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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    I actually felt sorry for the teacher as having viewed the clip, he obviously feels he had to uphold what he perceived to be 'policy' or he would be in big trouble.

    I'm happy to put my head above the parapet and say that self-ID is ***** and if you have a dick you are a man.
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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    I'd tend to agree that there's got to be more to it than the video shows, you don't get suspended for having an opinion. Even a technically wrong one as discussed above.

    One thing that struck me is that the student came across as a bit of a know it all and wasn't scared to be extremely disrespectful with his "your wasting my time" comments. If that's how he acted when he knew he was filming himself then I'd assume his actions in the classroom were more severe.
    Mon the Hibs.

  4. #33
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Even if he wasn't suspended purely for stating there are only two genders and it was more to do with the fact he recorded his teacher without consent, he has still been removed from the classroom for stating an opinion and I find it troubling that a student in Scotland is removed from a classroom in such circumstances.

    If there is compelling evidence to suggest that the opinion being expressed by the student is factually incorrect then surely the correct course of action that the school should take, particularly when dealing with 17 year olds who are pretty much adults, is to hold an open and honest discussion about the issue and challenge their opinions and beliefs within the confines of the classroom amongst their peers.

    I'm assuming this discussion took place during a Biology lesson which is why it was brought up in the first place, rather than it being brought up randomly during a Maths or PE lesson? If it was a Biology lesson, I would have thought the teacher would have welcomed such a discussion.

    Either way, I find it really concerning that school pupils in Scotland are being, at the very least, removed from the classroom for simply stating their opinion. Like with so many other issues these days, it seems like you're only allowed an opinion on topics like this if you agree with the party line which in itself is a really troubling road to go down.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

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  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    Even if he wasn't suspended purely for stating there are only two genders and it was more to do with the fact he recorded his teacher without consent, he has still been removed from the classroom for stating an opinion and I find it troubling that a student in Scotland is removed from a classroom in such circumstances.

    If there is compelling evidence to suggest that the opinion being expressed by the student is factually incorrect then surely the correct course of action that the school should take, particularly when dealing with 17 year olds who are pretty much adults, is to hold an open and honest discussion about the issue and challenge their opinions and beliefs within the confines of the classroom amongst their peers.

    I'm assuming this discussion took place during a Biology lesson which is why it was brought up in the first place, rather than it being brought up randomly during a Maths or PE lesson? If it was a Biology lesson, I would have thought the teacher would have welcomed such a discussion.

    Either way, I find it really concerning that school pupils in Scotland are being, at the very least, removed from the classroom for simply stating their opinion. Like with so many other issues these days, it seems like you're only allowed an opinion on topics like this if you agree with the party line which in itself is a really troubling road to go down.
    You went from saying "even if he wasn't suspended purely for stating there are only two genders" to "I find it really concerning that school pupils in Scotland are being removed from the classroom for simply stating their opinion".

    Pupils are not removed from their classrooms in Scotland for simply stating their opinion. However, students are expected to conduct themselves in a certain manner. He could have made his opinion respectfully and left it at that, but he didn't.

    I remember back in my own primary school days, I got into a row with a teacher over a picture of a galaxy. The teacher stated that it was a picture of our own Milkyway galaxy. When I pointed out that it was in fact Andromeda as it would be impossible for us to have a full scale image of our own galaxy. I got into an argument with the teacher which ultimately led to me being flung out of the classroom and into detention.

    I was factually correct. However, I wasn't being punished for stating my opinion, I was being punished for getting mouthy with the teacher over it when I should have just left it after making my initial point.

    These things happen. It's nothing new. Sometimes teachers are wrong and students are correct.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member My_Wife_Camille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Gender and sex are not the same. The former is a social consttuct, the latter is what he learned in biology.
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  7. #36
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    You went from saying "even if he wasn't suspended purely for stating there are only two genders" to "I find it really concerning that school pupils in Scotland are being removed from the classroom for simply stating their opinion".

    Pupils are not removed from their classrooms in Scotland for simply stating their opinion. However, students are expected to conduct themselves in a certain manner. He could have made his opinion respectfully and left it at that, but he didn't.

    I remember back in my own primary school days, I got into a row with a teacher over a picture of a galaxy. The teacher stated that it was a picture of our own Milkyway galaxy. When I pointed out that it was in fact Andromeda as it would be impossible for us to have a full scale image of our own galaxy. I got into an argument with the teacher which ultimately led to me being flung out of the classroom and into detention.

    I was factually correct. However, I wasn't being punished for stating my opinion, I was being punished for getting mouthy with the teacher over it when I should have just left it after making my initial point.

