On Paper

[Shanksaidno]

We have the basis of a good team ... 451

Rocky
Gray / James
Jackson
Porteous
Stevenson
Boyle
Hallberg
Allan
Vela
Middleton
Kamberi

Plus McGregor, Hanlon, Mackie, Whittaker, m a l l a n, Horgan, Fraser, Doidge, Shaw

So why are things so dodgy just now? Is it that the injuries have upset things or is Hecky not firing the team up to go for it with high energy and aggression. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but really don't understand why things are the way they are ... dare I say we have too many football players in the team and not the right mix with hard running tough tackling bardstewards who impose themselves on the opposition.
Hecky has to come up with answers soon... the game v the ****bos will tell a story methinks .... let's hope it turns to the right page

[Shanksaidno]

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We have the basis of a good team ... 451

Rocky
Gray / James
Jackson
Porteous
Stevenson
Boyle
Hallberg
Allan
Vela
Middleton
Kamberi

Plus McGregor, Hanlon, Mackie, Whittaker, m a l l a n, Horgan, Fraser, Doidge, Shaw

So why are things so dodgy just now? Is it that the injuries have upset things or is Hecky not firing the team up to go for it with high energy and aggression. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but really don't understand why things are the way they are ... dare I say we have too many football players in the team and not the right mix with hard running tough tackling bardstewards who impose themselves on the opposition.
Hecky has to come up with answers soon... the game v the ****bos will tell a story methinks .... let's hope it turns to the right page

Thought I would say ... good post ... I agree with every word!!

[007]

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We have the basis of a good team ... 451

Rocky
Gray / James
Jackson
Porteous
Stevenson
Boyle
Hallberg
Allan
Vela
Middleton
Kamberi

Plus McGregor, Hanlon, Mackie, Whittaker, m a l l a n, Horgan, Fraser, Doidge, Shaw

So why are things so dodgy just now? Is it that the injuries have upset things or is Hecky not firing the team up to go for it with high energy and aggression. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but really don't understand why things are the way they are ... dare I say we have too many football players in the team and not the right mix with hard running tough tackling bardstewards who impose themselves on the opposition.
Hecky has to come up with answers soon... the game v the ****bos will tell a story methinks .... let's hope it turns to the right page

Too many people already writing off the team and the manager, that's why it seems dodgy.

[Wilson]

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Too many people already writing off the team and the manager, that's why it seems dodgy.

That is certainly not it. People who are writing off the team and the manager do so because things seem dodgy. Not the other way around.

[IberianHibernian]

" Basis of a good team ". Good by what standards ? Maybe good enough to be 4th if avoiding injuries and finding consistent form but much more likely to be struggling to make the top 6 . Too soon to know how good new players will be over the season but most of our other players have been inconsistent ( Kamberi for example ) , not played much in last year ( Allan ) , had injuries or are wrong side of 30 . Players being rated on their form of 2016 or 2017 rather than of this year . Some good players yes but not with enough quality to really dominate any of the other teams in the league as we saw on Saturday .

[Since452]

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are all struggling at the moment. Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen will be 3rd, 4th and 5th in no particular order. We were around 10 seconds from winning our 5th home game in a row and 6th win in 8 games. We're in a transitional period like it or not but doing ok all things considered

[The Leith Dutch]

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We have the basis of a good team ... 451

Rocky
Gray / James
Jackson
Porteous
Stevenson
Boyle
Hallberg
Allan
Vela
Middleton
Kamberi

Plus McGregor, Hanlon, Mackie, Whittaker, m a l l a n, Horgan, Fraser, Doidge, Shaw

So why are things so dodgy just now? Is it that the injuries have upset things or is Hecky not firing the team up to go for it with high energy and aggression. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but really don't understand why things are the way they are ... dare I say we have too many football players in the team and not the right mix with hard running tough tackling bardstewards who impose themselves on the opposition.
Hecky has to come up with answers soon... the game v the ****bos will tell a story methinks .... let's hope it turns to the right page

I think on paper the team is decent enough and while I might change one of the centre backs that's pretty much who I'd be picking (assuming Halberg matches his pedigree).

The big difference is that it's got a proper midfield (and it's got the main playmaker I presume centrally?)
The question is can PH see that or is he going to stubbornly stick with a flawed midfield approach.

As for the bit in bold I'm not sure I'd make it quite so blunt as footballers vs hardmen but we definitely can't keep playing with 5 players who only really make the cut for their attacking skills.
That's not a balanced team and if he keeps playing it the results are unlikely to change.

[007]

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That is certainly not it. People who are writing off the team and the manager do so because things seem dodgy. Not the other way around.

