hibs.net Messageboard

 

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 112
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The utter bedlam of your team scoring a goal has gone, and just for that reason i'd bin it. I no longer cheer when a goals scored, my first thought is will it be allowed.

    Goal line tech is all we need, and i used to be all for VAR.
    Agreed. Just think if we'd had to sit and wait on a VAR decision on 21/6/16 - and then it was disallowed (I'm sure they'd have done their best to find something wrong).

    Another drawback is that linesmen are no longer flagging for marginal offside because VAR will make the decision for them. That means that play goes on, the attacking team scores/someone is brought down in the box/someone gets injured and then play is brought back because there was an offside at the outset but the linesman didn't flag.

    I think VAR has a place, but it's currently being over-used. IMO it should be used only where the referee has made a clear error, or for off the ball incidents and dives. Rather than analysing whether a player's shoulder is offside (as happened to Waghorn in the FA Cup) the VAR should simply consider whether the decision was blatantly wrong or not - one replay should usually be enough IMO.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #62
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    48
    Posts
    22,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Sioux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Consider a situation where its 0 : 0. hertz get a corner against Hibs in the 92nd minute. The ball's cleared and Hibs break out and 8 seconds later score at the other end.

    Ref checks the corner and then decides that there was a shove somewhere in the penalty area at the corner. He gives hertz a penalty and they score. There's still debate after the game as to whether that decision was right or wrong.

    I take it some would walk out the ground happy that so called fair play has prevailed? Never in a million years!

    Pitch invasion!!!!!!

    Some of the decisions that have been made defy belief. Especially hand ball. We now have a situation where from next season if a ball touches the arm or hand it will be a free kick/penalty. From now on any forward in the penalty area can, and will, deliberately aim to play the ball onto the arm/hand of an opponent and the result will be a penalty. There's no rule that disallows a forward to act in that manner.

    So, even when VAR is asked to consider that type of decision, it was always inconclusive because its a subjective call. To avoid that they change the rule so the only criteria is: did the ball touch the hand or arm? VAR in these circumstances has been a total failure and has now moved on from correcting glaring referee errors of judgement to looking at anything that might impact on a critical passage of play (goal, penalty claim etc). Even then, the decision are down to the subjective view of a referee after he's looked at video evidence from a number of angles.

    For me all that VAR has done is highlight the fact that there are different interpretations on any incident where a human has to make a decision. VAR has not changed that at all. And in its current form, never will.
    I agree completely with all of that, and add into the mix the important element that everything always looks different slowed down to almost freeze frame.

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member worcesterhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Worcester, Sassanachland
    Posts
    2,444
    Just to sum up...VAR is utter jobby.

  5. #64
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Corstorphine
    Posts
    11,614
    Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
    Keep the game as simple as possible.

  6. #65
    Coaching Staff
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Back in the town
    Age
    56
    Posts
    9,666
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
    Keep the game as simple as possible.
    And work on improving the standard of refereeing with the money saved.

  7. #66
    Testimonial Due JohnM1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,038
    Gamer IDs

    PSN ID: johnmac1875
    If we're going to use VAR fine. But don't use it until the referees are adequately trained in using it.

    It's an utter joke that it's been rolled out just now with so many issues. Think it's having a negative effect.

  8. #67
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    "Galactidos!"
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Sioux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Some of the decisions that have been made defy belief. Especially hand ball. We now have a situation where from next season if a ball touches the arm or hand it will be a free kick/penalty. From now on any forward in the penalty area can, and will, deliberately aim to play the ball onto the arm/hand of an opponent and the result will be a penalty. There's no rule that disallows a forward to act in that manner.

    So, even when VAR is asked to consider that type of decision, it was always inconclusive because its a subjective call. To avoid that they change the rule so the only criteria is: did the ball touch the hand or arm? VAR in these circumstances has been a total failure and has now moved on from correcting glaring referee errors of judgement to looking at anything that might impact on a critical passage of play (goal, penalty claim etc). Even then, the decision are down to the subjective view of a referee after he's looked at video evidence from a number of angles.
    I'm maybe misunderstanding you, but that is not the rule re: handball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sioux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    For me all that VAR has done is highlight the fact that there are different interpretations on any incident where a human has to make a decision. VAR has not changed that at all. And in its current form, never will.
    I think this hits the nail on the head for me. VAR is a spotlight on both the standard of officiating and the creation/drafting of the rules. It's been a massive talking point in the Women's World Cup because a) it's the first major tournament where some of these rules are being implemented and b) the standard of officiating is so poor.