    These things happen. It's nothing new. Sometimes teachers are wrong and students are correct.
    You surely understand that the removal from the classroom and the suspension from school were two separate incidents.

    He was removed from the classroom for stating his opinion, that's a fact. You only need to watch the video clip to realise that. He hadn't recorded anything at that point so he wasn't removed for that.

    It's up for debate as to whether the suspension, which came afterwards, happened purely because of his opinion or because he had recorded his conversation with his teacher (or a mixture of the two).

    You say that he didn't leave it at just stating his opinion respectfully. How do you know this? Were you privy to the discussion that took place in the classroom? During the recorded clip, the teacher makes no accusations about HOW the student's opinion was put across, just that it was actually made at all and how it didn't fit into the school's official position on this topic.

    If the school suspended him purely for recording his teacher without permission and then posting it online then that's fine I don't actually have any issue with that. I have my doubts about that being the case though and yes I do find it troubling.
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  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    You surely understand that the removal from the classroom and the suspension from school were two separate incidents.

    He was removed from the classroom for stating his opinion, that's a fact. You only need to watch the video clip to realise that. He hadn't recorded anything at that point so he wasn't removed for that.

    It's up for debate as to whether the suspension, which came afterwards, happened purely because of his opinion or because he had recorded his conversation with his teacher (or a mixture of the two).

    You say that he didn't leave it at just stating his opinion respectfully. How do you know this? Were you privy to the discussion that took place in the classroom? During the recorded clip, the teacher makes no accusations about HOW the student's opinion was put across, just that it was actually made at all and how it didn't fit into the school's official position on this topic.

    If the school suspended him purely for recording his teacher without permission and then posting it online then that's fine I don't actually have any issue with that. I have my doubts about that being the case though and yes I do find it troubling.
    You said that students in Scotland were being "suspended" simply for stating their opinion. That's what you said in your previous post. That's now been changed to "removed from the classroom for stating opinion". You then follow it up by saying "fact".

    How do we know that's the facts of the matter? When, as you said, he didn't have a camera at that point to record the incident. He could have been being disrespectful, or using foul language for all we know. So it's not "fact", because there's nothing to go on. We don't know exactly why he was sent out of the classroom. We do know that he brought a camera into school and started using it without prior permission, which ultimately led to the suspension. He wasn't suspended before using the camera.

  9. #38
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    You said that students in Scotland were being "suspended" simply for stating their opinion. That's what you said in your previous post. That's now been changed to "removed from the classroom for stating opinion". You then follow it up by saying "fact".

    How do we know that's the facts of the matter? When, as you said, he didn't have a camera at that point to record the incident. He could have been being disrespectful, or using foul language for all we know. So it's not "fact", because there's nothing to go on. We don't know exactly why he was sent out of the classroom. We do know that he brought a camera into school and started using it without prior permission, which ultimately led to the suspension. He wasn't suspended before using the camera.
    I'm not sure if you're misquoting me on purpose or if you are just genuinely struggling to understand what I'm saying but that is not what I have said at all.

    For the avoidance of doubt, let's revisit what I have actually said so far instead of making things up;

    Even if he wasn't suspended purely for stating there are only two genders and it was more to do with the fact he recorded his teacher without consent, he has still been removed from the classroom for stating an opinion and I find it troubling that a student in Scotland is removed from a classroom in such circumstances.
    He was removed from the classroom for stating his opinion, that's a fact.
    Again please understand that there were two things that happened here and a clear distinction has to be made between them. First he was removed from the classroom (at this point he hadn't recorded anything so he could not have been removed from the classroom over the publishing of the recording of the conversation that he had with his teacher.

    After this recorded conversation had taken place, he then put it online. It was then that he received his suspension.

    I have not said at any point (and will repeat this again just so there are no further misunderstandings of what I've said) that he was definitely suspended because of what he said. I have stated twice in my previous posts that he was removed from the classroom for stating his opinion, that is all. The suspension that followed is open for debate as to whether it was because of his views, because of the recording and publishing of the conversation with the teacher, without the teacher's consent or a mixture of the two.

    I'm fully aware of the fact that he wasn't suspended before using the camera. You have stated that he could have been disrespectful and could have been using foul language. Of course he could have and if that's the case then the school has every right to suspend students who engage in such behaviour. However what I will say is, during the conversation that he has recorded with his teacher, the teacher makes no accusations of this nature. I would have thought that this would have been brought up by the teacher if the student had been guilty of the things you are suggesting. I would also have expected the Council to have made reference to this in their statement, which they did not do.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

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  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Can we stop buying into the idea that he was suspended, simply for saying that? Clearly that wasn't the case here.
    Sounds like he was on exam study leave anyway. Probably told not to come in and just study at home.

    That translates to three week suspension.

    J

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