Just because things aren't as good as we'd like them to be right now doesn't mean they should be written off this soon. The grass isn't always greener. My opinion is that to get rid of the manager now would do more harm than good. Not just in the short term but in the long term too.

[The_Horde]

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Too many people already writing off the team and the manager, that's why it seems dodgy.

Then again you have people putting players in our best 11 that they haven't even seen play yet.

[#2 Double Tap]

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Just because things aren't as good as we'd like them to be right now doesn't mean they should be written off this soon. The grass isn't always greener. My opinion is that to get rid of the manager now would do more harm than good. Not just in the short term but in the long term too.

Nor is the grass always brown, look at the performances, we have been honking for ages.

Give him more time, its too soon to punt the manager etc... seems to be the go to defense of heckingbottom, he has been here for months, there is no improvement, it has progressively gotten worse, including our worst result in years.

Being afraid of change is a very negative mindset, humans are prone to remember the bad things and forget the good times because bad changes like 'butcher' emotionally scar.

When the fans going to the games turn on you, it is over and the vast majority turned on him last saturday. Not changing him quickly will likely cause a larger harm because the negativity will grow and then it will really start to effect the players.

[Percy Vere]

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We have the basis of a good team ... 451

Rocky
Gray / James
Jackson
Porteous
Stevenson
Boyle
Hallberg
Allan
Vela
Middleton
Kamberi

Plus McGregor, Hanlon, Mackie, Whittaker, m a l l a n, Horgan, Fraser, Doidge, Shaw

So why are things so dodgy just now? Is it that the injuries have upset things or is Hecky not firing the team up to go for it with high energy and aggression. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but really don't understand why things are the way they are ... dare I say we have too many football players in the team and not the right mix with hard running tough tackling bardstewards who impose themselves on the opposition.
Hecky has to come up with answers soon... the game v the ****bos will tell a story methinks .... let's hope it turns to the right page

Absolutely right
Too many doomsayers putting the team under undue pressure. And the manager. There are injuries, he’s played Gray, Stevenson and Allan when less than 100% fit. I reckon it’ll come good.

[The 90+2]

How many times will Hecky play that as starting 11? It’s roll of the dice territory.

[The 90+2]

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Absolutely right
Too many doomsayers putting the team under undue pressure. And the manager. There are injuries, he’s played Gray, Stevenson and Allan when less than 100% fit. I reckon it’ll come good.

Amazing playing a unfit Allan in front of a unfit Gray. Talented **** that is.

[Hibs4185]

When he said in his interview that the players were nervous or on edge and the crowd didn't help, I wondered if the players are so focused on his tactics and formations that they are uncomfortable and terrified of making mistakes.

Whereas managers like Mowbray are more about having tactics but asking the players to play with confidence and express themselves.

[Unseen work]

Completely agree, we have quality in our team. The main issue is getting the right balance and best fit starting 11, once we do we will see a more consistent showing and us pick up the pace.

We are all hoping Hallberg can fill the void in midfield, hopefully he is upto the standard and expectation.

The biggest thing for me is the high press, and for me the issue is not the strikers or midfield, it’s the defence and their lack of pace.

We have a very slow defence, which doesn’t trust itself with balls over the top as they will get done for pace and as such back off and drop which invites other teams on and makes massive gaps in our midfield which they exploit. People on here constantly say Mallan doesn’t have legs, he’s actually a very fit guy and gets around the pitch well, the problem is he is not fast and again has a massive area to cover as the defence drop so deep.

If we had pace at the back we could hold a high line and really make the game congested, that way the midfielders would have less of an area to buzz about and press and you would see us pressing players much quicker and with more effect.

An an example of a team that are brilliant at it is Liverpool. They have great pace at the pack in Virgil, Robertson and Alexander Arnold who can all recover well if the ball is over the top. But they press the game high up the park, allowing Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho to get right on top of the opposition and make the game really congested.

Im not saying we can be the same level as Liverpool, but the principles are the same.

[#2 Double Tap]

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Completely agree, we have quality in our team. The main issue is getting the right balance and best fit starting 11, once we do we will see a more consistent showing and us pick up the pace.

We are all hoping Hallberg can fill the void in midfield, hopefully he is upto the standard and expectation.

The biggest thing for me is the high press, and for me the issue is not the strikers or midfield, it’s the defence and their lack of pace.

We have a very slow defence, which doesn’t trust itself with balls over the top as they will get done for pace and as such back off and drop which invites other teams on and makes massive gaps in our midfield which they exploit. People on here constantly say Mallan doesn’t have legs, he’s actually a very fit guy and gets around the pitch well, the problem is he is not fast and again has a massive area to cover as the defence drop so deep.

