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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    There's reasonable evidence that David Cameron tried to influence the makers of Outlander to delay its release date prior to the 2014 referendum, so lets not pretend that politicians and businesses who have their own political view don't appreciate the dangers or influence of films and the like which might encourage folk to bend to a particular political view or bolster already held views.

    Even though I don't think there's anything remotely political behind what Cineworld have done its hardly surprising that given form like that regarding TV and cinema folk might take the view that ideology rather than commercialism could have been behind the decision. That assertion is almost certainly wrong, but given stuff like the make up of the question time audience etc its hardly as laughable a notion as you make out, or surprising that folk jump to conclusions.

    What is just as amusing to me is your belittling of the guy you quoted and the sheer delight you are taking in jumping on this to paint nationalists as a load of paranoid crackpots. I attended the AUOB march in Galashiels recently and the article covering it in the local paper was accompanied by a picture of a man and woman in the sort of attire which folk like you would have delighted in laughing at … they were the epitome of a cartoonists idea of eccentric Scottish nationalists … but they were two people and for everybody like them in the 5000 turnout there was a hundred like me, just ordinary men and women showing support for what they believe in without feeling the need to dress like extras from Kidnapped or Braveheart.

    The publishers of the local paper aren't exactly known for their support for independence and it wasn't lost on us that choosing that picture out of the hundreds they took that day wasn't exactly calculated to show the march in a good light. This belittling of the nationalist movement as being entirely populated by crackpots, eccentrics and at its worst xenophobes is a fairly common feature of the tactics used by unionists against it and IMO your last paragraph is in that ball park. That's far from the reality, but the fact that unionists cant or refuse to accept that is no bad thing because you are going to laugh yourselves straight into a UK minus Scotland.
    Of the 5000 that attended how many would you say go to every rally? Id take a guess at well over 60% of people go to every rally it's mostly all the same faces at them.

    I work besides someone who goes and every time there is a rally her and the family go to it. She is a lovely woman to be fair but she also gives the impression it's a bit of a piss up. They go to many pubs in the area and get the faces painted wave flags have a gid bevy and do the march.

    It does not sound a bad day to be fair but I do think these marches are for a sizable proportion a big day out for folk who want independece and like a bevy. Some of the chat in the office is a bit like Fifes- everything is a unionist conspiracy and I fully expect to go in today and be asked what I think about Cineworld not showing the film.

    She was also put in charge of heading up the activities for the summer party where colleagues from all over the UK come to our office to have a bbq and play fun games and drink. She has decided this year that it will be team event Scotland Vs England and thats a what it is. The MD said at the all hands meeting he thought we were all one company together but obviously not, I suspect this idea was born out of trying In someway to further the independent cause.

    How many threads are started on independence that put across a positive point compared to a message of injustice or grievances?

    If a positive case was made for independence I'd be more inclined to listen to it but threads about how terrible it is that Cineworld is not showing Robert the Bruce is a real turn of for me and just goes to reinforce the view that the independence movement is filled with paranoid grievance hunters just looking out for any thing, anything at all where they can say see look how oppressed we are.

    I'm laughing at it because how else should I react?
    Last edited by Slavers; 01-07-2019 at 05:42 AM.


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  3. #32
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    As I say I’d be probable to vote yes a second time around but my god is the Scottish nationalist movement it’s own worst enemy sometimes.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  4. #33
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  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    I stand by what I said. If David Cameron was able to twist the arm of Sony not to release Outlander in the UK until after the referendum, then how can anybody confidently determine that there hasn't been political influence here as well? Perhaps they attempted to approach other cinemas as well but were turned away? Nobody can really claim to know one way or another.

    People are quick to shout "conspiracy nut" at people who dare to ask questions, then completely ignore/forget the times when it turns out that they were indeed correct in their "conspiracies" all along.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    I stand by what I said. If David Cameron was able to twist the arm of Sony not to release Outlander in the UK until after the referendum, then how can anybody confidently determine that there hasn't been political influence here as well? Perhaps they attempted to approach other cinemas as well but were turned away? Nobody can really claim to know one way or another.

    People are quick to shout "conspiracy nut" at people who dare to ask questions, then completely ignore/forget the times when it turns out that they were indeed correct in their "conspiracies" all along.
    Did this actually happen though? I'm aware Sony execs met with various UK diplomats/ministers at the time, a lot was discussed including setting up a studio and further investment in the UK film industry (most probably identifying tax relief). The email that was released as part of the Sony Co hack mentioned a discussion was to have been held but the content of that discussion remains unknown.
    The reason I remember the facts of the day is because my wife wanted to watch the series, family in the US had raved about it but it wasn't available here to watch our stream. In the end I downloaded it,,,,, thought it was all a bit meh if I'm honest!

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Did this actually happen though? I'm aware Sony execs met with various UK diplomats/ministers at the time, a lot was discussed including setting up a studio and further investment in the UK film industry (most probably identifying tax relief). The email that was released as part of the Sony Co hack mentioned a discussion was to have been held but the content of that discussion remains unknown.
    The reason I remember the facts of the day is because my wife wanted to watch the series, family in the US had raved about it but it wasn't available here to watch our stream. In the end I downloaded it,,,,, thought it was all a bit meh if I'm honest!
    The email specifically stated that it was about discussing the release date of the series opener. Now why do you suppose a company like Sony would need to convene with David Cameron over the release date of their series? Is it standard practice in the UK for major studios to discuss the date release of TV series with the UK Prime Minister?

