When Burke got Kamberid

[WhileTheChief..]

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I can't pretend to be a huge fan of a number of posts or indeed your posting style however I agree with this.

I think the hibs.net exaggeration during Lennon's tenure is as much to blame as Lennon himself for the polarised threads we still have on him today. There were literally comments every single week, for a spell, insisting he was the best manager we've ever had and should enjoy him while we can. There were posters put-down for suggesting otherwise.

Lennon did alright. And to begin with he definitely improved my opinion on him as a person.

He is my favourite ever Hibs manager, of course I’ll stick up for him for his time with us.

The bile being spewed about him since he left is ridiculous. Folk were kinder about Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood etc etc.

[BILLYHIBS]

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We were doing fine and in control of that game before an uncharacteristic mistake by Lewis let them into score - we were creaking after that up until half time though. Second half we were the better team and lost to a goal from a free kick that never was, scored by a guy who should have been suspended. Not one of our best performances of the season, but we definitely did show up that night.

Interestingly the way we set up at the start of that game is exactly how many people expect us to be, formation-wise, under PH next season. His lineup in the win at Tynie recent was possibly the same formation too?

Post match Lennon blamed Hanlon for losing the flight of the ball in the air and other senior pros?

Not like him!

[The 90+2]

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He is my favourite ever Hibs manager, of course I’ll stick up for him for his time with us.

The bile being spewed about him since he left is ridiculous. Folk were kinder about Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood etc etc.

There’s not much bile, just people sharing the opinion they are glad he left based on a good few things.

[The 90+2]

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We were doing fine and in control of that game before an uncharacteristic mistake by Lewis let them into score - we were creaking after that up until half time though. Second half we were the better team and lost to a goal from a free kick that never was, scored by a guy who should have been suspended. Not one of our best performances of the season, but we definitely did show up that night.

Interestingly the way we set up at the start of that game is exactly how many people expect us to be, formation-wise, under PH next season. His lineup in the win at Tynie recent was possibly the same formation too?

We changed formation for some unknown reason and where ***** that night against a piss poor hearts team when it was all to play for and they had sod all. Once again we reverted to battling tactics instead of playing our own game which was successful in many games prior to that evening.

[truehibernian]

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I remember being crucified on here for saying his Tynecastle meltdown was embarrassing. Absolutely hounded for it

Which one ? For me the cracks widened before, during, and after the 2-1 defeat at the end of last season (2-1 game, Flo penalty). His demeanour before the game was unsettling and players like SDG were decidedly dispirited. Half time his behaviour in the dressing room (at Tynie) was erratic to say the least, something which Hearts would have easily heard and been lifted by. At the end when he did the '17 points' and cupping the ears may have been seen by some as a GIRUY but for me the players were fed up looking and unimpressed by his behaviour.

That said I've seen the really nice and positive side of Neil Lennon at events, a good public speaker and nice guy away from the pitch - but he is certainly someone who is Jekyll and Hyde. He's ultra competitive and has high demands and expectations - but you have to be able to temper it and match expectations with realism. Something he was failing to do and by publicly calling out players and demeaning them it was the beginning of the end for him at Hibs.

One main difference I've noticed on the touchline (between NL and PH) is that Hecky coaches throughout the game - makes sure players understand and know their role, gives instruction, and more importantly gives positive feedback. Lennon never coached a game and was content barking orders and littering them with swear words. That can be (and was) counter-productive. You can tell PH has more eye for detail as a game progresses and makes subtle changes without unsettling players or making them unsure of their roles. He also listens to his whole backroom team - I always got the impression the likes of GM, AC and the analysts were intimidated by NL.

[BSEJVT]

I think the debate over Lennon's tenure is so polarised as Lennon is a love him or hate him type of guy himself.

My take on it would be probably 60/40 positive in his favour but he definitely left at the right time as very little of that 60% positivity came in his least season so the numbers were definitely moving against him.

We weren't brilliant to watch in the Championship but the end justified the means as make no mistake about it, the club from top to bottom were under huge pressure to get out of that league that season and failing to do so would have set us back massively.

Even without the post Christmas huge improvement I would have been happy enough with our first season back until the Tynecastle game, losing the match wasn't the issue, him losing it was a worrying portent of things to come

Apart from a purple patch at the start of his last season, the signs weren't good, baffling team selections and a complete inability to change the shape of the team and a really, really disjointed signing policy had me concerned.

I think he suffered from being disliked when he arrived to winning folk over to going back to being disliked but more strongly than before, his constant Celtic love ins made it difficult for me to fully warm to him even at the best of times.