If we had pace at the back we could hold a high line and really make the game congested, that way the midfielders would have less of an area to buzz about and press and you would see us pressing players much quicker and with more effect.

An an example of a team that are brilliant at it is Liverpool. They have great pace at the pack in Virgil, Robertson and Alexander Arnold who can all recover well if the ball is over the top. But they press the game high up the park, allowing Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho to get right on top of the opposition and make the game really congested.

Im not saying we can be the same level as Liverpool, but the principles are the same.

bold bit.
we dont have midfielders like that, and i am not talking skill level, i am talking type.

[ancient hibee]

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When he said in his interview that the players were nervous or on edge and the crowd didn't help, I wondered if the players are so focused on his tactics and formations that they are uncomfortable and terrified of making mistakes.

Whereas managers like Mowbray are more about having tactics but asking the players to play with confidence and express themselves.

As he chops and changes every week the players will become even more on edge.

[Unseen work]

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bold bit.
we dont have midfielders like that, and i am not talking skill level, i am talking type.

You're right, my point was more how much easier the defence pressing the game high makes there job of winning the ball back.

You can look at Celtic under Rodgers or Guardiolas teams, none are filled with big brutes in midfield or even at times ones who buzz about all over the park. It’s about the shape, giving yourself a chance and knowing when to go.

It forces the opposition into mistakes and makes them uncomfortable, at the moment we’re giving teams far too much time in the midfield because there’s such a big gap.

[ancient hibee]

Every club in the league will now be thinking that they have free run of the pitch between their penalty area and ours.On Saturday it was like a game of statues except we never moved.

[#2 Double Tap]

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You're right, my point was more how much easier the defence pressing the game high makes there job of winning the ball back.

You can look at Celtic under Rodgers or Guardiolas teams, none are filled with big brutes in midfield or even at times ones who buzz about all over the park. It’s about the shape, giving yourself a chance and knowing when to go.

It forces the opposition into mistakes and makes them uncomfortable, at the moment we’re giving teams far too much time in the midfield because there’s such a big gap.

I know what you are saying, but no one can play like man city, cause the players need to be mentally and technically so advanced, dont mean to sound patronizing!

I struggle to see who our ball winner is? I know people will say on paper it looks like josh vela, but he aint showed it in the matches i have seen.
Then mallan next to him, he has some good attributes no doubting that, but marking or tackling aint them, he can't play the "fernandinho role" or the "scot brown" one because of that.
Alan is obviously skillful, and in comparison to man city midfield he would be our answer to david silva.

We can't play a high press because imo we lack speed and the energy levels in key positions particularly CM and wing backs. That is the managers fault I guess, he signed the players.

I feel like i am rambling so I am just gonna leave it at that and probly get ravaged for my thoughts hahaha.

[brianmc]

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Every club in the league will now be thinking that they have free run of the pitch between their penalty area and ours.On Saturday it was like a game of statues except we never moved.

Sad to say that the teams who think that are likely to be 100% correct.

[PISTOL1875]

Yeh we have the basis of a good team , a very good team but we are at our best when we are on the front foot , playing at a high tempo..

Sadly , we are doing the exact opposite of that under Heckingbottom....

[Hi Heid Yin]

Rocky.................Quality keeper, prone to the odd gaff
Gray ..................is in his last season as a first pick..now showing his age and too many injuries are preventing him getting fully fit
James.................Yet to impact at SPL level
Jackson...............Yet to impact at SPL level
Porteous.............Quality, but uncertain when he will be fully fit and back to his best
Stevenson...........is in his last season as a first pick..now showing his age, with his body finally giving way to knocks that he used to shrug off
Boyle..................Quality, but uncertain when he will be fully fit and back to his best
Hallberg..............Unproven
Allan..................Quality..end of.
Vela...................Yet to impact at SPL level
Middleton............Yet to prove himself
Kamberi..............Quality on his day

McGregor.............sadly no longer commands the box as he once did.. Age has caught up with him
Hanlon................Another player whose best days are behind him
Mackie................Promising but yet to convince ,
Whittaker.............Slow, with his best days well behind him, at best he is okay-ish when he is not under pressure from snapping opposition players
m a l l a n............A quality striker of the ball, but inconsistent, timid and ineffective this season
Horgan................Reminds me of Murray, an all-action dynamo, but too frequently a headless chicken
Fraser..................Yet to prove himself
Doidge................appears out of his depth at SPL level
Shaw...................appears to have lost his way, but a natural finisher when given the chance
Slivka.................been given every opportunity under successive managers, but sadly just not good enough to command regular slot