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    The email specifically stated that it was about discussing the release date of the series opener. Now why do you suppose a company like Sony would need to convene with David Cameron over the release date of their series? Is it standard practice in the UK for major studios to discuss the date release of TV series with the UK Prime Minister?
    Do you have a copy of the email text to back this fact up?
    From links on this thread;
    "The email states [sic]: “From a SPE [Sony Pictures Entertainment] perspective, your meeting with Prime Minister Cameron on Monday will likely focus on our overall investment in the U.K. - with special emphasis on...the importance of OUTLANDER (i.e. particularly vis-à-vis the political issues in the U.K. as Scotland contemplates detachment this Fall).”


    Will likely focus on our overall investment,,,,

    Re the "political issues", I've no idea what Sony thought the issue was, gerrymandering? Regardless, their internal email suggests they were the ones reaching out to the ministers, there's nothing to say it was the other way around.
    Last edited by speedy_gonzales; 01-07-2019 at 10:38 AM.

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member Beefster's Avatar
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    Vue aren’t showing Apollo 11 in Scotland. I had to go to Cineworld to see it (in IMAX btw, ‘twas awesome). I kind of feel like I’ve missed a trick by attending another cinema and not starting a Twitter campaign against Vue instead.

  10. #39
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Of the 5000 that attended how many would you say go to every rally? Id take a guess at well over 60% of people go to every rally it's mostly all the same faces at them.

    I work besides someone who goes and every time there is a rally her and the family go to it. She is a lovely woman to be fair but she also gives the impression it's a bit of a piss up. They go to many pubs in the area and get the faces painted wave flags have a gid bevy and do the march.

    It does not sound a bad day to be fair but I do think these marches are for a sizable proportion a big day out for folk who want independece and like a bevy. Some of the chat in the office is a bit like Fifes- everything is a unionist conspiracy and I fully expect to go in today and be asked what I think about Cineworld not showing the film.

    She was also put in charge of heading up the activities for the summer party where colleagues from all over the UK come to our office to have a bbq and play fun games and drink. She has decided this year that it will be team event Scotland Vs England and thats a what it is. The MD said at the all hands meeting he thought we were all one company together but obviously not, I suspect this idea was born out of trying In someway to further the independent cause.

    How many threads are started on independence that put across a positive point compared to a message of injustice or grievances?

    If a positive case was made for independence I'd be more inclined to listen to it but threads about how terrible it is that Cineworld is not showing Robert the Bruce is a real turn of for me and just goes to reinforce the view that the independence movement is filled with paranoid grievance hunters just looking out for any thing, anything at all where they can say see look how oppressed we are.

    I'm laughing at it because how else should I react?
    Your first bit is absolutely correct, there are many people who go to more than one AUOB rally every year and a few who go to them all. But at the one I attended I met a good few people I know personally who I didn't even know were into Scottish independence to the extent they were willing to show public support for it … especially in the region of Scotland least known for its independence leanings. But when you see the numbers turning out for the big city marches its certain the vast majority aren't regulars.

    As for your work colleague, that's one person. My walking football team has a number of English members and nobody in 4 years has ever suggested we play Scotland v England … does that make us all unionists?

    As it is I agree with your last paragraph and so does every independence blogger worth the name. To be annoyed that a film you want to see might not be getting shown in your local cinema is reasonable, to immediately spring to the conclusion that the decision is politically motivated without taking into account simple economics … IE that the chain didn't see it as a UK wide money maker … isn't.

    The strategy that will be followed by the independence movement in the next few years will be to make a positive case for independence … have a look at any indy blog or website lately and that's the drum being banged, its not enough just to say why not being part of the UK is a good thing, its to say why being an independent country is a positive thing for Scotland.

    Personally I have to admit that folk dressed like William Wallace or Bonnie Prince Charlie or in Tartan Army like attire shouting 'freeeedom' at AUOB rallies or anywhere else for that matter get on my sodding tits and so do folk who go off half cocked on subjects like this film. The independence movement has worked hard to be taken seriously over the last few decades and to distance itself from the paramilitary wing of the white heather club and delusional romantics full of anti English / UK paranoia ideologists it was perceived to be populated by.

    It has been very successful in that aim IMO … but the few who still cling to the cartoon image are the ones whose pictures and opinions make it into the staunchly unionist main stream media because they suit their agenda perfectly and provides ammunition for people who love to ridicule us as they do. But as I alluded to in my previous post, it would be a bad idea for unionists to actually put all of their eggs into that particular basket … the evidence is pretty overwhelming that while they flog the dead horse of trying to turn it into a joke the independence movement is starting to ride its one towards the winning line.

    I'll finish by saying that whether or not the decision over this film was political is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things … the evidence that the BBC and especially the written press has an anti independence agenda which the BBC tries to hide and not very successfully and the press doesn't try to hide at all is pretty overwhelming.

  11. #40
    Some cineworld venues are now going to be showing the film.

  12. #41
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    I'll bet the film is absolute murder. No one with a real life to concern themselves with and occupy their time and energy cares about this. At all.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    I'll bet the film is absolute murder. No one with a real life to concern themselves with and occupy their time and energy cares about this. At all.
    It's really not. It's just being voted down by trolls at the moment who have never even seen it.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8000908...?ref_=tt_ov_rt

  14. #43
    Cineworld can show whatever the f*** they want as far as I'm concerned. But Braveheart was quality cinema

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member hibbybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    It's really not. It's just being voted down by trolls at the moment who have never even seen it.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8000908...?ref_=tt_ov_rt
    I wasn't impressed - probably the worst film I've seen for a while. 3/10 from me!

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbybob View Post
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    I wasn't impressed - probably the worst film I've seen for a while. 3/10 from me!
    1/10 from this guy, who totally went to see it of course!


  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    It's really not. It's just being voted down by trolls at the moment who have never even seen it.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8000908...?ref_=tt_ov_rt
    Apart from the fact that the critics reviews top out at 3/5 and a number of them give it 1/5 and 2/5.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rob..._bruce/reviews

    So in other words at best an average film, at worst a crock o crap.

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