I am glad he was our manager and enjoyed the ride until the last few months, but he had passed his sell by date when he left and it was in everyone (including his) interests that he left when he did.

I think he will royally **** up being Celtic Manager again and it will all end badly.

For nearly the last decade anyone of us could have managed Celtic and won most of what they have. but truth be told they are full of slightly better than average players many of whom are aging and they are now bereft of the real talent that gave them the edge on the few occasions it was previously required

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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And also some of the worst.

That five month spell in the 17/18 season was fantastic. The rest was absolutely dismal.

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And also some of the worst.

That five month spell in the 17/18 season was fantastic. The rest was absolutely dismal.

That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

[calumhibee1]

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Burke should come on loan to us.

He's bumped around big clubs, has moved for a few big transfer fees yet never really played that much football.

Burke would be better served going somewhere where he has a good man manager, a crowd behind him and somewhere where he can play every week to get confidence and experience.

It would never happen, as everyone to do with him and his club will convince him that he needs to be playing at a higher level for a bigger club, even though that will only lead to him playing handfuls of games (most off the bench) and his career dwindling away to nothing (whilst he'll still probably move for a few big transfer fees yet).

The McGinn factor, a player of similar ability. We were the right club for him at that stage in his career.

Yup. Like you said it’s got no chance of happening, but his development would be much better served being the main man in front of 15k a week at Hibs and scoring 15-20 a season than going on loan to another Championship side and having more of the same.

[ancient hibee]

Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.

[calumhibee1]

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That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Dylan, SJM and Cummings were all top players under Stubbs, let’s not make out like Lennon took them for average to what they ended up. Boyle did improve though.

[calumhibee1]

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Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.

The WBA complaint seems to be very vague, there’s no suggestion it’s because he didn’t get picked. I highly doubt they’d be complaining as they are purely because he didn’t always get a game.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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Dylan, SJM and Cummings were all top players under Stubbs, let’s not make out like Lennon took them for average to what they ended up. Boyle did improve though.

Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?

[Stevie Reid]

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We changed formation for some unknown reason and where ***** that night against a piss poor hearts team when it was all to play for and they had sod all. Once again we reverted to battling tactics instead of playing our own game which was successful in many games prior to that evening.

It was an average Hearts team (with a couple of big game performers) who had only lost once at Tynecastle all season, who had plenty to play for - it was a derby at home and they wanted to stop us having any hope of finishing 2nd. We didn't revert to battling tactics, we knocked the ball around well until we went behind - then Hearts swamped us. Sometimes you don't get much choice at Tynie, as the first half an hour of the most recent derby there demonstrated.

[Northernhibee]

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That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Cummings, McGinn, McGeouch and to a lesser extent Boyle were already excellent players to begin with, and although Rocky and Ambrose arrive, so did big Dave, Swanson, Whittaker, Brian Graham, Miquel Nelom, Mavrias, Brian McLean, Neil Eardley, Chris Humphrey, Rherras and more. Throwing a lot at the wall springs to mind.

We scored one point more than the previous season having played less games through the whole season, with an easier league that didn't contain Hearts or Rangers and had seen the beginning of the downturn of Falkirk as well.

Neil Lennon inherited McGeouch, McGinn, Cummings, Hanlon, Porteous, McGregor, Boyle, Gray, Stevenson who largely happen to either have left the club or are still the most important members of our squad (Marciano aside).

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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Cummings, McGinn, McGeouch and to a lesser extent Boyle were already excellent players to begin with, and although Rocky and Ambrose arrive, so did big Dave, Swanson, Whittaker, Brian Graham, Miquel Nelom, Mavrias, Brian McLean, Neil Eardley, Chris Humphrey, Rherras and more. Throwing a lot at the wall springs to mind.

We scored one point more than the previous season having played less games through the whole season, with an easier league that didn't contain Hearts or Rangers and had seen the beginning of the downturn of Falkirk as well.

Neil Lennon inherited McGeouch, McGinn, Cummings, Hanlon, Porteous, McGregor, Boyle, Gray, Stevenson who largely happen to either have left the club or are still the most important members of our squad (Marciano aside).

It wasn’t dismal though was it?

[The 90+2]

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That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Second half of the season was good. Perhaps there’s a trend there.

[Northernhibee]

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It wasn’t dismal though was it?

I was as unenthused as I had been for several years in that first season, thought we were playing boring football and unbalanced in the first half of the second season and last season was Butcher-esque.

Other than six months of his tenure, I thought it was. His repeated celebrating of draws (including one of them being because the other team had a goal disallowed in injury time) was moronic and his "boy band" comment about a team who in the previous season who had overcome hurdle after hurdle was misjudged and his comments about leaving the club after the Tynecastle derby were downright disrespectful.

[Northernhibee]

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Second half of the season was good. Perhaps there’s a trend there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E...h_Championship

Look at the sheer amount of draws. Not sure I agree with you on that one.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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I was as unenthused as I had been for several years in that first season, thought we were playing boring football and unbalanced in the first half of the second season and last season was Butcher-esque.

Other than six months of his tenure, I thought it was. His repeated celebrating of draws (including one of them being because the other team had a goal disallowed in injury time) was moronic and his "boy band" comment about a team who in the previous season who had overcome hurdle after hurdle was misjudged and his comments about leaving the club after the Tynecastle derby were downright disrespectful.

We had just won the Scottish Cup, I was absolutely loving life as a Hibs fan and probably the most “enthused” I’ve ever been. Different strokes though!

[Northernhibee]

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We had just won the Scottish Cup, I was absolutely loving life as a Hibs fan and probably the most “enthused” I’ve ever been. Different strokes though!

I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

[The 90+2]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E...h_Championship

Look at the sheer amount of draws. Not sure I agree with you on that one.

In terms of no pressure on finishing top from about Feb then 😁

[The 90+2]

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It was an average Hearts team (with a couple of big game performers) who had only lost once at Tynecastle all season, who had plenty to play for - it was a derby at home and they wanted to stop us having any hope of finishing 2nd. We didn't revert to battling tactics, we knocked the ball around well until we went behind - then Hearts swamped us. Sometimes you don't get much choice at Tynie, as the first half an hour of the most recent derby there demonstrated.

We should have finished over 20 points ahead of them, that’s how poor they where. Why we went one up top and dropped Jamie MAC still annoys me that night.

[Stevie Reid]

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I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

He didn't say that about the SC winning team.

[Stevie Reid]

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We should have finished over 20 points ahead of them, that’s how poor they where. Why we went one up top and dropped Jamie MAC still annoys me that night.

He did exactly what PH did in the last derby at Tynecastle.

Amazing that you can make 'only' finishing 18 points ahead of Hearts in our first season back a negative now as well.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

For balance I think it’s fair to point out Stubbsys Hibs team also had some pretty “dismal” results in the Championship, lost to Falkirk at Hampden In the Scottish Semis, and got beat by Ross County in a League Cup final.

Imagine if Lennons Hibs side had given us those results.

By the way I’ve not mentioned our best run in Europe for many, many years this past season (yet)

[J-C]

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Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.

Looking at the WBA statement, it's fairly clear it's a dig at Lennon and not that he wasn't getting picked.

[J-C]

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Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?

Only after he took advice from Snodgrass and seen the same specialist he did which sorted out his hip problems, paid for out his own pocket BTW.

[J-C]

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For balance I think it’s fair to point out Stubbsys Hibs team also had some pretty “dismal” results in the Championship, lost to Falkirk at Hampden In the Scottish Semis, and got beat by Ross County in a League Cup final.

Imagine if Lennons Hibs side had given us those results.

By the way I’ve not mentioned our best run in Europe for many, many years this past season (yet)

Not many will argue there about Stubbs but lets not paint Lennon as some type of god like manager who was all conquering.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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Not many will argue there about Stubbs but lets not paint Lennon as some type of god like manager who was all conquering.

I’m not trying to, read my posts. The point I’m making is it wasn’t dismal, anything but.

[calumhibee1]

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Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?

Dylan was fit more often during Lennons second season due to going and seeing a specialist and resolving his injury issues. It stands to reason he’d be more effective and consistent because he played more. That wasn’t down to Lennon, that was down to Dylan and a recommendation from Snodgrass.

SJM was only at Hibs for one season before NL came in. He was outstanding that season. He was outstanding under NL. I’m not sure there was some huge improvement under NL of McGinn, he was destined for the top no matter what.

Some of it was a good time to be a Hibs fan. However plodding through the Championship wasn’t glorious in my eyes, it was effective and that’s about it. Neither was the first half of our first season back up, again, it was decent, but I wouldn’t call it glorious and other than a few results this season was far from glorious under NL. The only period of his tenure id say was glorious was the 12 or so game run when we gained Allan, Flo and JMac. Everything else was effective/decent or in the latter stages absolutely god awful. Let’s remember that his awful run at the end of his tenure was actually longer than his great run in our first season back up.