What is glaring from this list is the lack of gutsy, physical and vocal leaders
Hecking bottom does not have a voice on the park, and is failing big time to come up with a team that is balanced, consistent and fluid.
He actually doesn't appear to know how to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal, and this can be seen in our sluggish, disjointed and inept displays.
The defence is powder-puff and easily penetrated...11 goals conceded in 3 games tells its own story.
The midfield is a hotch potch of individuals playing as individuals, and unable to work as a unit and impose itself on the opposition for any sustained period.
As for our strikers, if we lose Kamberi we are up the creek as we have no obvious replacement.

[The Leith Dutch]

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Then again you have people putting players in our best 11 that they haven't even seen play yet.

Assuming you're referencing Halberg:

Being fair to the OP he's chosen to put a player capped at every level by a
nation with decent international pedigree in the side.

Add to that he's putting in two proper Centre Midfielders - something I think most
people feel we need - from the pool of three senior players (Vela, Slivka and Halberg)
that we have on the books that have the skillset for that role.

In fact, given that the manager appears to have some doubts about Slivka I'd not be
at all surprised if Halberg goes straight into the starting XI when match fit.

The main reason he wouldn't is PH persisting with 5 attacking players and one CM.

None of this means Halberg is a world class player and we'll judge him by his performances
but certainly not a ridiculous suggestion and one I'd suggest makes a lot of sense.

[Cataplana]

On paper we do look good.

The problem is we play most of our games on grass.

[#2 Double Tap]

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On paper we do look good.

The problem is we play most of our games on grass.

don't forget sometimes plastic.

dohh "most of"

[Onceinawhile]

We need to be more than the sum of our parts. Unfortunately we aren't, possibly we're less than the sum of our parts.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Rocky.................Quality keeper, prone to the odd gaff
Gray ..................is in his last season as a first pick..now showing his age and too many injuries are preventing him getting fully fit
James.................Yet to impact at SPL level
Jackson...............Yet to impact at SPL level
Porteous.............Quality, but uncertain when he will be fully fit and back to his best
Stevenson...........is in his last season as a first pick..now showing his age, with his body finally giving way to knocks that he used to shrug off
Boyle..................Quality, but uncertain when he will be fully fit and back to his best
Hallberg..............Unproven
Allan..................Quality..end of.
Vela...................Yet to impact at SPL level
Middleton............Yet to prove himself
Kamberi..............Quality on his day

McGregor.............sadly no longer commands the box as he once did.. Age has caught up with him
Hanlon................Another player whose best days are behind him
Mackie................Promising but yet to convince ,
Whittaker.............Slow, with his best days well behind him, at best he is okay-ish when he is not under pressure from snapping opposition players
m a l l a n............A quality striker of the ball, but inconsistent, timid and ineffective this season
Horgan................Reminds me of Murray, an all-action dynamo, but too frequently a headless chicken
Fraser..................Yet to prove himself
Doidge................appears out of his depth at SPL level
Shaw...................appears to have lost his way, but a natural finisher when given the chance
Slivka.................been given every opportunity under successive managers, but sadly just not good enough to command regular slot

What is glaring from this list is the lack of gutsy, physical and vocal leaders
Hecking bottom does not have a voice on the park, and is failing big time to come up with a team that is balanced, consistent and fluid.
He actually doesn't appear to know how to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal, and this can be seen in our sluggish, disjointed and inept displays.
The defence is powder-puff and easily penetrated...11 goals conceded in 3 games tells its own story.
The midfield is a hotch potch of individuals playing as individuals, and unable to work as a unit and impose itself on the opposition for any sustained period.
As for our strikers, if we lose Kamberi we are up the creek as we have no obvious replacement.

Lewis got one injury, he isn't finished and will be first choice for a while yet.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Lewis got one injury, he isn't finished and will be first choice for a while yet.

Been written off so many times before

He’ll be back

Legend

[One Day Soon]

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We need to be more than the sum of our parts. Unfortunately we aren't, possibly we're less than the sum of our parts.

It is pretty astonishing, but true. The question is, why?

I'm for giving PH more time, even though I suspect he's going to fail. If he can't improve how we play he won't last but it may be that injuries and bedding-in time will bring that improvement. If it doesn't, a new manager will still have plenty of time with what remains of the season to steer us through.

However each game that passes with us playing disjointed, slow and apparently purposeless football is a day closer to his departure regardless of results. If PH wants to turn all this around he needs to start with the style and energy of play - everything else, including results, can follow.