thinking. Ron Gordon has no more claim on the club's money than you or I do.

[WhileTheChief..]

Tongue in cheek comment.

But there's a basis of truth in it

[Caversham Green]

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Tongue in cheek comment.

But there's a basis of truth in it

You need to put smileys in then or some folk will believe it.

And there's nae truth whatsoever in it.

[WhileTheChief..]

My first two sentences were 100% accurate! ;)

(Can’t do proper smilies from the phone, sorry!)

[Caversham Green]

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My first two sentences were 100% accurate! ;)

(Can’t do proper smilies from the phone, sorry!)

Aye fair enough, your not wrong there.

[.Sean.]

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Community club stuff is a marketing ploy - most clubs are at it. We offer no discounts to local poor or unemployed supporters. Charge obscene amounts for kids entry. Charge even worse amounts for half time kickabouts or mascots etc.

One of the biggest community contributions is the leith links season ticket stuff which is fan led and fan funded.

"Come on in children to our wonderful community club were we'll charge a tenner for a glorified freindly and 3 quid for a capri sun that costs 50p doon the road".

The charging of the mascot package is ludicrous IMO

Used to be open to all Hibs Kids, nowadays it discriminates against Hibs daft children from families who perhaps can't afford the mascot package. I don't like it.

[barcahibs]

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Hibs give out loads of tickets to schools for many matches during the season, have very good pricing on kids’ season tickets with the family season ticket, as well as the Hibs Kids scheme that gives 5 matches per season as part of the membership.

I think there’s also community football on offer at East Mains through the season etc.

Selectively picking bits of information the chin the club about isn’t fair, imho.

They are also very good with men’s mental health initiatives, the football fans in training, diabetes awareness etc

I think the club do a fair amount of community work and we should be proud of it.

But we also have to be aware that we play in a competitive sport set up and the fans, to a greater or lesser extent, demand at least relative sporting success in order to maintain their interest levels.

That sporting success comes at a cost, we have to spend at least as much as our rivals - and more than most.

Where does that money come from?

A constant mantra from the fans is that the club is more than the possession of its titular owner, Sir Tom and Rod understood that I think, and always had one eye on their legacy - who is to say Ron won't be the same? We simply don't know his motives at this point.

But again we hear the call that this or that is too expensive and the club expects the fans to fork out (or pony up) too much.

So how do we square this circle? The club is the fans, the fans are the club. But the fans shouldn't have to pay for it.

Maybe Ron intends to fund the gap from his own pocket. Great if he does. But why should he? And if he does are those who shout loudest that the fans are the true custodians of Hibs going to pipe down and let Hibs be his play thing? He would have bought and paid for us after all.

Personally I would love to see Hibs really expand the fan and community aspects of the club. I'd like to see subsidised tickets for those less fortunate. I'd like all kids tickets to be free, I'd like the mascot packages to be free, I'd love there to be free sports education, summer schools, fitness programmes, a fully paid for professional woman's team. I'd like Easter Road and Hibs to be a hub of the community.

And I can already hear the howls of protest from those that see every penny spent on things like that as a penny stolen from the managers playing fund.

Maybe Ron can fund that difference. It would be great if he could. But again why should he?

Maybe we the community should fund it. Maybe that could be the new purpose of HSL, a fund to run the community side of the club, paid for by those fans who can afford it, voluntarily, and each according yo what they personally feel they can contribute.

That would be my goal if I won the lottery and bought over Hibs.

But I doubt Ron thinks the same.

[Torto7]

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I think the club do a fair amount of community work and we should be proud of it.

But we also have to be aware that we play in a competitive sport set up and the fans, to a greater or lesser extent, demand at least relative sporting success in order to maintain their interest levels.

That sporting success comes at a cost, we have to spend at least as much as our rivals - and more than most.

Where does that money come from?

A constant mantra from the fans is that the club is more than the possession of its titular owner, Sir Tom and Rod understood that I think, and always had one eye on their legacy - who is to say Ron won't be the same? We simply don't know his motives at this point.

But again we hear the call that this or that is too expensive and the club expects the fans to fork out (or pony up) too much.

So how do we square this circle? The club is the fans, the fans are the club. But the fans shouldn't have to pay for it.

Maybe Ron intends to fund the gap from his own pocket. Great if he does. But why should he? And if he does are those who shout loudest that the fans are the true custodians of Hibs going to pipe down and let Hibs be his play thing? He would have bought and paid for us after all.