    I like VAR as a concept, because, in theory, it should make the game more fair. The problem is that, at the moment, it's application is so inconsistent that it's actually being perceived as creating unfairness. I haven't seen it explained anywhere, but I don't understand how we got to the stage of using VAR to review the GK's position at penalty kicks - there's no scope for that based on IFAB's own VAR principles, so why is it happening?

    Also, on the general point of poor officiating, the England v Cameroon match yesterday saw a lot of attention on VAR for England's second goal and Cameroon's disallowed goal, but I think both decisions were right. However, I think England's first and third goal were worth talking about; for me, it was never a backpass for the first goal and, for the third, the corner wasn't taken from inside corner area.

  9. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sioux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Consider a situation where its 0 : 0. hertz get a corner against Hibs in the 92nd minute. The ball's cleared and Hibs break out and 8 seconds later score at the other end.

    Ref checks the corner and then decides that there was a shove somewhere in the penalty area at the corner. He gives hertz a penalty and they score. There's still debate after the game as to whether that decision was right or wrong.

    I take it some would walk out the ground happy that so called fair play has prevailed? Never in a million years!
    And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

    You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

    TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

    Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If we're going to use VAR fine. But don't use it until the referees are adequately trained in using it.

    It's an utter joke that it's been rolled out just now with so many issues. Think it's having a negative effect.
    It has be be tried out somewhere. I was surprised they brought it in for last year's World Cup but it actually went well. I would argue that a minor competition like the women's world cup is the perfect place to trial the system and make any needed changes.

    The problem has been that the standard of referees has been as bad as the standard of football in this tournament, the VAR itself has been fine.

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1,138
    Quote Originally Posted by worcesterhibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Just to sum up...VAR is utter jobby.

    As the song goes - VAR what is it good for?

  12. #71
    The Rugby version is much better and less comicated. FIFA have overthought the process. Maybe there should be an NFL style 3 challenge rule where the bench can ask for a review.

  13. #72
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Lothian
    Posts
    8,510
    The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.

  14. #73
    First Team Breakthrough nickwhibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South Queensferry
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
    Keep the game as simple as possible.
    Agreed 👍

  15. #74
    @hibs.net private member Carheenlea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    49
    Posts
    6,748
    With most of the decisions referees have to make being matter opinion, VAR can help with decision making but ultimately it’s still matter of opinion and arguments will continue to rage on over decisions.
    Most people appear to be happy to have goal line technology, which largely is fact based, but VAR on the whole has been detrimental to the sport rather than an improvement.

  16. #75
    Was never for it in the first place and it's even worse than what I expected now it's being implemented.

    Slowly but surely the gap that sets our great game apart from every other sh*t sport is being eroded.

    Yes it's likely here to stay, but not because it's been a success. Those that made such a song and dance about how important it was to introduce VAR and invest so much money and effort into it, will be too stubborn to acknowledge that it's actually p1sh.

    But it is p1sh.

  17. #76
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    10,791
    It should work but it hasn't really.

    I don't really know how you can watch a game of football on TV with a beer in hand, see all of the replays and come up with a fairly good idea of which decisions are right and wrong yet it seems to be so difficult for VAR and qualified referees to get it right.

    VAR itself isn't so much the problem but I think there are increasingly contentious areas regarding certain rules, such as handball.

    I also think that referees feel obliged to change their minds when seeing the VAR, rather than stick to their guns if they look at the screen and don't see a penalty/ red card/ handball etc.

  18. #77
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Bellevue
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,456
    What’s the phrase? “Don’t hate the player, hate the game”. In this case it is don’t hate the game, hate the player. It is crap referees that is at fault with VAR. The FIFA version of VAR makes it worse (so in this sense it is partly the game). They shouldn’t have the match referee view the incident. It should be more like the English version where a separate official (or team of them) makes the decision. That doesn’t negate the problem that a lot of refs are incompetent/corrupt. A third element comes into the FIFA version... self-protectionism.

  19. #78
    Coaching Staff Jones28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Airth
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,731
    The concept is a positive, but the way it is being used just isn't working for whatever reason. I would argue that we've been screaming for help for referees for difficult decisions but this is still too much left to the ref and there are too many regulations with it.

