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  1. #91
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    Probably sensible to wait for an official update from HSL instead of speculating.


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

    For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.
    The thing is it was not inevitable. If we, the supporters, had taken up the offer we would have owned 51% of the club. We chose not to do that and so the shares were there for an outside bidder, in this case Ron Gordon. The only inevitable thing was that STF would have to move on one day. We were offered the opportunity to be in control of how that happened but we chose not to accept that offer in sufficient numbers. The negativity spouted on sites like this helped to ensure that failure happened. Everyone is entitled to their view and to do what they wish with their spare cash if they have any but we cannot then complain if we did not climb on the bus at the controls.
    As I said before, there is a new bus at the station with a different destination. We can now choose to climb aboard but this time we must have faith in the driver. It’s our choice. I for one want to be along for the ride and if it means subsidising people who can’t afford the ticket I am happy to do my bit. What I have more difficulty with is bringing along a small but vociferous bunch of moaners full of nothing but negativity.
    Last edited by CentreLine; 11-07-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  4. #93
    First Team Breakthrough kevinc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    Was it explicit that the contribution from fans should be over and above attending games and buying merch?

    Not trying to interrogate you here, just conscious that people can come away from a meeting with different interpretations of what was said/meant
    No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinc View Post
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    No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.
    My take on it also
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  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member Golden Bear's Avatar
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    Ah well, here's one fan who would be happy if a separate Fund was established whereby supporters could make financial contributions which would go directly towards a Capital Project like the construction of a full size indoor pitch.

    I've never had any interest in share ownership via the HSL scheme and I know I'm not alone.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentreLine View Post
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    I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

    We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

    There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And letís not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, ďwe are all HibsĒ and we can all still enjoy the ride.
    Good post. Looking forward to some clarity but it's not like we haven't had a long time to invest in the club on very favourable terms and the HSL directors have done all they can to encourage us to invest. Hopefully, we are still able to build the shareholding with protections that it wont be diluted below 25%. Wake up call for us all now the security blanket of STF has gone?

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  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member hibbymac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinc View Post
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    No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn View Post
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    My take on it also
    He will put money in but will look to the support to "Pony up"
    " Whatever the future may hold, Fans of this unique club will stand firm in Hibernians corner. Yes, united they stand, those wonderful supporters and The greatest football club on earth, " - Hibernian F.C. The team that wouldn't die. Click here

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbymac View Post
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    He will put money in but will look to the support to "Pony up"
    I wasnt at the meeting but id assume that to mean fans 'contributing' as in buying season tickets, attending matches etc......but could be wrong.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy M View Post
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    I wasnt at the meeting but id assume that to mean fans 'contributing' as in buying season tickets, attending matches etc......but could be wrong.
    the 'Pony Up' statement was specific to the Academy and separate from season tickets , match attendance , merchandise etc

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn View Post
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    That's wrong. Their constitution was to collect money to purchase shares. That has now changed. They have to change their articles of assiciation/mandate
    Thatís how I see it as well mate.
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  12. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

    For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, Iím not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.
    You don't seem to realise that share dilution was caused by the STF share issue. The 37% to 33% reduction in fan's current holding would have been reduced without there being a takeover (i.e. in the future when the full share issue was bought by fans).

    I agree that monies raised should go to playing budget though - they would be off their trolleys to change that.

  13. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinc View Post
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    No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.
    Thanks.

    That is interesting. Seems like there will be mixed feelings on that. Possibly an opportunity for Hibs to explain more clearly how these fan contributions would be spent and what the ultimate potential benefit is to the first team. If thereís one lesson from recent years, it seems like people want things spelled out in minute detail

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
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    You don't seem to realise that share dilution was caused by the STF share issue. The 37% to 33% reduction in fan's current holding would have been reduced without there being a takeover (i.e. in the future when the full share issue was bought by fans).

    I agree that monies raised should go to playing budget though - they would be off their trolleys to change that.
    If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution
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  15. #104
    First Team Breakthrough HibeePaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn View Post
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    If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution
    I think the point he is making that Ďtodayísí 37% would be worth 33% when the full share offer had been taken up. But yes, by that point the fans would have had a larger % in total (51%?)

  16. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn View Post
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    If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution
    Incorrect - increasing shares dilutes the value of existing shares. Whoever buys them.

  17. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by HibeePaj View Post
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    I think the point he is making that Ďtodayísí 37% would be worth 33% when the full share offer had been taken up. But yes, by that point the fans would have had a larger % in total (51%?)
    Indeed, but the point I made is still valid. All this blaming RG for diluting our shares is just way off target.

  18. #107
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by City of Green View Post
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    Iíve read the whole thread and still confuses me.

    Why STF / Hibs / LD werenít in touch before the sale - to speak with HSL.

    Could STF not have given shares to HSL to help reach target ?

    HSL - where does the ££ exactly go - as another poster mentioned - is there specifics ?

    Surely fans continuing to give money is a risk ? You have no idea where your ££ is going and what itís being spent on.

    Like others we already pay crazy prices in Scotland for a season ticket asking for more seems in reasonable.

    I still feel HSL is never going to reach the levels it should as so many fans are sceptical or whatís happened / where money is going. This recent issue is a prime example of lack of information.

    Any future schemes need to be better organised and fully transparent so fans know whatís going on and exactly what money is going towards and examples of it working.
    Why don't we wait and see what HSL have to say officially today?

  19. #108
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    I have real reservations about subsidising a millionaire owner with more donations to the academy, first team or anything else for that matter. As has been pointed out we already pay hundreds every year to support our team.

    i have no axe to grind with Ron Gordon but if he wants to be the principal shareholder of our great club then he will have to pay for the privilege, above and beyond what he had already put in, for its upkeep.

    asking fans to do it (increasing the value of the club for him to own) doesnít sit well with me at all. I was delighted to pay into HSL knowing it was getting more shares in the hands of supporters. Now Iím not so sure.

  20. #109
    irrespective of ur motives, ie contribution for share ownership or to close the gap on our rivals in terms of revenue for players,thw inescapable fact is that stopping contributions can only be detrimental to our cash flow.

  21. #110
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    We do really need to wait until the club issue a statement on this, and that should be today apparently.

    STF wanted out, thats clear. He does not look in the best of health, and will have done checks on Ron. He's turned down bids in the past, and while he wanted off the bus as he said, i'm pretty sure he has the greatest respect and trust in this new owner.

    STF wanted to sell, and he was not prepared to wait until such times as we the fans managed to get 51% of the club, and who could blame him, we were hardly knocking the door down to buy these shares.

    We apparently have enough shares now to kybosh anything major, but are reliant on Ron to do the good things we all want and take the club forward, just as we were under STF.

    A statement over this from the club should clear things up and if HSL carries on in a different mode or not, but we will just have to wait and see, as we do on all things Hibs.

  22. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia View Post
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    I have real reservations about subsidising a millionaire owner with more donations to the academy, first team or anything else for that matter. As has been pointed out we already pay hundreds every year to support our team.

    i have no axe to grind with Ron Gordon but if he wants to be the principal shareholder of our great club then he will have to pay for the privilege, above and beyond what he had already put in, for its upkeep.

    asking fans to do it (increasing the value of the club for him to own) doesnít sit well with me at all. I was delighted to pay into HSL knowing it was getting more shares in the hands of supporters. Now Iím not so sure.
    You can't really think the Hibs will ever turn a profit?

    However, if you really do then you have the option of not contributing - I will continue my contributions though.

  23. #112
    thats where i am. the cash received goes into cash flow however you cut it doesnt it? ill keep paying my 50pm on that basis until im convinced otherwise

  24. #113
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    The bottom line is if Hibs fans had got right behind HSL from the start we would not be in this position. All the rubbish about PONZI schemes and everything else has only done harm to the club

  25. #114
    btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl

  26. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
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    You can't really think the Hibs will ever turn a profit?
    Its not a ridiculous notion at at. None of us knows what lies ahead for Scottish football but I have a feeling there will be more money coming in in the future than there has been recently.

  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigiehibs View Post
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    btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl
    I agree Craigie Hibs

  28. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by hibbydad View Post
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    The bottom line is if Hibs fans had got right behind HSL from the start we would not be in this position. All the rubbish about PONZI schemes and everything else has only done harm to the club
    Totally agree - and we just sat on our bums and criticised HSL. I thought at first it would have mobilised fans but it just didn't happen.

    In the end I am relieved that the 51% hasn't come about - it would have been divisive as anything IMO.

  29. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by hibbydad View Post
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    I agree Craigie Hibs
    thanks..the rank and file deserve to know the plans. we are the ones that go to er and away games thick and thin

  30. #119
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Bear View Post
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    Ah well, here's one fan who would be happy if a separate Fund was established whereby supporters could make financial contributions which would go directly towards a Capital Project like the construction of a full size indoor pitch.

    I've never had any interest in share ownership via the HSL scheme and I know I'm not alone.
    Me too I reckon. My HSL contribution can just be diverted to it instead.

    Will wait and see what's proposed.

  31. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by craigiehibs View Post
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    btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl
    The Trustees of The Hibernian Supporters Association were asked to facilitate the meeting last night to give Ron a chance to meet with supporters.

    As such we invited branches to put forward three members to attend. 13 branches were represented along with our trustees and four of our honorary presidents.

    As HFC planned this is as an informal "meet and greet" we did not minute last night's discussion. Of course, those branches in attendance will be able to update their members as they see fit.

    We will be looking to organise further events with Ron over the course of this season and beyond. As per our recent Q&A with Paul and Robbie, full reports of those events will appear on our website.

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