Personally I would love to see Hibs really expand the fan and community aspects of the club. I'd like to see subsidised tickets for those less fortunate. I'd like all kids tickets to be free, I'd like the mascot packages to be free, I'd love there to be free sports education, summer schools, fitness programmes, a fully paid for professional woman's team. I'd like Easter Road and Hibs to be a hub of the community.

And I can already hear the howls of protest from those that see every penny spent on things like that as a penny stolen from the managers playing fund.

Maybe Ron can fund that difference. It would be great if he could. But again why should he?

Maybe we the community should fund it. Maybe that could be the new purpose of HSL, a fund to run the community side of the club, paid for by those fans who can afford it, voluntarily, and each according yo what they personally feel they can contribute.

That would be my goal if I won the lottery and bought over Hibs.

But I doubt Ron thinks the same.

The women's team being professional doesn't belong on the list with those other things. If the ladies are to go pro then there needs to be the demand for it which currently doesn't exist. Too many professional teams is a big part of the problem in the men's game too. Any resources would be better being spent on improved coaching/sports science access etc and in time hopefully the appetite will be there for it to be fully pro. Central funding might be a better route for the women's game for the foreseeable.

In terms of the other points in an ideal world I'd agree with you. We don't live in an ideal world though and the standard in the SPL is already awful imo. If we cut back on the first team budget to pay for these things the type of players we could attract would likely lead to dropped revenue due to poorer performance. Then everyone loses out.

[tamig]

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Sure I'm right in saying Ron purchased an additional piece of land at East Mains as well as the ticket office. This must have been bought with the intent to build the indoor facility so surely its a goer.

Its a goer but is it a Project Brave requirement to retain Elite Academy status?

[Since452]

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Its a goer but is it a Project Brave requirement to retain Elite Academy status?

No it's not a requirement for that just an improvement for the club. Don't think many clubs in Scotland have the funds for an indoor pitch. Not sure if Aberdeen are building one, they might just try and hijack ours 😉

[tamig]

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No it's not a requirement for that just an improvement for the club. Don't think many clubs in Scotland have the funds for an indoor pitch. Not sure if Aberdeen are building one, they might just try and hijack ours 😉

Cheers. One poster seemed to indicate we were building it to meet PB requirements which I found surprising. Hence the question.

[Edina Erin]

Plans to build the indoor facility and arranging the finance, has been something that’s been in place for sometime - long before RG arrived.

There’s definitely some mutually beneficial arrangement to exploit here, whereby the community foundation, in its capacity as a charity and community football club, unlocks grants/funding form other parties/bodies.

Hibs have always been keen to highlight that the Community Foundation operates completely independently from the football club - The ladies team effectively had to rent Easter Road from the football club when the European game against Bayern was played - but I think STF, RP and LD have been good at maximising the benefit that the Community Foundation can bring to the Football Club - when it suits.

[Brightside]

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Hibs give out loads of tickets to schools for many matches during the season, have very good pricing on kids’ season tickets with the family season ticket, as well as the Hibs Kids scheme that gives 5 matches per season as part of the membership.

I think there’s also community football on offer at East Mains through the season etc.

Selectively picking bits of information the chin the club about isn’t fair, imho.

They are also very good with men’s mental health initiatives, the football fans in training, diabetes awareness etc

What do you mean by community football at east mains? It’s certainly not free or even discounted.

[Brightside]

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The women's team being professional doesn't belong on the list with those other things. If the ladies are to go pro then there needs to be the demand for it which currently doesn't exist. Too many professional teams is a big part of the problem in the men's game too. Any resources would be better being spent on improved coaching/sports science access etc and in time hopefully the appetite will be there for it to be fully pro. Central funding might be a better route for the women's game for the foreseeable.

In terms of the other points in an ideal world I'd agree with you. We don't live in an ideal world though and the standard in the SPL is already awful imo. If we cut back on the first team budget to pay for these things the type of players we could attract would likely lead to dropped revenue due to poorer performance. Then everyone loses out.

How have Glasgow city managed to give one of our ex players a Pro contract? We don’t have to go fully pro but there is plenty that should be happening. The chief exec of Glasgow City appears to be pretty switched on with how to make this happen.

[Edina Erin]

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Sure I'm right in saying Ron purchased an additional piece of land at East Mains as well as the ticket office. This must have been bought with the intent to build the indoor facility so surely its a goer.

The existing HTC footprint only occupies about have on the land “available”.
Didn’t STF originally buy the whole area and sold part to the Football Club? I suspect that the “additional” land that RG Bought was the part still owned by STF.