  20. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.

    This.

  21. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.
    I think that's unfair as a generalisation. Referees only get one look from one angle at any incident whereas TV viewers (and the VAR) get to see it from several angles, in slow motion with no crowd noise to influence them. The fact that players cheat as a matter of course - not just diving, but claiming for throw-ins, corners etc when they know they were last to touch the ball doesn't help.

    VAR should in general be used to assist refs, but not to overrule them or make decisions for them. It's the watering down of iconic moments that I object to.

  22. #81
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lanark/Palo Alto
    Age
    33
    Posts
    15,322
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: sjmcg1304
    The game needs technology, especially at the top level where marginal decisions aren't just the trigger of debates in pubs, households and online: these decisions are now worth a substantial amount of money to clubs at the top chasing titles and European berths, and those at the bottom fighting to keep their hands on a piece of the pie.

    Goal-line technology alone isn't sufficient. It's great for stopping situations like Leigh or Ollie, but let's go back to THAT cup final. VAR would have awarded them a free kick and not a penalty. I'm not saying it changes the outcome, but it has an impact.

    The handball rule is going to be a nonsense with or without VAR. That's where the quality of officials will come into play. Dealing with offsides is a situation where it SHOULD shine, but the way it's being implemented is causing all sorts of bother. The lady in the England vs Cameroon game yesterday was probably a stud offside. Again, that's perhaps a critique of the rule rather than the technology, but there's no "benefit of the doubt to the attacker" any longer.

    The use of it to identify penalties in the box is valuable. The use of it at penalties to monitor the position of the goalkeeper's feet is not. The use of it to determine red cards that were missed by the officials is fine by me. But that still leaves some subjective decision making to be undertaken by the official team.

    I think we need technology in the game - I just don't think the VAR exhibition during the World Cup is necessarily winning over any doubters.

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Blackpool
    Age
    59
    Posts
    50,390
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    VAR has never been used in a game involving Hibs so how have you stopped celebrating? Unless your clapping at the TV I guess?
    Watching the last international tournament, that was the beginning, the Euro's were spoilt when game after game you never knew when a goal was going to be given.

    Then the Champions league final, never a penalty in my opinion, and the constant reference to VAR looking at incidents has ruined the game FOR ME.

    Not sure if you only celebrate goals when Hibs are playing, but i can still get excited when other teams are playing?

  24. #83
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    10,791
    Nothing to do with VAR but I don't properly celebrate a Hibs goal until I've glanced at the linesman and referee to see if the goal has been given.

    That is unless there has been absolutely nothing contentious in the build up to the goal.

  25. #84
    I know the day is coming soon where my coupon for a life-changing sum is burst 5 minutes after being up. That will be a very sad and sore one.

    I've lost coupons every other way though so why not

  26. #85
    Promising Youngster Risboro Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Princes Risborough England
    Posts
    95
    I hate it!
    I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable

  27. #86
    Testimonial Due Baader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    43
    Posts
    2,404
    Was all for it but the way it's being implemented is all wrong and it's spoiling the game.

    Sort it or just get rid. Goalline technology works well.

  28. #87
    Testimonial Due berwickhibee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    berwick upon tweed
    Age
    47
    Posts
    1,380
    Fast becoming a farce. Please bin it.

  29. #88
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sleepy Hollow
    Posts
    6,703
    After watching England v Cameroon last night I could feel myself falling out of love with the game

  30. #89
    @hibs.net private member worcesterhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Worcester, Sassanachland
    Posts
    2,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Risboro Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I hate it!
    I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable
    This exactly. It does my nut in when people say that we have to change the rules of football and the way the game is played because there is so much money at stake...tough..don't invest in football if you are scared of losing money. Sport should reflect life and life is generally unfair at times. Good people have bad stuff happen to them through no fault of their own, but with courage, grit and determination you overcome those struggles. Sport at it's best reflects that and teams pick themselves up from a poor decision and go again.

    I really wish someone would start an online petition to stop VAR from being introduced to Scottish football. I would sign.

  31. #90
    Coaching Staff Sammy7nil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,572
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Seven Nil PSN ID: 0 7 Wii Code: 01011973 07
    Quote Originally Posted by mayo hibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

    You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

    TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

    Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved