Hsl

[tamig]

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Yes. I don't know how that translates into we continue to pay a monthly fee for nothing. No shares.

This is still hypothetical until we know but imagine Man City fans being asked to pay a monthly subscription to improve the playing budget. It's an exaggerated example but still has its purpose. HSL was rightly initially advertised as a mechanism to help fund the betterment of the club through sporting achievement (better players etc.). It was also put across with sacrifice a coffee here and there and put some money a side for HSL each month. For shares in the club that's fine, for safeguarding the club that's fine. It isn't so fine when you've just had a millionaire buy over your club though. I think most people deserve their coffees again!

Clarification is needed.

So just because there’s been a change of ownership you would be prepared to stop contributing a few quid each month even if you knew the cash was going directly towards the playing budget?

[Rocky]

I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.

[hibbydad]

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I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.

Good post Rocky the HSL part could be a problem but the rest of us could take up the rights issue

[madhatter]

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So just because there’s been a change of ownership you would be prepared to stop contributing a few quid each month even if you knew the cash was going directly towards the playing budget?

Potentially yes. What does playing budget truly mean? We are making an investment in our own way. I'm sure any investment made by Ron gets better substance than buzzwords. He'll know where his money is going exactly. If we are making donations and no longer get any shares or similar in return then we should get transparency on what the funds have been spent on. The change in model here should not be underestimated (if there is indeed one).

we shall find out when Jim has further news. Club need to up their game if HSL are remaining, need to start creating/backing funding campaigns with rewards that do not hugely dilute raised funds etc.

[hibee_nation]

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I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.

No chance next thing you know we are diluted below 25% and in the lap of the gods again.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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agree. A bit disheartened tonight if I’m honest. Will have to think very carefully on whether or not to continue my donations. I signed up for a shareholding vehicle for supporters to safeguard the club for future generations. Not a football manager’s budget (though that was a nice bonus).

This is exactly where I stand as well. I will seriously have to consider what I do now … if HSL had been launched solely as a way to put money into Hibs playing budget, or simply to help fund the club in all areas I would probably have joined anyway. But I was enthused by the thought of the club's supporters having a blocking vote and now that has changed … I cant help feeling let down by this to be honest insomuch as during the transfer of ownership STF and RP were clearly unable to persuade the new owner to continue with the sale of shares at least until HSL had 26%.

I understand from a post above that 33% of the total share issue is in the hands of supporters … but obviously spread amongst thousands of individuals and a few syndicates? that we know nothing about … We need to find a way to ensure that it ever came to the crunch all of these different entities are of a like mind when it comes to the protection and preservation of our club.

[Purple & Green]

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HSL can't buy any more shares are there are none available.

Is a change of articles of association needed, maybe rebrand stating donations go into playing squad?

Maybe a place on the board as a gesture of goodwill?

[Hibbyradge]

Unless it's a Ponzi scheme, I'll keep donating.

PS What's a Ponzi scheme.

[1875STEVE]

Il still be donating.

Hopefully it's rebranded as a boost the managers fund set-up

I was fine with it as it was, i would really liked to have seen it get to 25%

However ron has pumped in millions, doing what HSL couldn't.

Im fine with that, especially as fans we have 33% combined. if it was ever needed im 99.9% positive every fan would vote the same way

[Col2]

HSL have said they will statement on Thursday so let’s see what comes out.

Expectations are that it’s a positive statement so fingers crossed.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Whether you are cool with this situation or not I think everybody must agree that we need some clarification as to what has gone on here and in my opinion this is the first test of whether or not Ronald Gordon will be prepared to honestly and openly engage with the clubs supporters.

It doesn't matter what the situation is now, the sale of shares in this football club was advertised by it as an opportunity for fans to have a 51% stake in the club, or at worst a blocking vote, and the presumption must be that fans bought shares and joined HSL on that premise … the fact that most probably didn't is utterly immaterial ... that's what it was sold to us as by Hibernian football club and now after spending hundreds, in some cases thousand, of pounds that is not what we are getting.

Just because the club has now been sold that does not in my view absolve its new owner from a responsibility to inform the clubs supporters as to why he has put a stop to the availability of shares, effectively turning what we were initially told into a mistruth … especially when the club itself helped to set up the main share purchasing group, encouraged participation in it, and even got the clubs players and manager to sign up to it. Not to mention that the CEO of the club AFAIK still has a place on the committee of that body.

Its not enough in my opinion for Ronald Gordon to say its a simple matter of him wanting total control of the club, he also has to say why one day fans having a say in the club was a good idea and now in his opinion it isn't.

In view of the fact that it is 100% certain that Hibs and Ronald Gordon will be extremely keen to see HSL continue under a different guise as a simple vehicle for people who love and care for this club to give it extra voluntary funding, its all the more incumbent on him and the club to explain this change of direction and to issue some sort of apology to the people who bought shares thinking it would give them if not a say in the club they love then at least the opportunity to safeguard it only to find out years and a lot of money later that this will not be the case.

I do not think that this is in any way an unreasonable request and if Mr Gordon thinks it is perhaps he doesn't know as much about the trials and tribulations of owning a football club as he thinks he did.

[Earlydelivery]

Spoke to James Adie on Monday saying nothing changing whatsoever with contributing.

[Robbo6-2]

I find it strange that there was no clear announcement on Day 1 regarding the HSL shares. If negotiations took as long as was stated then surely you would expect the topic of HSL would be high on the agenda.

By the sounds of things HSL werent even in the know regarding the sale of the club. Was that not one of the reasons why this was started to ensure the fans had a say in any new ownership?

I must of paid in between 500-1000 into HSL over the last few years and will continue to do so as long as we get a clear confirmation of what the money is being used for.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Spoke to James Adie on Monday saying nothing changing whatsoever with contributing.

That's wrong. Their constitution was to collect money to purchase shares. That has now changed. They have to change their articles of assiciation/mandate

[derekduval]

Would have been good if Tom farmer had created enough shares and kept them separate for HSL to buy ( or even gifted them to us although I appreciate he’s done enough) so that we reached our 26% or whatever our target was as part of the deal with Ron.

Also it doesn’t matter where our future donations go as the club can just reduce the percentage going to the playing budget as they know we will make it up and would have no idea if it actually increases it or allows them to reduce what the club puts in and direct the funds elsewhere???

[Dmas]

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I find it strange that there was no clear announcement on Day 1 regarding the HSL shares. If negotiations took as long as was stated then surely you would expect the topic of HSL would be high on the agenda.

By the sounds of things HSL werent even in the know regarding the sale of the club. Was that not one of the reasons why this was started to ensure the fans had a say in any new ownership?

I must of paid in between 500-1000 into HSL over the last few years and will continue to do so as long as we get a clear confirmation of what the money is being used for.

HSL was set up and organised to dilute STF’s shareholding in the club it was an agreement between us and him, I’m surprised it’s taken this long for people to realise that deal expired the second Ron Gordon bought him out.

The only thing that requires answers is why it has taken HSL and Hibs this long to communicate with the fans who have been putting money in, it’s ridiculous to let speculation run rife on this issue at a time where we should all be gearing up for the big kick off, it also gives credibility to the moon howlers currently swiping away at the club over Ponzi schemes and loan facilities.

I haven’t signed up yet, but the strip push had tempted me but until I hear from HSL I’l be holding off, the communications from the club has improved tenfold over the years I really Hope now we’re not taking 3 steps back on that front

[CentreLine]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

[Not In The Know]

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I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

Great post. I’m going to keep my payments going. Anything that helps us finish as high up the table as possible is good for me.

[superfurryhibby]

Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.

[Tyler Durden]

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I suspect that RG would prefer the HSL contributions to go towards developing the facilities at East Mains.

What is that based on? Considering RG talked openly on day 1 about improving those facilities via his new investment.

[Just Alf]

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Il still be donating.

Hopefully it's rebranded as a boost the managers fund set-up

I was fine with it as it was, i would really liked to have seen it get to 25%

However ron has pumped in millions, doing what HSL couldn't.

Im fine with that, especially as fans we have 33% combined. if it was ever needed im 99.9% positive every fan would vote the same way

This is almost exactly how I see it, only reservation being the nominee holdings due to the questions around the reason they were being bought.

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[crash]

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Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.

What are your reasons for being unimpressed with share dilution.

[kevinc]

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What is that based on? Considering RG talked openly on day 1 about improving those facilities via his new investment.

Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

[FilipinoHibs]

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No chance next thing you know we are diluted below 25% and in the lap of the gods again.

If everybody takes up their rights, the percentage holdings will be unchanged.

Probably, best course of action is agree with Ron a number of new shares that can be issued and that can be taken up by HSL. Ron will want a floor on what his holding falls to so that he effectively controls and runs and makes the decisions about the club.

[tamig]

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I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

Couldn’t agree more. My contributions will continue and it’s disappointing to see so much negativity on this thread. Let’s just wait for HSLs comm coming out before speculating all sorts of nonsense. Jim said last night the message would be positive - maybe Ron has gifted HSL enough shares to takes us above the magic number 😀

[Stuart93]

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Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

We already support the club financially. Would be a little cheeky to ask supporters to dig even deeper for an academy that is part of his vision for the club. Some supporters are fed up of cash getting ploughed into infrastructure

[Heisenberg]

HSL money going into this new facility instead of player budget going forwards then?

[tamig]

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HSL money going into this new facility instead of player budget going forwards then?

There’s no hard evidence of that at all. Only one posters interpretation. Lets wait for the statement.

[Tyler Durden]

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There’s no hard evidence of that at all. Only one posters interpretation. Lets wait for the statement.

100%.

[Tyler Durden]

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Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

Was it explicit that the contribution from fans should be over and above attending games and buying merch?

Not trying to interrogate you here, just conscious that people can come away from a meeting with different interpretations of what was said/meant